Fedora Lounge Motorcyclists: Safe Gear with a Vintage Vibe

[Edward]

Inspired by threads over the last couple of months, such as this one: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/biker-gloves-what-to-get.89110/page-3 , I thought it would be interesting to create a thread where those on TFL who ride motorcycles can share information about somerthing which is a holy grail for all of us who are new to motorcycling: gear which is both protective and has something of that vintage cool.

What this thread is for:

Post information and links about cool things you've found (if you have direct experience of it, all the better) which have something of a vintage look, that works well with a vintage-style or vintage bike.

What this thread is NOT for:

Arguments about whether safety gear should be worn, accusations of nannying, any of that. We all have opinions on what is overkill and what is cavalier madness. In the end, we're all adults and, subject only to the occasional helmet law, entitled to make our own choices what to wear and what not to wear on a motorcycle. If you want to make your point about the necessity of ATG,ATT, this is not the thread for you: move on. If you ride wearing only a pair of shorts, or a cheap leather jacket and some regular jeans and want to sneer at those who choose otherwise, this is not the thread for you: move on.

I would hope this thread can become a useful resource for those who ride, or want to ride, and who appreciate vintage style. Of course, it can always just bomb as well!


That all said, let me start with a couple of examples I've seen, as someone who is, over the next few months, going to take some beginner lessons and look into getting a bike for the first time.

A wile ago I think we mentioned the Lewis Leathers "Armour Ready" jackets that have been made available via Urban Rider in the UK: http://www.urbanrider.co.uk/brands/lewis-leathers.html There's the Super Monza, in black or navy:

...and the 'Racing' in black or dark brown:

Both much more seventies style than many of us on here will go for, but cool looking. I would have thought that iof this is a successful venture, Lewis might be open to donig this with other designs in future - I'd certainly be very keen on the idea of a Lightning with armouring...

One Forumite on the thread, I think, Iabout the Aero Elvis recently told me that Aero will make armour pockets in their bike jackets. I would be fantastic if Denny or Holly could confirm this!

One of our own, Simon James Cathcart (he of the eponymous SJC brand) did a run of denim jackets and matching, 50s cut jeans with full kevlar lining:

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/jackets/sjc-yard-boss-kevlar-lined-biker-jacket

I'm personally hoping that Simon does another run of these, with some armour pocketing the next time...

The Bowter kevlar long johns are designed to be worn under any trousers, and include pockets for hip and knee armour. I can see these being a nice option for those who just can't find riding trews they like.... and ideal for those who want to don tweeds on the bike for the Distinguished Gentlemen's Ride! GBP129 from Urban Rider - http://www.urbanrider.co.uk/bowtex-...-yellow.html?gclid=CO3plMOP99ICFWsq0wodmH8ECw . If the yellow colour bothers you, you can (for forty quid more) get them in black.

Lastly, my latest discovery, which I plan to look into further are Helstons of France. www.helstons.net Most of their jackets are a touch more modern and 'branded' than I'd prefer - though if you like the 'Stve Macqueen gone Racing' vibe, the Ace model might well appeal. They have one or two nice looking, plain cafe racers. For me, though, the real excitement is their gloves, which comed in 48 designs for me (and 18 for ladies). Great range of Summer and Winter looks, models with and without the big carbon knuckle-protectors. Majority of them CE1 rated, which is a plus. I've seen a few cool looking vintaged style bike gloves that have some sort of modern safety features, but these are the only ones I've seen I liked the look of which are also CE1 protected. The men's range: http://www.helstons.net/gants/genre/homme.html

Anything else anyone has seen that seems worth investigating, or you have used and found good?

 

[2wheelgrplr]

I recently picked up that Helstons Ace jacket you mentioned, my second Helstons jacket. Yes, they do have a touch of modern about them, but they're pretty decent with a very 1970s vibe about them. I do wish their armour pads were a tad bit slimmer. Another French brand to consider in this retro-biking arena is Segura.

You're UK-based. Besides Urban Rider, have you checked out Moto Legends? http://www.motolegends.com Right up your alley, I'd think - biking gear on the retro/vintage/custom side of the scale.

Netherlands-based Revit has a growing number of choices in its retro/classic lineup of jackets. Their latest 2017 range offer super-slim, low-profile seesoft armour in stylish leather jackets.

