Finally, I can compare the Optimo with the belly beaver...

[Fedora]

I will not touch on the finer points of any fur or blend in this post as I think I have written enough for now but will of course get off here and go write for hours on any number of other subjects.

Ok, now I want to hear you expound on fur blends. I know very little, except to say that the right mixture of choice fur yields remarkable hats. If done correctly, you get the best of several worlds. Durability, looks, feel etc. When you get time, I would love to hear your thoughts on the best blends. My knowledge ends with what the original Stetson company used. European rabbit(coney), hare, muskrat, nutria and beaver. I especially like the Nutria Quality line that was offered by the original Stetson up until they sold the name in 1970. It was not a clear nutria, but a blend of probably nutria, muskrat and rabbit. Regardless, it is a nice soft fur felt that is resiliant to the elements. I owned two of these vintage hats, one now resides with my buddy Rick, and tried to get the things to shrink down so the crown height was shorter. They both started out as 6 inch open crown hats. After using all of the things known to shrink felt, I finally got the crowns down to 5 3/4, but it was not easy. Both were redyed with Rit dye. The instructions called for 140 degee dye mixture, but I literally cooked these hats for 2 hours, at 200 degrees. That was the only way I could get the bodies to shrink. I could have gotten the original 6 inches out of the hat, no problem, but I quit pulling the body over the block at 5 3/4. I have blocked bodies that once you stretched them out, they would pull back up on the block as they dried. Not these babies. Nope. The blend was perfect for not shrinking. Absolutely the most shrink resistant felt that I have seen. And, these are blends. Fedora

 

[Zane]

Panamabob, I do thank you for your compliments. I do not think any one will get me for plagerism but I am sure to write just about any thing any time as long as I know it to be true. I am sure Charlie will also appreciate your endorsement of his knowing so much about hats as well and I stand corrected about him forgetting half of what he knew then based on your endoirsing his seemingly wide knowledge as well. It is always refreshing to enjoin any lounge with such a diverse and knowledagable group and I am glad that you have read and retained so much information from the masters.

Fedora, I will try to write what tiny knowledge, that I have about fur blends tomorrow but have to shut down now. You seem to have the facttual expereience witha lot of fur and I am afraid my knowledge of the body business will fit in a thimble but, I sure will try to share what I think I know. I am expecting some neighborly help here tomorrow and I must get to bed now to get up and put in a full day with them. If they are running late I will certainly love to write more tomorrow morning. I sure hope I am not being a bore nor hogging up too much space here.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Zanech wrote
I sure hope I am not being a bore nor hogging up too much space here.

Don't worry about it Mk can always get a larger server.:cool2:

 

[Zane]

Thank you Sharptoyes, for your addressing me with dignity and by my proper screen name more times than not. Your desire for knowledge and you willingness to share it are quite an asset to any forum . I further appreciate your getting permission from Mk to allow me to post my replies and have him get further server space for this. having been studying basic computing now for past 3 years and trying to learn the ins and outs of this unique and fascinating world, I think I heard it said that server space is like storage and has to be bought . Accordingly if there is a general fund for this I will gladly contribute to Mk for this valued service he offers.

Fedora, I promised you that I would try to expound on my earlier book on fur blends. I will re iterate that I am not the expert here but again I have kept up with tends over the years and do a lot of writing and remain in contact with my old connections by postal mail so I think I still have a fair grasp of the current situation and factually it seemingly has not changed of a period of a few 100 years or not very drastically but mostly with just better equipment .

While the fur bodies we always used were typically all USA made, we still relied on the folks in Portugal and in Belgium to carrot the hair for us. Teh folks in Portugal have done it since around the 1700's and in Belgium they have been at it about as long.

The group in Portugal has went to very modern equipment while the group in Belgium has remained basically unchanged and still use buckets and old coal fired furnaces to do their drying and still maintains a tradition that creates very fine felt.

We did not buy any felts directly from either place but instead bought the treated fur that was shipped to them from American Beaver and European Hare and domestically trapped rabbit.

I would like to interject here that as so many on these forums are very much in favor of the Optimo hat company, that they may want to ask them about the Portugal company and blends as I am sure they can tell you a fair amount more than I about novelty blends and such as we always just stuck to the blends that were traditional and tried and true and never purchased any of the bodies direct from Portugal as they do but instead only got treated hair to make the bodies locally . ( for any that may choose to take this wrong or in any way other than helpful and informative), I am not speaking as a representative of any hat company as I am not and only giving general information that I feel is extremely accurate.

You may find if of interest also if they would get you a picture of the large stone they have at their entrance that was once so huge but is worn down to fraction of its original size after 100's of years of use.

Fedora, Blends are not belly beaver but properly blended treated and pounced they can be the very best hat any one would ever need. Take a look at any of the great vintage hats and or ask Art about it and I am sure you will find the blends were just super good hat material.

