Field Leathers

[Observe]

Ok so here's the now discontinued brown pony vs cow vs pigment dyed shinki hh.

The pony is dyed all the way through.The cow and pigment dyed shinki have a natural flesh side. Some people call that teacore which is a term I hate.

When I think of teacore leather I think of fast aging leather. Which might be true for the pigment dyed shinki because the topcoat scratches off relatively easily.

The pigment dyed leather shows 0 color depth, whereas the pony and cow show nice color depth with a slight pull up effect.

Reddish brown: (discontinued) pony
Walnut brown : Italian cow
Chocolate brown : pigment dyed shinki
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I was put off at first when I realized the cow wasn't dyed all the way through, I though it would be similar to the pigment dyed shinki which scratches very easily, showing the yellow core. But they're quite different actually. It was a lot harder / very hard to scratch through the cow's topcoat. I think this cow leather will age beautifully with the brown fading at abrasion points instead of chipping away like the pigment dyed shinki.

I image it'll age like this Thedi cow which also has a natural flesh side. What's not to like about this!?

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I have to say I have grown weary of the teacore hullabaloo since getting into leather jackets. I used to see it as a plus, but now I'd much rather a full aniline dyed through finish. I dislike the "chipping" which occurs with pigment finishes designed to age quickly. The way CXL topcoat fades, a more subtle gradient, is how I'd prefer "teacore" to look as it gets worn.

 

[Observe]

I pre paid, nearly a year ago, for brown shinki pony hide. The guy made a name for himself, his brand, based on his brown Idaho in shinki pony hide. He is selling jackets for almost 1500$. Brown shinki leather is still widely available, as are a number of other high quality horse leathers. I didn’t pay for some shitty off label Italian cowhide. If someone is trying to kill off their brand and make everybody feel ripped off sure start using cow leather after you got the deposit and sold them a shinki horsehide jacket. And Marc dont come on some forum and try and tell me how I should or shouldn’t feel about him doing what he’s doing. It’s fu$chin shady, at best. And that cowhide looks okay but dont try telling me it’s “just as good as shinki”. It sounds ridiculous and makes you seem like some sort of field leather Shill.

I think you're putting too much stock into the hype behind certain tanneries. That being said, I agree that if you made a deposit based on a certain spec, and the details of that spec couldn't be honoured, a refund or price adjustment should be offered. I also think you should take a few breaths and relax before posting again, no need for the vitriol.

 

[Aloysius]

I pre paid, nearly a year ago, for brown shinki pony hide. The guy made a name for himself, his brand, based on his brown Idaho in shinki pony hide.

Actually, his most popular leather from the outset was the “black tea core Shinki” which is pretty much the main focus of the online Shinki cult. I say this as someone whose own order a year ago was placed for the pony hide. He discontinued it last year; you’d be welcome to cancel if you didn’t want the other leathers.

Many of Shinki’s leathers are extremely inconsistent, which makes matching impossible. I am actually grateful for Field’s attitude in discontinuing it as a result.

In contrast, Standard & Strange had a run of Shinki boots arrive in completely the wrong color and didn’t even compensate the customers. Rather, the mistake was presented as a feature.

And that cowhide looks okay but dont try telling me it’s “just as good as shinki”. It sounds ridiculous and makes you seem like some sort of field leather Shill.

The only person who comes across as a shill here is you, for Shinki. A common enough if embarrassing phase among many workwear fans, brought on by the cringeworthy marketing of stores like Standard & Strange, workwear bloggers (some of whom have grown out of it thankfully), and others.

The reality is that Shinki makes a wise range of leathers, ranging from the good to the terrible. It’s because of customers who’ve made it a buzzword that stores can get away with doing runs of boots from awful materials like Shinki shell.

 

[MrProper]

I pre paid, nearly a year ago, for brown shinki pony hide. The guy made a name for himself, his brand, based on his brown Idaho in shinki pony hide. He is selling jackets for almost 1500$. Brown shinki leather is still widely available, as are a number of other high quality horse leathers. I didn’t pay for some shitty off label Italian cowhide. If someone is trying to kill off their brand and make everybody feel ripped off sure start using cow leather after you got the deposit and sold them a shinki horsehide jacket. And Marc dont come on some forum and try and tell me how I should or shouldn’t feel about him doing what he’s doing. It’s fu$chin shady, at best. And that cowhide looks okay but dont try telling me it’s “just as good as shinki”. It sounds ridiculous and makes you seem like some sort of field leather Shill.

Shinki is completely overrated. When I look at my Italian cow compared to my Shinki, I would take the shitty Italian cow without batting an eye.
You say everyone feels ripped off? So far I've only read of one who feels ripped off and that's you.
I don't understand the problem though, if you don't like the options available then you just back out of your purchase or sell your slot to the highest bidder. Fraud would be if you order shitty shinki and get shitty cow without being told that beforehand.
But I doubt that this is the case.