Folks that never stopped making stuff the classic way = VANSON LEATHERS!!! Their Website is stuck in a time-warp from 20 years ago, but their stuff is top-quality, no-nonsense, minimal-frills, hardcore stuff. They make a ton of non-armoured old-school "biker" jackets, as well as some retro-style/classic jackets with armour pads: the AR3, Comet with armour; their Drifter line, etc. Do like what I and a bunch of other guys do - wear an armoured shirt underneath (check out UK-based Knox, Forcefield, Alpinestars, US-based Bohn, etc for decent armoured shirts) and a Vanson (or Schott or Lost Worlds or Aero or Lewis ...) jacket of your choice on top.

Same with pants. There seem to be a steadily increasing number of brands offering decent armoured riding jeans and pants that look properly retro-cool: Rokker, Knox, Revit, Alpinestars, and a bunch more.

Boots - Revit, TCX, Alpinestars heritage line (or whatever cool name they go by), etc.

 

[Guppy]

Inspired by threads over the last couple of months, such as this one: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/biker-gloves-what-to-get.89110/page-3 , I thought it would be interesting to create a thread where those on TFL who ride motorcycles can share information about somerthing which is a holy grail for all of us who are new to motorcycling: gear which is both protective and has something of that vintage cool.

What this thread is for:

Post information and links about cool things you've found (if you have direct experience of it, all the better) which have something of a vintage look, that works well with a vintage-style or vintage bike.

What this thread is NOT for:

Arguments about whether safety gear should be worn, accusations of nannying, any of that. We all have opinions on what is overkill and what is cavalier madness. In the end, we're all adults and, subject only to the occasional helmet law, entitled to make our own choices what to wear and what not to wear on a motorcycle. If you want to make your point about the necessity of ATG,ATT, this is not the thread for you: move on. If you ride wearing only a pair of shorts, or a cheap leather jacket and some regular jeans and want to sneer at those who choose otherwise, this is not the thread for you: move on.

I would hope this thread can become a useful resource for those who ride, or want to ride, and who appreciate vintage style. Of course, it can always just bomb as well!


That all said, let me start with a couple of examples I've seen, as someone who is, over the next few months, going to take some beginner lessons and look into getting a bike for the first time.

A wile ago I think we mentioned the Lewis Leathers "Armour Ready" jackets that have been made available via Urban Rider in the UK: http://www.urbanrider.co.uk/brands/lewis-leathers.html There's the Super Monza, in black or navy:

...and the 'Racing' in black or dark brown:

Both much more seventies style than many of us on here will go for, but cool looking. I would have thought that iof this is a successful venture, Lewis might be open to donig this with other designs in future - I'd certainly be very keen on the idea of a Lightning with armouring...

One Forumite on the thread, I think, Iabout the Aero Elvis recently told me that Aero will make armour pockets in their bike jackets. I would be fantastic if Denny or Holly could confirm this!

One of our own, Simon James Cathcart (he of the eponymous SJC brand) did a run of denim jackets and matching, 50s cut jeans with full kevlar lining:

http://www.simonjamescathcart.com/jackets/sjc-yard-boss-kevlar-lined-biker-jacket

I'm personally hoping that Simon does another run of these, with some armour pocketing the next time...

The Bowter kevlar long johns are designed to be worn under any trousers, and include pockets for hip and knee armour. I can see these being a nice option for those who just can't find riding trews they like.... and ideal for those who want to don tweeds on the bike for the Distinguished Gentlemen's Ride! GBP129 from Urban Rider - http://www.urbanrider.co.uk/bowtex-...-yellow.html?gclid=CO3plMOP99ICFWsq0wodmH8ECw . If the yellow colour bothers you, you can (for forty quid more) get them in black.

Lastly, my latest discovery, which I plan to look into further are Helstons of France. www.helstons.net Most of their jackets are a touch more modern and 'branded' than I'd prefer - though if you like the 'Stve Macqueen gone Racing' vibe, the Ace model might well appeal. They have one or two nice looking, plain cafe racers. For me, though, the real excitement is their gloves, which comed in 48 designs for me (and 18 for ladies). Great range of Summer and Winter looks, models with and without the big carbon knuckle-protectors. Majority of them CE1 rated, which is a plus. I've seen a few cool looking vintaged style bike gloves that have some sort of modern safety features, but these are the only ones I've seen I liked the look of which are also CE1 protected. The men's range: http://www.helstons.net/gants/genre/homme.html

Anything else anyone has seen that seems worth investigating, or you have used and found good?

Fully modern gear is the way to go if you are safety conscious. Armor is a must. A full helmet is a must. Leather is better than textile for protection against abrasion, and you want good, thick leather, reinforced by armor at key impact points, and high quality double or triple stitching at seams, the fewer seams the better, generally speaking. Leather protects your skin and keeps everything else together. Armor helps reduce bruising, broken bones. Nothing is truly enough, and nothing can prevent every possible injury. Some protective gear may make you too clumsy or hamper your vision, so there's also a such thing as too much. You have to compromise to what you are comfortable accepting.