Now the felts you see commercially bought and produced now adays is not near as good as the felt you seen 10 years ago. The felts I have seen recently have not changed at all over the past 10 years and for that matter changed a lot of the time I have seen hats. Reason being is that they are made from same fur from same animals with same "DNA" and on same equipment and same procedures that they were made on when Luther's Dad was a pup an my entire career on knowing about hats. when you do not change processes and do not change the animal species and do not change the proportions of each fur type, then you should by all logic have same fur bodies. If that is not logical or true then Luther and Charlie have made a terrible error in judgement.

Fedora, I am hesitant to say this so directly but I really feel that the issue need to be addressed as companies have historically invented new blends and called them beaver, mink , Chinchilla, Sable and about any other name or blend you can imagine.

To be perfectly blunt it is just about marketing strategies and not about a quality fur blend. Any hatter that has been making hats for any length of time will know what good blends are and will continue to use tried and true methods and if they do not they will end up as the dodo bird and Stetson and so many other companies that have tried to reinvent he wheel to make it run smoother.

I guess it is hard to know about a lot of blends when you have seen them all and found them all less good than the ones you have always known.

I will reiterate that even the belly beaver is a blend of at least 2 belly beaver fur contents. The ones we used and I understand that GH still uses are blended from fur they send to Portugal and fur sent to Belgium. The Portugal fur is simply too fast and it has to be slowed down with the Belgium fur -- Bare in mind both furs are American trapped native beaver that is sent to them to treat and not the less expensive farm raised Argentina beaver with a some different DNA . Fedora you can get fur blends that cost as little as 12-25 for a single body and it will be real fur felt but that doesn't make it good fur felt.

We always offered and I understand they still do offer a LIFETIME guarantee on the custom hand made hats that qualified for it. They always were proud or this warranty and often times never announced it but just had it as a word of honor.

I never seen a hat come back in due to fur body failure and did do a couple of liners that came out or a sweat band that go destiched but nothing major ever. I read on some post or maybe some one said it to me not sure now that they never heard of a lifetime guarantee on a hat and yet it was and is just standard practice for any reputable hatter in my opinion. You see by the quality hats you folks find on ebay that a good hat will last a life time and should have this guarantee. If any one did not offer it then I would be in some question as to why not and what blends they were really using that prevented it. The guarantee is an unnecessary one as no quality fur body will fail over any persons natural life. On the other hand I see Midas and others offering a life guarantee on a muffler they know will fail in 5 or so years but they are hedging their bets based on the fact that Americans will not keep a car more than 3 years. When we sold a hat we expected the owner to keep it a life time and never expected any failure .

In my opinion the concept of built in obsolesce is what is driving our planet into extinction.

I told you at the begining I only knew a thimble full about fur blends and I have told you about what I know.

I have seen so many folks on here toot the horns about their favorite hatters fine customer relations and how tight they are and how they are in intimate contact with the powers that be, so I would strongly encourage those of you that I do not know so well to please contact your hatters and ask them for their take on fur blends and why they are choosing the ones they do and more importantly if they have a great fur blend at one point then why are they changing to another fur blend fairly often or ever for that matter. In 30 years of studying the hat industry , I have not seen a need to change blends and I truthfully suspicion that their motives are not to provide a more quality hat but instead to entice folks to try the latest and greatest .

I personally found the greatest and it was found a few hundred years before me and I cannot see why any one would want to try to improve on perfection. Then again I have seen men give up perfectly fine old time long term wives to seek after a newer model only to find they were trading down and not up so I guess the marketing strategies are profitable in the short term and then folks can always start a new career when they can no longer pedal their wares.

This is all just one mans opinion and I think it to be factual but I strongly encourage any one that differs to chime in here and honestly will have to assume that if any do not care to do so that they either really do not care enough to ask their hatters or realize there is validity in logic and it cannot be challenged.

My final thoughts are. If you have a hatter that you are satisfied with and like their product or service then why change to seek another. It would be like trading wives to find you had a good one to begin with.

I have found one thing in life , nothing is perfect but some things are good enough. After all you are listening to a man that wears a lite wool felt hat more than he does his beaver ones and thinks many hats by many hatters are good enough for a good many people and only a few will ever find out what a perfect hat is in a world where noting is really perfect.

Fedora, I know you have found the perfect hat as it is surly good enough but I will still encourage you to get a hold of one of them what used to be called a Million X hats and you will see that even perfection can be improved on and that a truly custom deluxe hat is a luxury that few will ever encounter.

 

[Fedora]

Don't worry about it Mk can always get a larger server

I commend you Zane. You have shown great restraint when prodded. You have been more of a gentleman here than others. I like your tact. Fedora

 

[Zane]

Fedora, You are the one to be commended with your level of respect you have so generously earned and your level of knowledge that you have so generouly shared with all that would read it and then to say even greater , your sharing your expperience with so many that so much need and love the actual reblocking and renovation service you provide.

We used to begrudgingly do restorations and typically only for customers. It was not because we choose not to help any in need but simply due to time constraints and teh actual cost in man hours it required to do this. the end result was it was never a profitable venture and one we had to ration out as if it was in the great depression.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Zane,
I owe you a apology, i know a mans name is important and i won't misspell yours again. For the life of me i don't know what i was thinking.