 

[Damon141]

The problem with pointed shoulders, at least in my opinion, is that they have to fit exactly in terms of dimensions and are less forgiving of deviations up or down. The body shape should also fit. I think the shapes of a bodybuilder don't make it easier.
I am team round shoulders.

He said he has some tricks from making a jacket for another muscular guy, any tips you can shoot my way Mr Proper, I am all ears.
Depending on diet and gym time my deltoids can get very rounded, you know how it is.
The Kensington seems to have rounded shoulders but they are also slightly too narrow 19”, I’m guessing i could use an extra inch for the two jackets Greg is making, any thoughts anyone?

I wasn’t too worried because I’ve seen a few Kensington jackets where they seemed to barely make it on the shoulders, like this:

And if I unzip it, you don’t see it as much like this:

So I’m wondering if I should make any suggestions to Greg on shoulder width or let him do the thinking.

Style might matter to in the decision, one will be a cafe racer of course, my first love. I had to have a black one.
The other a 1930’s style sport jacket.
If that has any bearing on shoulder width to look somewhat period and style authentic

The brown Italian cowhide is absolutely beautiful. Perfect for my next FL project. Slightly darker color than the now discontinued brown pony. It has a slight pull up effect.

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Here it is next to the pigment dyed shinki hh

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It's a bit more stretchy and less stiff than the full aniline hh (back swatch on the right)

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Marc: is this brown going to be for your LeatherTogs?
I personally like that damn no name cheap ass f&$k garbage brown cow dung or cowhide for what it’s worth, I thought it was Badalassi at first considering he has used it before. Since you have so many black vintage cross zips, the brown will give you variety in that department. Black LeatherTogs looks amazing too so tough choices. Brown almost looks less threatening to the public for a hardcore motorcycle jackets, like you could wear it to the office.
I thought that about Justin’s deer hide LaBrea too.

I would consider choosing either the Brown Shinki or Brown Cowhide for one of my new jackets because it just ordered another jacket in black from someone else, but I’m afraid the color is too close to what I already have.
So I can’t tell if Fields browns are different enough to make me choose it over black, i do kno one day I need a russet type color, then i can stop buying

It’s hard to capture the Steerhide color, here is a photo indoors and one in the sunlight

Then this is the same black oak steerhide according to an instagram post before he sent these to a retailer, the retailer DeeCeeStyle was kind enough to have an employee try one on for me to look at, this was about 5 years after they were made, assuming they lightened up, dried up a bit. Plus obviously many batches later.

It might be best to contact Greg and let him know your concerns. Then you'll get first hand info. I don't think Greg will compromise on the leather. But yes, it may not be to everyone's taste.

Boulderinner, Definitely take this man’s advice ^^^^^, Greg and Sam run a two person show and don’t make changes to the website often, see what he has and he might even be able to find something similar

I pre paid, nearly a year ago, for brown shinki pony hide. The guy made a name for himself, his brand, based on his brown Idaho in shinki pony hide. He is selling jackets for almost 1500$. Brown shinki leather is still widely available, as are a number of other high quality horse leathers. I didn’t pay for some shitty off label Italian cowhide. If someone is trying to kill off their brand and make everybody feel ripped off sure start using cow leather after you got the deposit and sold them a shinki horsehide jacket. And Marc dont come on some forum and try and tell me how I should or shouldn’t feel about him doing what he’s doing. It’s fu$chin shady, at best. And that cowhide looks okay but dont try telling me it’s “just as good as shinki”. It sounds ridiculous and makes you seem like some sort of field leather Shill.

I have only been on this board about a year. I joined after buying a used jacket that didn’t fit when I first arrived, I read and read, researching. Asking questions, feeling stupid later for the questions I asked.
Shinki is not the only leather out there. America makes fine leathers used all over the world, Germany and France make leathers for the finest leather shoes, luggage and especially handbags which cost tens of thousands of dollars. And if you think Italy has thrown in the towel on leather production then there is no hope for you. Italian tanneries are world renowned and have people working for generations in the same industry, passed down from father to son.
Leather only turned into a brand when companies started advertising the type and tannery, I wouldn’t think Hermes is using a cheap leather because they don’t announce the tannery.
It’s just marketing my friend.

Just look at all of the amazing and desirable vintage pieces that are still in amazing condition, none are Shinki leather.

