Finds and Deals - Leather Jacket Edition

[JMax]

Suede Taubers

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-19...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

[Marc mndt]

Far as I am concerned jackets under a grand are not collectible they are wearables.

(1) what does price have to do with collectability?

All of my vintage jackets are worth far less than a grand but I'm sure I own a couple of pieces that leather jacket enthousiasts would love to add to their collection.

(2) If you consider jackets that are under a grand wearables, what are 1k+ jackets to you? Not for wearing?

I don't think people who buy a 1k+ Buco buy the jacket to hang it on the wall as a display piece. They buy it to wear it. That's why vintage jackets in larger sizes go for more money than a the ones that could fit a 12 year old kid.

 

[jonbuilder]

(1) what does price have to do with collectability?

All of my vintage jackets are worth far less than a grand but I'm sure I own a couple of pieces that leather jacket enthousiasts would love to add to their collection.

(2) If you consider jackets that are under a grand wearables, what are 1k+ jackets to you? Not for wearing?

I don't think people who buy a 1k+ Buco buy the jacket to hang it on the wall as a display piece. They buy it to wear it. That's why vintage jackets in larger sizes go for more money than a the ones that could fit a 12 year old kid.

It's a language barrier. I was referring to the comment that a jacket with an unknown maker or replacement zip is of small value to a collector. My attitude is I am not buying vintage jackets as an investment I am buying them to wear and experience. Buying a higher price vintage jacket over one grand, for example, I am more concerned about a resale when I decide to move the jacket to make room so I can experience other vintage jackets.
The most experienced and dedicated to historic jacket research I know is Terry who buys jackets that he can not wear. Terry is a collector and researcher.

 

[jonbuilder]

Grais

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-19...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
View attachment 344886

Nice just a tease when this gems show up in small sizes

 

[Marc mndt]

I was referring to the comment that a jacket with an unknown maker is of small value to a collector.

What kind of value are you referring to, market value? I consider myself a collector, personally I don't care about market value. Market value is driven by Rin Tanaca's book and all the repro makers who copy the designs featured in that book. Some of my best pieces don't have a maker's label. They're also not featured in the book. Their market value is probably lower than a Buco, but who cares. Not me. I care about the quality of a jacket, pattern materials and construction techniques.

 

[Monitor]

What kind of value are you referring to, market value? I consider myself a collector, personally I don't care about market value. Market value is driven by Rin Tanaca's book and all the repro makers who copy the designs featured in that book. Some of my best pieces don't have a maker's label. They're also not featured in the book. Their market value is probably lower than a Buco, but who cares. Not me. I care about the quality of a jacket, pattern materials and construction techniques.

Agreed. Currently established market value of certain leather jackets is completely baseless and driven exclusively by random turn of events, rather than based upon tangible factors such as quality of making, material or indeed, scarcity.

Henceforth we constantly "discover" what appear to be very high quality, "no name" jackets, listed at very low prices. Annex Apparel constructed what I believe is one of the finest leather jackets I have ever handled, yet despite the fact that anyone who had handled their product, readily agrees with my assessment, people'd still list it at $100-$150 because it is not a Buco. Nevermind the fact that Buco isn't 1/10th of AA quality.

Recently, I had received a several PM's by members who are utterly impressed with Harro jackets, having had to handle the jackets in order to understand what I've been talking about for years. Yes, they're that much better than Brooks. It's hard to even compare the two how superior Harro is.

Rin Tanaka's book did as much damage as good.

 

[Coriu]

Agreed. Currently established market value of certain leather jackets is completely baseless and driven exclusively by random turn of events, rather than based upon tangible factors such as quality of making, material or indeed, scarcity.

Henceforth we constantly "discover" what appear to be very high quality, "no name" jackets, listed at very low prices. Annex Apparel constructed what I believe is one of the finest leather jackets I have ever handled, yet despite the fact that anyone who had handled their product, readily agrees with my assessment, people'd still list it at $100-$150 because it is not a Buco. Nevermind the fact that Buco isn't 1/10th of AA quality.

Recently, I had received a several PM's by members who are utterly impressed with Harro jackets, having had to handle the jackets in order to understand what I've been talking about for years. Yes, they're that much better than Brooks. It's hard to even compare the two how superior Harro is.

Rin Tanaka's book did as much damage as good.

