Finds and Deals - Leather Jacket Edition

[Blackadder]

Kind of sad people are getting more and more stuck on repro makers, which are becoming a standard of some sort for quality and looks, while true gems like AA fade away into oblivion as time goes by. This absurd notion that this or that leather offered today is "best ever", just because companies sell it for thousands...

With the onset of online shopping, I predict the public will become more and more clueless about garment quality and it will be easier to sell them on what is "quality." In the old days, one went to the store and handled garments, so one could see and feel the difference between brands. We have an entire generation coming along who only know how to buy clothing via photos.[/QUOTE]
Some truth to it but I must say I would never buy Branded or AA because of the bulky 80s vibe.
In the old days, people shop through catalogue and I don't think they can feel the quality until the item arrived. Are we not merely going back to that? There wasn't even actual photos in those catalogue. Of course it would be nice to see the items in person but people did buy all those beautiful Buco, Beck etc base on black and white drawings from catalogue.

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^ We always got the Sears and JC Penny catalogs while I was a kid, but the Sears and JC Penny stores where only a 25 minuite drive away. Most weekends, the Buick simply made the trip to town and Mom turned us loose - uh, well, not really. She helped us find what worked. As kids we bought about the cheapest thing that would fit, since we would outgrow it in 6 months anyway. But as we got older, the lessons on quality became more apparent.

Yes, I agree nothing like some good in-person handling to tell a lot more about a product. Similar to a Zoom call with an old friend, verses a face to face meeting. It can "resemble" the real thing - but it does not quite get you there.

 

[Coriu]

In the old days, people shop through catalogue and I don't think they can feel the quality until the item arrived. Are we not merely going back to that? There wasn't even actual photos in those catalogue. Of course it would be nice to see the items in person but people did buy all those beautiful Buco, Beck etc base on black and white drawings from catalogue.[/QUOTE]

Before the US sold out to overseas manufacturing, quality clothing could be found all over the place. One could order from a department store like Sears and get quality stuff. Today, one would be hard-pressed to find any clothing in a TJ Maxx or JC Penney from anywhere but China or India. In that sense, the average, younger American does not typically get exposed to quality as we on this board know it.

When I was a youngster, my family was not rich, yet my mother was able to afford to have an Italian tailor make a bespoke suit for me from English cloth. An average American family could never pull that off today. As I grew up, that suit gave me a point of reference for "quality. Today, I think a person must be much more knowledgeable about clothing if they are going to find true quality on-line, especially at a reasonable price.

 

[Coriu]

^^ We always got the Sears and JC Penny catalogs while I was a kid, but the Sears and JC Penny stores where only a 25 minuite drive away. Most weekends, the Buick simply made the trip to town and Mom turned us loose - uh, well, not really. She helped us find what worked. As kids we bought about the cheapest thing that would fit, since we would outgrow it in 6 months anyway. But as we got older, the lessons on quality became more apparent.

Yes, I agree nothing like some good in-person handling to tell a lot more about a product. Similar to a Zoom call with an old friend, verses a face to face meeting. It can "resemble" the real thing - but it does not quite get you there.

I sometimes take my 80+ year old mother to the thrift store for entertainment. She used to be a seamstress. While most people are looking at labels, she can walk down a huge rack jammed with clothing, just touching the garments, and immediately zoom in on the good stuff, despite having dementia. It's uncanny. I have found incredible stuff there and believe that of some it gets passed over because people have never seen anything like it.

 

[AeroFan_07]

^^ yes that too!

 

[TSW]

Small women's Taubers. https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m81341066308/?ref=search_results

 

[JMax]

Guidemaster 42 $325

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Guide-Mast...-/303870394485?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 

[jonbuilder]

The deal part is questionable but the find is an absolute:

https://etsy.me/39Hc9oO
View attachment 306516 View attachment 306517 View attachment 306518

true vintage getting some brotherly love

 

[Claybertrand]

^^ We always got the Sears and JC Penny catalogs while I was a kid, but the Sears and JC Penny stores where only a 25 minuite drive away. Most weekends, the Buick simply made the trip to town and Mom turned us loose - uh, well, not really. She helped us find what worked. As kids we bought about the cheapest thing that would fit, since we would outgrow it in 6 months anyway. But as we got older, the lessons on quality became more apparent.

Yes, I agree nothing like some good in-person handling to tell a lot more about a product. Similar to a Zoom call with an old friend, verses a face to face meeting. It can "resemble" the real thing - but it does not quite get you there.

Sounds SO familiar man. To hit all the dept stores, We'd go the MALL of course!!!!! Basically our local mall that we went to all the time was the Mall that they filmed Back to the Future at........the parking lot scene with the DeLorean needing to hit 88 mph and Libyans chasing Doc in a VW Van.....the scene was shot in the parking lot adjacent to the May Company store and Robinson's (the 2 later merged...) (Puente Hills Mall in Hacienda Heights for you SoCal Locals)....