Lewis Leather has an Italian vegetable tanned cowhide that FL members
have held and preferred to Shinki. Bill Kelso had a beautiful leather called Victory horsehide which he had to charge nearly $1,000 extra towards a jacket, 3 times what Shinki cost. These guys on this forum all have their favorites and many that have handled or owned tons of jackets like Shinki but are not biased and will own many other leathers and even choose them over Shinki. In Japan many prefer American leather.
Buzz Rickson use’s Italian horsehide and it looks just about like Shinki.
So I’m just saying that other companies are also producing great leather.

Some even live goatskin, and I’ve just ordered from a company who has a vegetable tanned goat which cost quite a bit more than Shinki.
I also recently received a Himel in the pictures above and decided to go for the chrome tanned steerhide for variety since already had 2 Fields jackets on order which I’m still waiting on and didn’t want every jacket in my closet to be Shinki because then I would miss out on other great leather.

But Shinki still available from Fields, 3 types of black and a brown, he discontinued the brown pony because the color was inconsistent so he felt he wouldn’t be putting out his best product, does that sound like a guy trying to rip you off?

You could always pay $2,650 to another company and get the Shinki you want. We are actually all lucky he is providing it at his low price. If you shop around you will see that. I think Langlitz charges $1,000 more for an un named horsehide. You could pay over $4,000 for something from them.

You say everyone feels ripped off? So far I've only read of one who feels ripped off and that's you.
I don't understand the problem though, if you don't like the options available then you just back out of your purchase or sell your slot to the highest bidder. Fraud would be if you order shitty shinki and get shitty cow without being told that beforehand.
But I doubt that this is the case.

His posts seem so hateful and it makes me feel bad for manufacturers because he probably never even handled Shinki but holds it high on a pedestal and feel ripped off for not having it.
We live in such an age if entitled people, I can’t blame him, it’s the environment.

As I mentioned above, I could have had it, my original used Himel I sold was Shinki, then I ordered a steerhide custom.

 

[Marc mndt]

So I’m wondering if I should make any suggestions to Greg on shoulder width or let him do the thinking.

Maybe it would be helpful for him to know some of the measurements of your Himel. Not because those need to be exactly the same on your FL, wouldn't make sense because they're different patterns. But maybe they could be helpful to him for choosing what base size to work from.

When I measured the back girth of my latest FL mockup and compared it to my other jackets I realize I needed to go one size up.

Marc: is this brown going to be for your LeatherTogs?
I personally like that damn no name cheap ass f&$k garbage brown cow dung or cowhide for what it’s worth,

Bingo. I feel like this brown cow is absolutely perfect for the leathertogs in terms of color new out if the box but also how it will age (the color becoming slightly lighter at abrasion points). Moreover, I know the brown pony is not an option anymore but even if it were I wouldn't have chosen it for this project because the pony is VERY shiny. The pony is too fancy for a bold looking mc jacket like the leathertogs.

Since you have so many black vintage cross zips, the brown will give you variety in that department.

Exactly. I do have brown cross zips but those are Aviators. I NEED a brown mc jacket.

Lewis Leather has an Italian vegetable tanned cowhide that FL members
have held and preferred to Shinki.

I recently handled one of their veg cow jacket and I was amazed. One of the nicest leathers I've ever seen.

 

[Aloysius]

Marc, are you building this one on the Manhattan block?

 

[Marc mndt]

Marc, are you building this one on the Manhattan block?

Yep. As you can see the tweaked Manhattan pattern Aviator is very close to the FW leathertogs repro. Just needs a bit less front drop and narrower sleeve ends.

 

[Damon141]

Maybe it would be helpful for him to know some of the measurements of your Himel. Not because those need to be exactly the same on your FL, wouldn't make sense because they're different patterns. But maybe they could be helpful to him for choosing what base size to work from.

When I measured the back girth of my latest FL mockup and compared it to my other jackets I realize I needed to go one size up.

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I did give him the basic generic measurements but seeing how detailed you are I feel I was lazy.
I also see that even a jacket with the same shoulder width can have more or less movement depending how the sleeve attachment is, the inset?

I will now take photo measurements like you just showed of the less common areas, like you showed above and anything else I can think of.

I ordered in March but Greg can take all the time he needs because I won’t be able to use it until October at the very earliest.

 

[Marc mndt]

I did give him the basic generic measurements but seeing how detailed you are I feel I was lazy.
I also see that even a jacket with the same shoulder width can have more or less movement depending how the sleeve attachment is, the inset?

I will now take photo measurements like you just showed of the less common areas, like you showed above and anything else I can think of.

I ordered in March but Greg can take all the time he needs because I won’t be able to use it until October at the very earliest.

I don't think it's much use sending him detailed measurements of each and every panel, It's just that for me this back girth measurement really was an eye opener which showed me that I needed to size up. Because unlike ptp this is not a measurement that can easily be altered while keeping the rest of the jacket the same.

