Field Leathers

[Canuck Panda]

If I had had a mock-up at my FL, I would now have a jacket that fit. We would have then seen that the length is not enough and the sleeve rotation does not fit for my physique.
And yes, a solution without mock-ups would be best, of course. Maybe the new patterns will manage this.

I'm just curious, you've bought multiple jackets from other brands. Why stopped at just one FL? Why not go through his fit process for a second one?

 

[marker2037]

Greg's stock Manhattan Size 42 has a p2p in the 21"s, stretched 22" max. From what I see in the for sale section, the 44 jumps to almost 24", and shoulders also jump up more than usual. Something is not right with his pattern grading. This was the problem with Aero. I have them.
And there is the sleeve rotation. It is nice that he wants to do something different. But again, a simple copy of something that works is a good start. SB literally copied Lewis sleeve attachment, and put it on an Aero body, and it now work like wonders.
Not saying Greg's pattern is "broken". Those are not my words. But it is evident he is modelling his pattern after the Japanese brands with the super angled sleeves and wierd upward size grading. This is not gonna work in the long run.

Yea, those numbers you quote are entirely wrong. My Manhattan has a 22.5" chest, 24" back length, 25.5" sleeve and Greg labeled it a 44, even though they are 42 numbers spot on. That '44' he had for sale was custom spec I'm sure. It's not just a stock jacket he made using his typical 44 numbers.

And Greg doesn't make his patterns. He has a pattern maker he uses and apparently now a new one which is close to where his shop is.

 

[Carlos840]

What? Dropped doesn't sound very nice.

Well, maybe a wrong choice of word.
Let's just say i was the one who originally asked him for a Peter's repro, Gregg accepted to take on the project in November 2020, promised me a mockup in 3-4 weeks in january 2021, then told me in March 2021 that my mockup would be done by the end of next week, my last email from him was in November 2021 telling me he didn't know when he would be able to make it...

I wasn't even aware he had finally done a pattern for the Peters and had done this mockup.

In the meantime i got in touch with LW who made a perfect mockup in a couple months, the leather version should follow soon.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Yea, those numbers you quote are entirely wrong. My Manhattan has a 22.5" chest, 24" back length, 25.5" sleeve and Greg labeled it a 44, even though they are 42 numbers spot on. That '44' he had for sale was custom spec I'm sure. It's not just a stock jacket he made using his typical 44 numbers.

And Greg doesn't make his patterns. He has a pattern maker he uses and apparently now a new one which is close to where his shop is.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. That there is a pattern guy (not Greg) that does the pattern grading. I assume Greg sends him his own size and then the guy grades it up and down. Then he labels each size according to how he wants to market them.
21.5"P2P is not size 42, maybe San Mateo yes. I don't have one, bought something else instead.

In short, he needs to use a better pattern guy. And go with American market sizing instead of Japanese.
I would then put in an order or more immediately.

The truth is that pattern grading cost money. A lot of money. It's a big investment for the makers. The US makers have it easy because of all the history of manufacturing and left over specialists. Much harder and most likely more expensive to do the same pattern grading up in Scotland. But that's the jacket.

 

[MrProper]

I'm just curious, you've bought multiple jackets from other brands. Why stopped at just one FL? Why not go through his fit process for a second one?

I don't like waiting 12 months for a jacket. I'm just too impatient and too erratic. Who knows, maybe in 12 months I'll like something completely different.
I tried it once when the waiting time was 6 months. However, I wanted Badalassi, which was not available in the color I wanted.

 

[marker2037]

This is exactly what I was trying to say. That there is a pattern guy (not Greg) that does the pattern grading. I assume Greg sends him his own size and then the guy grades it up and down. Then he labels each size according to how he wants to market them.
21.5"P2P is not size 42, maybe San Mateo yes. I don't have one, bought something else instead.

In short, he needs to use a better pattern guy. And go with American market sizing instead of Japanese.
I would then put in an order or more immediately.

The truth is that pattern grading cost money. A lot of money. It's a big investment for the makers. The US makers have it easy because of all the history of manufacturing and left over specialists. Much harder and most likely more expensive to do the same pattern grading up in Scotland. But that's the jacket.

What I was trying to say was I don't agree with you that Greg is making a size 42 that small. I've seen the jackets he has made in the past in size 40 for himself when he just started and those were all on spec for standard size 40 jackets, only one size too small for me.

But regardless of the labeled sizes, the dimensions are what truly counts and anyone ordering over any jacket over the internet needs to know what dimensional range works for them, period. Who cares what the label says, give me chest, bottom hem, shoulders, back length, and sleeve length and I'll tell you if it fits me or not.