There's an aspect of leather jacket collecting that is somewhat challenging...we don't know the individual who actually made the jacket. An aspect of collecting(in general terms) that many find intriguing is knowing the person who created something. It also adds to the value and to the collectibility. Simply because we know the manufacturer, we don't know if the person who sewed it was a master or an apprentice, do we?

 

[Monitor]

Dominator. Pricey but that's how it goes.

https://www.grailed.com/listings/22922298-lewis-leathers-dominator-no-551-us-uk-42

 

[Monitor]

I love the one by Iron Hearts that I have. Same thing, only by RRL. Highly recommended.

https://www.grailed.com/listings/23...-lauren-shirt-washed-leather-western-jacket-l

 

[Claybertrand]

Cool (IMO) Schott Suede. Smaller size with a Collar you could build a shrine to......... the points are TOUCHING THE SHOULDER SEAMS............... How can you NOT LUST after this collar!?!?!?!!?!?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/4029707421...4:g:CxkAAOSw9Tpg4elI&LH_ItemCondition=10|3000

 

[Canuck Panda]

(1) what does price have to do with collectability?

All of my vintage jackets are worth far less than a grand but I'm sure I own a couple of pieces that leather jacket enthousiasts would love to add to their collection.

(2) If you consider jackets that are under a grand wearables, what are 1k+ jackets to you? Not for wearing?

I don't think people who buy a 1k+ Buco buy the jacket to hang it on the wall as a display piece. They buy it to wear it. That's why vintage jackets in larger sizes go for more money than a the ones that could fit a 12 year old kid.

It's a language barrier. I was referring to the comment that a jacket with an unknown maker or replacement zip is of small value to a collector. My attitude is I am not buying vintage jackets as an investment I am buying them to wear and experience. Buying a higher price vintage jacket over one grand, for example, I am more concerned about a resale when I decide to move the jacket to make room so I can experience other vintage jackets.
The most experienced and dedicated to historic jacket research I know is Terry who buys jackets that he can not wear. Terry is a collector and researcher.

I would also buy things that do NOT fit. Just to see what’s the fuss is all about. But I do have a price cap to control my spending for this hobby.
I always figured the resale value is a third to half at best when all is said and done. And many lower priced jackets either go to Donation bin or the work hours put into reselling it cost more than what I paid for it in the first place.
I only wish there were enough jacket folks in my town to justify some type of co op store where jackets could be shared without a lot of investment up front. Wait that’s kinda like what this place is or could be… Haha…

 

[alish]

I would buy it as goatskin. I have calf skin that looks similar, but is not often seen. The beautiful brown finish also says goat to me. As my album shows, goatskin jackets were often done in interesting shades of brown that you just don't see in other leathers of the time. The goatskin may be more responsive to colors.

I do see some finish wear on the upper arm pictured, but I don't see flaking and other forms of rot. I don't see the cracks in the collar.

Missing the original zipper is a negative. Most probably had a sunrise Talon zipper. Difficult zipper to find if you want to restore to the jacket.

View attachment 344842


It does appear to have this very limited Talon Olympic Ring Pull. These are seldom seen. The jacket below is from 1941. I would estimate this jacket to be in this time frame.

View attachment 344843

All in all a nice Vintage jacket. It would not be a daily wearer. Special occasions sounds right.

Thanks so much tmitchell59, jonbuilder and everyone else who has shared their thoughts on this jacket, and on collectable jackets in general. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your knowledge and experience, as well as opinions. So very helpful!!! Just one of the things that makes this site, and all of the forum members so great!! Thanks again!!

At this point I'm thinking that the $450 he's asking is a bit much for a jacket that doesn't really have much monetary value as a collectable, and since the jacket is old enough that it also can't be considered an everyday-wear jacket. At the same time, I like the look (the design and the leather / color) and the measurements are right for me... Will probably wait and see if he'll come down on the price after a while. I'll post here if I end up getting it at some point

Happy Fourth of July everyone! Stay safe!!

 

[Leather Walker]

Vintage patrol jacket, I can't id the maker. BIN $150 >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/304055841879

 

[Kubatu]

This Cal has relisted a couple times at $200 + shipping. Size 36L, or around that. Anyone know how difficult it would be to repair the seam issues in the arm?