I went from a size 42 with 23"ptp to a size 44 with 23"ptp.

 

[MrProper]

Some of you clearly never read my posts, that’s fine. The long and short of it is that I don’t really care if I get shinki horsehide. I might even prefer Badalassi, or even horween horsehide. Needs to be a comparable product though. Imagine if he was a cabinet maker or table maker and you ordered a table to be made in oak. He was having a hard time matching the oak so he substituted in white pine instead. Would anybody be okay with that? It’s an excellent analogy. Bought a horse jacket. If what people on this forum is accurate, He didn’t like matching horsehide panels, so instead he substitutes a completely different animal with completely different properties. Cow and horse have completely different qualities. Moreover he is substituting a struck through horsehide with tea core cowhide. I feel a better way to have proceeded (if indeed this is the case) would be to not take any further orders on horse and complete those and then moving forward only use the Insanely amazing drippy Italian cow leather. Also, I’m not mad or full of anger or vitriol. Should be able to Have a different opinion without being called toxic or vitriolic. I have probably more jackets than many people on here put together. I probably have more freewheelers and himels alone than many people on here put together.

Your analogy would only apply if you could be sure that Greg's alternative would not be equivalent.
What makes you think that Greg would accept inferior quality in his choice of leathers? Again... it will be best if you discuss this with Greg directly. And then share your findings here ;-)
If you have so much experience in leather jackets, then hopefully you won't claim that horse per se has a higher quality than cow. Ultimately, it depends on the tannery, right? Not even professionals can distinguish horse leather and cow leather without a doubt.

 

[Kenan]

I have probably more jackets than many people on here put together. I probably have more freewheelers and himels alone than many people on here put together.

That sure is a toxic type of comment to me.

 

[Kenan]

Toxic would be saying I must be naive or must not know good leather because I want what I actually paid for (like Damon said to me above). When I respond by saying i have many jackets and know my leather and craftsman ship probably better than most on this forum you call me toxic....i see how things work around here.

If you knew about leather you wouldn’t only be mentioning Shinki, Badalassi and Horween. Just saying….

 

[MrProper]

im not even saying what he is offering is inferior.....its just completely different and not equivalent. horse and cow leather are completely different. that's not even up for debate. a struck through horsehide compared to a tea core cow hide. they couldn't be more different in how they look, feel, age, the tightness of the grain. Even the brown shinki he offers now is very very different than the pony hide and really shouldn't be compared.
ultimately you are right! I need to talk with Greg directly and sort this out. He is a great guy and wants his business to succeed so im sure we will figure out a solution. Honestly I am probably just going to go with the cowhide unless he lets me pay extra to get badalassi or something super unique.

To my knowledge, Badalassi is always cowhide (?). If you would like horse, that is out of the question. I find Badalassi a dream and would always prefer that to horse. By the way, I also like Horweens CXSH better than CXFQHH. Not because it looks so different visually, but wears more comfortably. I find at least.

 

[handymike]

Deep breaths- all around!

I’m sure that if you’re unhappy with the hide choices when your order comes up, you can wait for other browns, select something else, or get your deposit back.

This happened to me when my GW was made. John’s first jacket was in Shinki “dark seal” and was incredible. Unfortunately the supply ran out, and for my remake I had to decide between Italian HH or something else. Ultimately, John hand-dyed another color of Shinki to create something unique. I love my one (maybe of 4) off-colored jacket.

 

[Kenan]

yes "Kenan"...you got me. I am so uncool. My lack of tacky hand tattoos and nausea at the use of the phrase "just sayin" must have given it away.....

Wow you are a special character man

 

[Marc mndt]

Even the brown shinki he offers now is very very different than the pony hide and really shouldn't be compared.

Even the pony of his first batch was very different than the pony of his second batch, see pics below. They couldn't be more different in how they feel, age, tightness of the grain. Even the color itself is different. So if he were to get another batch of the pony, why says you are going to like it? Maybe it'll look totally flat without any color dept or grain.

I do wonder which specific qualities you attribute to cowhide and which to horsehide.

 

[handymike]

Having had jackets made from both, I also prefer Horween’s steerhide over the horsehide.

 

[handymike]

Horween Steer is great for boots!
I have 2 pair of brown (Worverine & Frye) and they look great, even after years of wear. A little coat of Blackrock and they spruce right up.
Badalassi is an incredible leather. The depth and ability to evolve is pretty special. Your Mushmans jacket must be a stunner.

 

[FL2021]

And Greg's interview with Carl... The one which received much attention, which drew some of us here on this form....Greg was asked what was his favorite leather... Almost forgot about that... To the best of my knowledge anyways...if memory serves correctly.
It's published online...