 

[marker2037]

Well, maybe a wrong choice of word.
Let's just say i was the one who originally asked him for a Peter's repro, Gregg accepted to take on the project in November 2020, promised me a mockup in 3-4 weeks in january 2021, then told me in March 2021 that my mockup would be done by the end of next week, my last email from him was in November 2021 telling me he didn't know when he would be able to make it...

I wasn't even aware he had finally done a pattern for the Peters and had done this mockup.

In the meantime i got in touch with LW who made a perfect mockup in a couple months, the leather version should follow soon.

Did you ever put down a deposit or place an actual order?

 

[Carlos840]

Did you ever put down a deposit or place an actual order?

No, i only sent him buttons, the deal was that i would pay the deposit after he had made the mockup/figured the pattern.
This was before the youtube video that kickstarted his business...

 

[Canuck Panda]

What I was trying to say was I don't agree with you that Greg is making a size 42 that small. I've seen the jackets he has made in the past in size 40 for himself when he just started and those were all on spec for standard size 40 jackets, only one size too small for me.

But regardless of the labeled sizes, the dimensions are what truly counts and anyone ordering over any jacket over the internet needs to know what dimensional range works for them, period. Who cares what the label says, give me chest, bottom hem, shoulders, back length, and sleeve length and I'll tell you if it fits me or not.

Mine was that small for 42. 21.5" P2P. I gave him my same measurements that I gave Aero, but got very different products. I am not looking for someone to blame. I just want a Langlitz or Johnson jacket built by Greg. Just do it.
Covering for his flawed pattern/sizing system isn't helping him. I am not back buying a second or third jacket.
Nothing I said were meant to be negative. My intention is clear. I want a Langlitz Johnson jacket built with better finishing by Greg. Period. Not some FW RMC copy that doesn't work. TBH, the new deerskin will just kick the cans down the road further because how soft it is.

 

[Tom71]

This is a VERY interesting read.

I have to concur that the pattern used to be problematic for me too in Greg´s first two iterations for me. The jackets are still wearable, but the sleeve/torso construction gives a massive pull on the chest region of the jacket when I stand very erect (if that makes any sense).
The new jacket fits completely different though, so I can only assume Greg continues to tweak patterns all the time. The new FL is certainly one of my best fitting jackets (proof attached...).

I find the discussion mockup vs. pattern valuable: Greg goes such a long way to individualise the fit that he must literally spend weeks on some jackets (gross times, of course). We now see almost uncalculable wait-times and the first signs of frustrated customers. Been there - done that!
I wonder if some extra effort in more "fits the masses" pattern may be a solution (as suggested here), or if that would erase his USP.

Personally, if I go with Greg (which I would do again in a heartbeat!), I will need to give up all expectations as to timing. Easy for me, as I have so many different jackets. Perhaps not so easy if you are looking forward to your first, second, third jacket. Only to find out 18 months later that the final product just doesn´t fit right.

 

[Carlos840]

This is a VERY interesting read.

I have to concur that the pattern used to be problematic for me too in Greg´s first two iterations for me. The jackets are still wearable, but the sleeve/torso construction gives a massive pull on the chest region of the jacket when I stand very erect (if that makes any sense).
The new jacket fits completely different though, so I can only assume Greg continues to tweak patterns all the time. The new FL is certainly one of my best fitting jackets (proof attached...).

I find the discussion mockup vs. pattern valuable: Greg goes such a long way to individualise the fit that he must literally spend weeks on some jackets (gross times, of course). We now see almost uncalculable wait-times and the first signs of frustrated customers. Been there - done that!
I wonder if some extra effort in more "fits the masses" pattern may be a solution (as suggested here), or if that would erase his USP.

Personally, if I go with Greg (which I would do again in a heartbeat!), I will need to give up all expectations as to timing. Easy for me, as I have so many different jackets. Perhaps not so easy if you are looking forward to your first, second, third jacket. Only to find out 18 months later that the final product just doesn´t fit right.

View attachment 421557

Looks nice, but the weird square/peaky oversized shoulders remain...
Do you have pics of the back, i wonder if he fixed the crumpling in the bottom rear that your first jacket suffered from:

 

[Tom71]

Looks nice, but the weird square/peaky oversized shoulders remain...
Do you have pics of the back, i wonder if he fixed the crumpling in the bottom rear that your first jacket suffered from:

I actually spec´ed the shoulders that way. Trust me: It does fit...

 

[Canuck Panda]

The dips into the shoulder is because the shoulder is too small. I have/had the same 21.5" P2P jackets from FL and Aero. Aero has wider (or proper sized/graded) shoulder, and FL didn't. This is not Greg's fault. It is his pattern grading guy. No cloth test jacket will fix this. I understand the desire to help and cover for a friend. Great intention, unexpected bad results.

All stock patterns. FL vs Aero vs Lewis. Lewis has the different sleeve attachment and hence making it the best for mobility. But the "Aero" angular sleeves gives square looking shoulders many Japanese expensive jackets also copied. I don't have a SB photo but it would slot between the Lewis and Aero as it has the Aero block but with Lewis sleeves.