 

[Claybertrand]

This Cal has relisted a couple times at $200 + shipping. Size 36L, or around that. Anyone know how difficult it would be to repair the seam issues in the arm?

Speaking in total generality here, because each tailor is different but its not necessarily the seams themselves that are the difficulty here. The issue with these types of repairs is GETTING TO THE SEAMS to repair them. In most cases this involves opening up the lining to get to the backside of the leather in the sleeve to re-stitch it. And difficult = COSTLY.

Anytime a tailor has to open up the lining, that is sorta like open heart surgery for a jacket. Its among the most costly types of repairs (Usually, the most costly wear and tear type of repair is a full jacket re-line). Now CAL may be able to do the repairs more efficiently to their own jackets---maybe they've got some tricks or maybe their jacket construction would allow for easier access to these seams. But in general, anytime you need to open up the lining to get into the repair, you're looking at a high cost repair.

I can't say how much it will run you. But if you look at most leather tailors websites or speak to them, they'll likely have a minimum for opening up the liner.

 

[Marc mndt]

Anytime a tailor has to open up the lining, that is sorta like open heart surgery for a jacket. Its among the most costly types of repairs (Usually, the most costly wear and tear type of repair is a full jacket re-line).

Why do you think it's that costly?

I recently had these elastic bands fitted to keep the gussets in place. Obviously the lining had to be opened. I was told it was it was a 15 minute job start to finish.

 

[Monitor]

Anytime a tailor has to open up the lining, that is sorta like open heart surgery for a jacket. Its among the most costly types of repairs (Usually, the most costly wear and tear type of repair is a full jacket re-line). Now CAL may be able to do the repairs more efficiently to their own jackets---maybe they've got some tricks or maybe their jacket construction would allow for easier access to these seams. But in general, anytime you need to open up the lining to get into the repair, you're looking at a high cost repair.

Sounds to me your tailor's been exaggerating a bit there to inflate the price. XD

The repair on that Cal would actually be very simple and cheap & it's done through the sleeve.
In reality, most repairs on leather jackets are done through the sleeve and on some jackets there's even a seam on the sleeve lining that's deliberately stitched facing the... Outside, I don't know how to explain any better 'cause I'm not a tailor, with an intention of being easily accessed and closed afterwards. If I'm not mistaken, this is how you finish up stitching any jacket in general.
Anyway, I'm sure @regius can shed more light on this but what you'd do in general here is flip the jacket inside-out, open the sleeve lining & restitch the busted seam. Entire repair can be done by hand and you don't necessarily need a machine to do it as you can just follow the original stitch holes but it'd of course look nicer if you did it properly. I have repaired / reinforced seams on many of the jackets that I have had that way, if I noticed the seams coming undone - Which often was the case.

 

[Claybertrand]

Why do you think it's that costly?

I recently had these elastic bands fitted to keep the gussets in place. Obviously the lining had to be opened. I was told it was it was a 15 minute job start to finish.

View attachment 345109
View attachment 345107 View attachment 345108

Sounds to me your tailor's been exaggerating a bit there to inflate the price. XD

The repair on that Cal would actually be very simple and cheap & it's done through the sleeve.
In reality, most repairs on leather jackets are done through the sleeve and on some jackets there's even a seam on the sleeve lining that's deliberately stitched facing the... Outside, I don't know how to explain any better 'cause I'm not a tailor, with an intention of being easily accessed and closed afterwards. If I'm not mistaken, this is how you finish up stitching any jacket in general.
Anyway, I'm sure @regius can shed more light on this but what you'd do in general here is flip the jacket inside-out, open the sleeve lining & restitch the busted seam. Entire repair can be done by hand and you don't necessarily need a machine to do it as you can just follow the original stitch holes but it'd of course look nicer if you did it properly. I have repaired / reinforced seams on many of the jackets that I have had that way, if I noticed the seams coming undone - Which often was the case.

I suppose I should have given more context to the word "costly". I mean relative to the likely jacket purchase price. And the reason I say its costly, is that I live in California and everything here is COSTLY!!!

Leather tailoring is unique because there aren't a lot of places that do leather jacket tailoring for heavy leather. And its drastically different in different parts of the world cost wise. Even here in the States there are clear price differences. Aero Fan got his main zipper on an Aero replaced for like $20 by an Amish leather repair shop including the zipper I believe. I have paid as much as $260 for a vintage main zipper and replacement. So this could just be a thing where Tailoring is cheaper in some areas (Europe?? Iowa???) than others (California).