Anyway, my Mom would "turn us loose" and we'd try to convince her to buy us some hip clothes. Then after our hopes were high-- we would ALWAYS somehow end up at Sears buying "Toughskins" jeans and if we were lucky, we'd mix in a stop at KMart on the way home...... Luckily for me, I was the oldest kid so I got SOME new stuff and the second oldest was my sister who also, by default of being a girl, got some new stuff too. My younger 2 brothers GOT MY OLD STUFF!!!! Which must have been quite underwhelming. Knees with iron on patches and such. I never got to get any cool stuff from Chess King!!!!!! AND the result is a sick Vintage Leather Jacket addiction.

Whenever I catch Fast Times at Ridgemont High --- which is as much as possible --- it brings me back to that early 80s "Mall Culture". My cousins all lived minutes from the Mall and they all worked there in several stores and eateries over the years. Those poor Hot Dog on a Stick girls....... had to wear such crappy uniforms and had to hand press the lemonade which looked extremely awkward and unattractive.......

Sorry to have sidetracked the thread with my Mall Musings of Yester year......

To the point of the post----I see TONS of photo adds for these odd foreign brands (usually Chinese) that KINDA look cool but also look a bit odd to my taste. Usually there is some odd badging on the items or something else that turns me off. The prices for the clothing and shoes are usually really good for what appears to be decent stuff. I have resisted buying anything because I know its cheap stuff. Buyer beware.

 

[Claybertrand]

Agreed on all points, though I'd rate AA very slightly above Branded, if for no other reason than only because of their really unique styles that for once actually do stand out. They don't just move around pockets half an inch here and there, add or remove a snap and call it a day, each one of their styles is immediately recognizable while still being very comfortable, fully functional and well designed.

And don't forget the leather they used, too. I was surprised how nice it is when I unboxed my AA trucker. I mean, hard to tell from the photos as it doesn't look spectacular but the overall combination of weight, pliability and how natural it feels and looks, really does make it stand out!

Kind of sad people are getting more and more stuck on repro makers, which are becoming a standard of some sort for quality and looks, while true gems like AA fade away into oblivion as time goes by. This absurd notion that this or that leather offered today is "best ever", just because companies sell it for thousands...

I think I'd agree with you on AA being above Branded stylewise. I was mainly categorizing them in the same tier as to their "underratedness". I think quality wise--build wise---they are also similar with AA maybe getting the edge on hide quality. Branded does have some thick hided jackets though. I think AA is certainly more ambitious design wise but I feel like they were different kinds of companies with AA focusing on MOTO and Branded doing a bit of everything. I am now on the lookout for another AA. Few and far between as they are......

 

[Claybertrand]

The deal part is questionable but the find is an absolute:

https://etsy.me/39Hc9oO
View attachment 306516 View attachment 306517 View attachment 306518

This is the at least the second and perhaps the third of these jackets I have seen in the last couple of months after NEVER seeing one before. As I recall, we Loungees ID'd this jacket as a Canadian made piece (lightning zipper) that may have come out of Montreal. There is/was one listed on eBay (could be this one) that was a smaller size and needed some work. There is another in good shape that's been listed for a few months now it seems--- the Seller has listed for like $500 and there is the one here in this thread.

I forget which member posted pics of this jacket he had and he was posing in front of an old train. Really cool pics. At any rate, cool Vintage jacket. Canadian jackets are under the radar somewhat....... in many cases these are just as cool as the American jackets of the same vintage. Lightning = Talon so the zippers were really the same also in construction/quality if not in name.

 

[Claybertrand]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schott-Caf...8:g:Y7AAAOSwLctf~flM&LH_ItemCondition=10|3000

This is NOT a 141 but its a cool 60sish Schott. Note the Arrow In Hoop zipper pulls. Offers accepted.

 

[Coriu]

In the 1950's, the median American family income was about $20 per day. This is a page from a 1955 Sears catalog. Dad could buy a FQHH leather jacket(the more expensive ones) for about 1.6 days of pay. Today, the median American family income is about $275 per day. Let's say a jacket of that same quality today would be $1000. That is 3.6 days of pay. And unlike the 50's, there's a good chance that part of that income today is being earned by mom. So, dad would have to do a sales job on mom if he wanted that jacket. And we all know how that works! My point...quality of this type has become much less accessible to the average Joe in the US. Here we are drooling over stuff that could be found in a middle class home 70 years ago. I wonder how much of the imported clothing in middle class homes today will have people drooling in the year 2090?

 

[Claybertrand]

In the 1950's, the median American family income was about $20 per day. This is a page from a 1955 Sears catalog. Dad could buy a FQHH leather jacket for about 1.6 days of pay. Today, the median American family income is about $275 per day. Let's say a jacket of that same quality today would be $1000. That is 3.6 days of pay. And unlike the 50's, there's a good chance that part of that income today is being earned by mom. So, dad would have to do a sales job on mom if he wanted that jacket. And we all know how that works! My point...quality of this type has become much less accessible to the average Joe in the US. Here we are drooling over stuff that could be found in a middle class home 70 years ago. I wonder how much of the imported clothing in middle class homes today will have people drooling in the year 2090?
View attachment 306700

I'm glad you made this salient point. I wonder if leather tailoring has simply become a lost trade for the most part thus making those who do it rarer and therefore driving their rates up. I think back in the day, more blue collar jobs made up the employment options with fewer college grads and more labor intensive manufacturing processes in all industries. Nowadays, those types of jobs are not prevalent at least, not in the U.S.