Probably the most important safety gear is the stuff that avoids accidents. Visibility, turn signals, your vision, knowing how to handle the bike in emergency maneuvering, avoiding dangerous conditions, riding defensively, never riding impaired, etc.

As far as looking vintage, there are many different styles and makers of motorcycle gear, and some will look more modern and some will look more classic. The best of all looks is able bodied, not mangled or dead.

 

[Peter Bowden]

From Aero's Instagram page.The bulk of my riding was done in the Eighties when I had an ill-fitting Mascot leather jacket and Belstaff nylon trousers.I think the jacket style as illustrated is stylish and would probably adapt well to under-armour depending on how loose you like your jackets

 

[bn1966]

Just picked up one of these for the Scooter (Spada Airforce One), comes with shoulder & elbow armour though I've removed it in favour of my Knox armoured vest & full Knox back protector.
Not bad for £80.00...abrasion & water resistant

Great Thread theme Edward...going to enjoy this one, things have been a bit quiet.

 

[Monitor]

Depends on a bike. If you're gonna ride that ancient Triumph or a scooter, then a vintage leather coat and a 3/4 is okay for a little cosplaying around. Ducati SS? Wear a full leather suit, preferably from Vanson because apparently not even Dainese knows how to make a good suit anymore, full armour and a rosary.

 

[Edward]

You're UK-based. Besides Urban Rider, have you checked out Moto Legends? http://www.motolegends.com Right up your alley, I'd think - biking gear on the retro/vintage/custom side of the scale.

Yeah, I've bought a few bits and pieces of clothing from them over the years. Particulary keen on The Richa Bonneville jacket -

Netherlands-based Revit has a growing number of choices in its retro/classic lineup of jackets. Their latest 2017 range offer super-slim, low-profile seesoft armour in stylish leather jackets.

I've been prowling their site looking at the Helstons gloves, actually!

Folks that never stopped making stuff the classic way = VANSON LEATHERS!!! Their Website is stuck in a time-warp from 20 years ago, but their stuff is top-quality, no-nonsense, minimal-frills, hardcore stuff. They make a ton of non-armoured old-school "biker" jackets, as well as some retro-style/classic jackets with armour pads: the AR3, Comet with armour; their Drifter line, etc.

Vanson look great. I don't get why (it seems: the websaite is confusing) they don't do armouring in so many of their more classic styles. If they did an armoured Perfecto type, I'd be on it like a shot. Guess they must mostly sell those to guys who don't want the armoured bits...

Do like what I and a bunch of other guys do - wear an armoured shirt underneath (check out UK-based Knox, Forcefield, Alpinestars, US-based Bohn, etc for decent armoured shirts) and a Vanson (or Schott or Lost Worlds or Aero or Lewis ...) jacket of your choice on top.

Mn, I've considered that option, though tbh I can see it ending up being an awful lot more faff than just having the jacket in it (aka: the easier it is to wear, the more likely it will get worn...).

Same with pants. There seem to be a steadily increasing number of brands offering decent armoured riding jeans and pants that look properly retro-cool: Rokker, Knox, Revit, Alpinestars, and a bunch more.

Yip. It's such a shame Maple Jeans went under - they were hands down the best looking option I've seen so far. I'm looking at the esy option here being the kevlar longjohns with the knee and hip pads.

Boots - Revit, TCX, Alpinestars heritage line (or whatever cool name they go by), etc.

Picked up a pair of TCXs recently, actually. Lovely boots, traditional engineer style (the TCX Custom GTX model). Chose them oer the Heritage option as they can take a shine. Nice boots - a real shame about the branded logo on the fron,t but I suppose the way I wear them it will never be seen.

Leather protects your skin and keeps everything else together. Armor helps reduce bruising, broken bones. Nothing is truly enough, and nothing can prevent every possible injury. Some protective gear may make you too clumsy or hamper your vision, so there's also a such thing as too much. You have to compromise to what you are comfortable accepting.

.

Yip, definitely. I've read one too many horror stories about guys who wore sweaty Wionter glvoes in Summer getting into trouble!

From Aero's Instagram page.The bulk of my riding was done in the Eighties when I had an ill-fitting Mascot leather jacket and Belstaff nylon trousers.I think the jacket style as illustrated is stylish and would probably adapt well to under-armour depending on how loose you like your jackets

Yes, that would be fantastic. I've also considered something like that with a hsearling Winter lining. Would be an interestingcombination, if possible.