Pattern awesomeness ranking (first to last), Lewis, Aero/SB, FL.

Finishing awesomeness ranking (first to last), FL, everyone else.

Greg has some scale now, it's time to invest in making the pattern blocks better, or at least matching his competitors. Otherwise his skills are just going down the toilet. Not telling him the truth and using excuses is actually not helping him in the long run.

The perfect jacket is possible and within reach. Just do it.

 

[Aloysius]

@Canuck Panda have you reached out to him about it? He’s working with new pattern graders now, so I think the kind of specific, contextualized feedback you give complete with illustrations would be very helpful.

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Canuck Panda have you reached out to him about it? He’s working with new pattern graders now, so I think the kind of specific, contextualized feedback you give complete with illustrations would be very helpful.

I just buy jackets, how each chose to make them is their own business.

But the truth is that pattern grading is very expensive and time consuming part of the business. I've now figured out that every maker make the first jacket in their own size, then the grader do the rest.

If you are same size as Greg, then you are in luck.

 

[MrProper]

For me, these wrinkles are definitely due to the strong sleeve rotation. When I put my arms in the position that the sleeve requires, I no longer have these wrinkles, or only minimal ones. Unfortunately, I only have a photo with wrinkles because that is my natural arm position.

 

[Aloysius]

I just buy jackets, how each chose to make them is their own business.

I get what you mean, though I do think feedback like this could be valuable especially since he’s very open to it. He made a video recently about how he really wants to get his patterns right.

Look how far Five Star developed under the feedback from people here and on VLJ. Greg is already starting out with fantastic construction skills and leather selection, so it’s really just one thing feedback would focus on.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I get what you mean, though I do think feedback like this could be valuable especially since he’s very open to it. He made a video recently about how he really wants to get his patterns right.

Look how far Five Star developed under the feedback from people here and on VLJ. Greg is already starting out with fantastic construction skills and leather selection, so it’s really just one thing feedback would focus on.

To be fair though I don't think any customers knows the pattern making process my self included. So we just bitch and whine and the maker problem solves. And I also don't think that's the best thing for 5Star either, because back to square one, none of us my self included can make a jacket from scratch. How are we qualified to tell the maker how to tweak the pattern?

There is nothing "wrong" with Greg's pattern. His own size (40?) works just fine, and that's why he had them graded up and down in different sizes. But his graded size 42 didn't work for me, by a long shot. I am very tempted to get his insta sale jacket which is a size bigger.

I am no expert, but it seems that patterns honing is a trial and error process that takes a LONG time. Most US brands had a century of garment industry history, that's probably why most has forgiving patterns regardless of sizing. Scotland is a bit different. It will take a while.

 

[MrProper]

And I also don't think that's the best thing for 5Star either, because back to square one, none of us my self included can make a jacket from scratch. How are we qualified to tell the maker how to tweak the pattern?

I think that this is not necessarily rocket science. I am confident that I can find the error, even if I only know how to fix some of them.
And some of the things come out with logical thinking. And if someone knows his trade, he will know how to address the points.
In this respect, it can make sense to help the producers a little.

There is nothing "wrong" with Greg's pattern.

Perhaps "wrong" is the wrong expression, but rather inappropriate for many. The sleeve rotation, for example, is certainly something that is great for motorcyclists, but not for those who wear their jacket in everyday life.
But since he's been working with the mockups, I've hardly seen the tension over the chest coming through the sleeves.

 

[Damon141]

Great discussion for those waiting on a Field Leather Jacket. I am definitely taking notes and will discuss the sleeve rotation with him when my turn arrives.

It can’t be easy trying to achieve these close fitting jackets on a wide variety of body shapes. Everyone has their own posture and defects in body shape due to genetics and poor sitting and standing habits over the years.

I have shoulders that roll forward and larger frontal mass due to front deltoids and pectoral muscles. I will address this with him when the time comes to possibly add more leather material in the front upper torso and eliminate the inward scalloped cut for the arm attachment.

I will also address that that I have a 47” chest with maybe 18.5”-19” shoulder width. These Japanese makers get crazy with the shoulders and somehow think if someone has a 44”-46” chest then their shoulders must be 21”. Even some of the tallest most broad shouldered guys on this board are probably closer to 19” in shoulder width.

These two were posted a while back and I think it could lead to the tightness in the chest.
Then you see the more natural looking shape of the Lewis, original Buco, and California Racer all which seem to have a more vertical shoulder seam

I think if he did away with this inward cut in favor of only a slight curve then it would reduce this tightness.

I will address the faults in my body shape and because I’m not 8% body fat, I am personally not going to go with one of these really tight fits that only highlight body inconsistencies.