So what WAS a normal everyday job is now a Craftsman/Artisan trade. I think this may add some context to the disparity in jacket costs and normal daily income in the past vs. today. Perhaps there are fewer people wearing leather too with all these young people wearing "VEGAN LEATHER"...... (don't get me started on this BS term)

I think at the end of the day it still comes down to supply and demand. The supply of newly made high grade leather garments is fairly limited and I think the demand is not huge either. Those who desire these jackets pay the prices but its not a huge industry obviously.

We have touched on elements of this conversation in the Five Star Jackets threads discussing foreign labor rates and such.

 

[Coriu]

WB Place Cream Bomber $85BIN Looks to be in excellent condition for its age. Seller told me shoulders are 20"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324458063192?ViewItem=&item=324458063192

 

[dannyk]

This convo is interesting. Because I think it’s a lot of factors. But I also think the modern world poses the issue of too many choices. So there was always little tiny mom and pop shops even for leather jackets as we know. But there was a handful of makers of jackets or boots for that matter that had national or international reach. If there was only2-3 choices available to someone you best be producing the absolute best quality things you can be, because you’re going to lose out to your competitor. There’s offshoring jobs, marketing, politics all playing roles but I also think a lot of it now is the amount of options. There’s jackets anywhere from 50 bucks to 5,000. There’s tons of jacket options. There’s low quality, medium and high. There’s jackets and boots made across the globe now. There’s so many undercutting the other for cheaper, others going even higher in quality to differentiate themselves.

and also the disparity in economic inequality. While this isn’t the forum to discuss how to fix that and being international in makeup many different views and varying degrees of this. But I think it goes without saying the value of a dollar is not what it used to be. Costs have risen exponentially in comparisons to average worker income/share of profits. Lots of interesting points being made here.

 

[Monitor]

In the 1950's, the median American family income was about $20 per day. This is a page from a 1955 Sears catalog. Dad could buy a FQHH leather jacket for about 1.6 days of pay. Today, the median American family income is about $275 per day. Let's say a jacket of that same quality today would be $1000. That is 3.6 days of pay. And unlike the 50's, there's a good chance that part of that income today is being earned by mom. So, dad would have to do a sales job on mom if he wanted that jacket. And we all know how that works! My point...quality of this type has become much less accessible to the average Joe in the US. Here we are drooling over stuff that could be found in a middle class home 70 years ago. I wonder how much of the imported clothing in middle class homes today will have people drooling in the year 2090?
View attachment 306700

This is something I've been thinking about a lot in the past few years but couldn't figure out how to confirm so I'm glad you did. I always felt it's weird spending that much money on clothes that's supposed to, well, not look like you've spent much money in it. I don't think those guys back then ever discussed all the brands of Engineer boots they were wearing. They would talk about suits and stuff like that but I'm sure it really didn't matter when it comes to leather jackets, jeans and engineer boots.

 

[willyto]

This is the at least the second and perhaps the third of these jackets I have seen in the last couple of months after NEVER seeing one before. As I recall, we Loungees ID'd this jacket as a Canadian made piece (lightning zipper) that may have come out of Montreal. There is/was one listed on eBay (could be this one) that was a smaller size and needed some work. There is another in good shape that's been listed for a few months now it seems--- the Seller has listed for like $500 and there is the one here in this thread.

I forget which member posted pics of this jacket he had and he was posing in front of an old train. Really cool pics. At any rate, cool Vintage jacket. Canadian jackets are under the radar somewhat....... in many cases these are just as cool as the American jackets of the same vintage. Lightning = Talon so the zippers were really the same also in construction/quality if not in name.

That would be me.

I still have that jacket although is very big on me. I treasure it a bit because it was my first vintage leather jacket.

 

[JMax]

@Monitor

Chopper M

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vanson-Con...-/224337689428?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 

[Coriu]

This is something I've been thinking about a lot in the past few years but couldn't figure out how to confirm so I'm glad you did. I always felt it's weird spending that much money on clothes that's supposed to, well, not look like you've spent much money in it. I don't think those guys back then ever discussed all the brands of Engineer boots they were wearing. They would talk about suits and stuff like that but I'm sure it really didn't matter when it comes to leather jackets, jeans and engineer boots.

Other than a few suede jackets, the three jackets pictured above were all that were available in that catalog edition....it was FQHH horsehide or nothing. Imagine a "middle class" department store today in which the only jackets available are FQHH or something of that caliber. Am told the mindset of many back then was to buy things that would last a lifetime, so even Sears would offer "the best." When dad bought the leather jacket for $30 and told his wife he would never buy one again, it was believable...not today. People probably talked less because there just weren't that many choices. I remember having some wealthy friends as a kid and they got their clothes at Sears, just like me.