View attachment 70829

Just picked up one of these for the Scooter (Spada Airforce One), comes with shoulder & elbow armour though I've removed it in favour of my Knox armoured vest & full Knox back protector.
Not bad for £80.00...abrasion & water resistant

Great Thread theme Edward...going to enjoy this one, things have been a bit quiet.

:thu:

It's interesting seeing protective gear start to become a thing for the scooter scene. Never ceases to amaze me how little I see people wearing any sort of protective stuff on Scooters, and yet at similar speeds there's no difference to a bike (save, I guess, sitting on the engine rather than wrapped around it you can jump clear easier, maybe...).

Depends on a bike. If you're gonna ride that ancient Triumph or a scooter, then a vintage leather coat and a 3/4 is okay for a little cosplaying around. Ducati SS? Wear a full leather suit, preferably from Vanson because apparently not even Dainese knows how to make a good suit anymore, full armour and a rosary.

Ha, no..... I don't see me gonig anywhere near a big sports bike, ever. I have my eye on one of Benny Boneshaker's Mutts, when they finally put out the 250cc version.... No need for a bigger bike. I've always been all about efficient and small. I'll never qualify for "colours" on a little bike, but that suits me just fine....

 

[Peter Mackin]

Check out claymore wax cotton fully armoured jackets...fantastic quality & made to measure.

 

[Bjorn240]

I have a couple Vansons and a Barbour International, that I'll wear to run down to the shops or pub, sometimes with an armored shirt underneath.

But for commuting I wear a one-piece Aerostich Roadcrafter, for touring, a two-piece Aerostich Roadcrafter, and for sport riding a set of Alpinestars one-piece leathers. Convenience, really.

But an armored Vanson AR3, a pair of Vanson Sport Rider pants, and a set of TCX Fuel boots, and a pair of Lee Parks DeerSport gloves in black and you'll be pretty reasonably safe and look, if not period-correct, at least like a classic motorcyclist, instead of a grown-up Power Ranger.

Rubber side down.

 

[ProteinNerd]

I wear a Roland Sands Ronin Jacket most of the time...has built in pockets for 3DO armour in the usual places (shoulders, elbows back) and is a decent road jacket....for the track you would probably want something better. Has a good amount of pockets which always come in handy....overall I really like it. (Not me in the pic, just something I found online to give you an idea).

I also use the Klim Fifty 1 Kelvar Jeans which I also really like.
My review here: #1

Both basic classic looking items without forgoing decent protection.

 

[Bjorn240]

Oh - one other thing - Bates Fast Lane Roadracing boots are great and classic-looking, though they don't have much ankle protection compared to modern Sidis and A*Stars. But they look great. I'm tempted to get a pair for commuting.

 

[bn1966]

Quite like that Mojave short jacket look like the Richa Scrambler

 

[l0fielectronic]

Yeah, I've bought a few bits and pieces of clothing from them over the years. Particulary keen on The Richa Bonneville jacket -

If you are keen on this style of jacket I'd really recomend trying out the Belstaff version, the Tourist Trophy as they call it now. They may be twice the price of the above (But a whole lot cheaper than the fashion line) but I bought one around ten years ago now and its been a great jacket, still looks pretty much like new after a lot of wear, is great in wet weather and looks pretty good with the armour removed as well. Its one of those few items that I would buy again if this one ever got lost or wore out, though I doubt it will.

Theres a decent video review here of this years, I'm not a fan of a couple of the newer styles in there, and some of the updates to the model like the belt guard seem like they'd be a bit impractical to me but if the jackets are still as well made as they were, I'd say they are worth the price.

 

[SkyTurtle]

Pardon me for being a bit late adding my quid to this, but I've been away for the summer. I did read the OP's guidelines but I feel I must add my perspective on gear just to frame the context of my suggestions. Rather than basing gear decisions on the type of bike I ride, I say it's like anything you ask your attorney: the answer inevitably begins with "It depends on your tolerance for risk." Some guys are happy riding plasti-bikes in shorts and flip-flops while others ride lethargic cruisers in full TPX armor. Whatever, as long as you ride. Take others' opinions graciously and then ride what the hell you want in what the hell you want.