Basically, in Southern California, you are looking at $20 minimum or so flat rate to comfortably ship the jacket each way unless you live driving distance to the tailor. Normal tailors are scared by thick leather like Cals have. Even Leather Tailors may charge a premium for working on heavier leathers. So if you are shipping, already you are at $40. Then there is the cost of repair. Some repairs may be easier to access than others. I would say that fix may run another $40-50 or more. Just a guess on my part admittedly.

For example, Dena at GreatLeather/LeatherCare in Illinois specializes in Vintage leather jackets and many here have had her work on their leather. She has a minimum of $15 ("$15 and up for any repair requiring opening the lining.") Extra heavy leather for zipper repairs runs much higher than for non heavy. This is all stated in their pricing information on their webpage. https://greatleather.com/restore.php#sprices

All of this to say, if I personally were to buy that jacket at its bare minimum price of $200 plus tax and shipping that pushes the jacket to $251.50. Then if you have to ship, as I would, to the tailor, using USPS Flat Rate (so I don't have to wad it up in a ball to ship it) its like, $21.00 each way. So I'm at $293 without factoring in the actual cost of the repair itself. Let's just say its $40 to repair it. Now I'm, at $333.50 and this is using a conservative buy price. That jacket has a BIN at $375.00 so it may not be there for the taking at $200 but that price is what I used for this exercise.

So in my exercise, now I'm at $333.50 fairly conservatively (we could quibble about the repair price itself I suppose but I think its fairly accurate in my area). For that price, or a bit more perhaps, you can usually find a decent Cal in better shape that doesn't need the repair. THAT is my point---the repair is relatively costly if you can find a jacket in the same price range not needing work done on it. I have seen nice Cals go in this range.

When I evaluate jackets, if its missing a main zip, that's $100. If its got bad knit cuffs and waistband that's $150 or so. If it needs re-lining its $250 and up. That is what leather tailoring costs in my area. So that's how I have to value a jacket in terms of what it will need to fix it and how much I will have to put into it to make it wearable.

Maybe the best direction for the OP would be to reach out to his local tailor---OR visit the newly established Leather Vendor Thread here in Outerwear for any references. Email the jacket photos to the Tailor and see what they say. I would also reach out to Cal directly. I think between Gwen at Cal and Dena at GreatLeather one could get a good read on repair costs. Then try to get the jacket at the lower end.

 

[JMax]

^^^ and in my experience with true vintage jackets (not a 70s or 80s jacket, but truly vintage), if one seam is open like this one the entire sleeve will/should be restitched. It’s not just a matter of stitching up the hole. A little tug and you often can open up the sleeve like a banana. Very frustrating. And I’ve had main zippers detach from the leather at the tape. The stitching disintegrated. A little poof in the air lol. If the stitching has deteriorated on the sleeve odds are it’s deteriorated in other areas too. Worse case, the entire jacket is being restitched (if you want a truly wearable jacket you can do whatever in). Figure around $250 for that, could be more- just like a reline.

Edit: But when a Cal, Windward, whatever shows up and the stitching is strong— it feels damn good.

 

[Monitor]

@Claybertrand, well, yeah, if that's how costly this sorta fix'd turn out to be there than yeah, you definitely need to weigh in whether the jacket's worth it - And it rarely is. Most I ever had to pay was $25 and that's for an entire jacket overhaul, hardware included. But anyone with whom I've been discussing repairs here on TFL told me these things cost a LOT where they are. . . I guess it's dirt cheap here because people just don't bother fixing their leather jackets since mall junk usually comes out at just about the same so leather shops have to compete.

The owner of my favorite shop told me how it's literally me and this other dude bringing in leather stuff lately and how he's switched almost entirely to textile. I won't forget, last time I went there, there was a stack of highest freaking fashion leather pants piled on the shelf, waiting to be narrowed or something. Literally a pile several thousand dollars worth on Grailed. That's what the other dude brought in. I can't believe someone'd leave a $4000 Amiri leather cargo pants with a guy that's drunk most of the day. Speaking of which, I really should take in those Bates pants since no one's buying them. Can't give up on them 70's vibes.