That being said, I love Vanson. Have too many of them. And I agree wholeheartedly with what 2wheelgrplr said, their Website is a house of mirrors and customer service is sporadic but their stuff is top notch. I've tried just about everything mentioned on this site but I always buy another Vanson whenever I shop. (BTW, I'd recommend dealing with Carrie at Thurston Bros. for a much easier experience.) Have a Model B, Hurricane (with armor), Manx, Comet and a Thunderbird. But for a "vintage" look that I don't think can be beat, this Drifter is the new object of my desires. '60s-style racing stripes on the sleeves, banded collar and armor in elbows and shoulders:

For a vintage-look helmet, I love my Biltwell Gringo in the spring, summer and fall:

In the winter I have a Shoei that Jim Culora painted to look like a vintage Bell (to satisfy my old Rocker dad):

My all time favorite boot, except for the hottest part of the summer, is the good old Army issue tanker boot. They're rugged, comfortable (built on the Munson last) and the straps allow you to snug them up smartly on the ankle. The lugged soles give good traction whenever you put your foot down and they're cheap enough (about $130) to replace every few years. I use denatured alcohol to take off the "shiny" finish and then shine them like any other boot:

I have a couple pairs of AGV kevlar jeans with soft armor in the knees. They're tighter in the leg than something like the Sliders I've seen and most people can't tell they're not fashion jeans. Buy them a little long and roll them up for a vintage look:

Whatever you ride, enjoy it!

 

[Graemsay]

I was in the Netherlands last week, and dropped by Biker Outfit, who're a major stockist of Rev'it gear. I spent a couple of hours trying bits on, and deciding what I'm going to get, but here are a few photos of things that I liked.

This is the Rev'it Fargo. The body is brown goatskin, whilst the shoulders and collar are a Cordura denim. It's a size big, as they didn't have the correct one in stock.

The Rev'it Gibson, whose cut didn't work on me. It's got a thermal lining, which I probably wouldn't use in Australia too.

The Rev'it Vaughn in brown. This is a size big, but I didn't get a photo in the correct one.

Rusty Stitches Billy. This looked great, and fit really well, but the leather felt relatively insubstantial compared to the Rev'it jackets.

 

[2wheelgrplr]

Pardon me for being a bit late adding my quid to this, but I've been away for the summer. I did read the OP's guidelines but I feel I must add my perspective on gear just to frame the context of my suggestions. Rather than basing gear decisions on the type of bike I ride, I say it's like anything you ask your attorney: the answer inevitably begins with "It depends on your tolerance for risk." Some guys are happy riding plasti-bikes in shorts and flip-flops while others ride lethargic cruisers in full TPX armor. Whatever, as long as you ride. Take others' opinions graciously and then ride what the hell you want in what the hell you want.

That being said, I love Vanson. Have too many of them. And I agree wholeheartedly with what 2wheelgrplr said, their Website is a house of mirrors and customer service is sporadic but their stuff is top notch. I've tried just about everything mentioned on this site but I always buy another Vanson whenever I shop. (BTW, I'd recommend dealing with Carrie at Thurston Bros. for a much easier experience.) Have a Model B, Hurricane (with armor), Manx, Comet and a Thunderbird. But for a "vintage" look that I don't think can be beat, this Drifter is the new object of my desires. '60s-style racing stripes on the sleeves, banded collar and armor in elbows and shoulders:

View attachment 87827

For a vintage-look helmet, I love my Biltwell Gringo in the spring, summer and fall:

View attachment 87829

In the winter I have a Shoei that Jim Culora painted to look like a vintage Bell (to satisfy my old Rocker dad):

View attachment 87832

My all time favorite boot, except for the hottest part of the summer, is the good old Army issue tanker boot. They're rugged, comfortable (built on the Munson last) and the straps allow you to snug them up smartly on the ankle. The lugged soles give good traction whenever you put your foot down and they're cheap enough (about $130) to replace every few years. I use denatured alcohol to take off the "shiny" finish and then shine them like any other boot:

View attachment 87830

I have a couple pairs of AGV kevlar jeans with soft armor in the knees. They're tighter in the leg than something like the Sliders I've seen and most people can't tell they're not fashion jeans. Buy them a little long and roll them up for a vintage look:

View attachment 87831

Whatever you ride, enjoy it!

Those boots are awesome, have wanted them for a while now, maybe time to grab a pair soon.

Vanson Drifter, also another wish-list staple.

Speaking of armored Vanson armored leather jacket, here's my latest favorite - Union Garage NYC collaboration with Vanson: http://uniongaragenyc.com/shop/featured/union-garage-v7-jacket

 

[Monitor]

Rusty Stitches Billy. This looked great, and fit really well, but the leather felt relatively insubstantial compared to the Rev'it jackets.

View attachment 87871

Rusty looks REALLY cool!

 

[SkyTurtle]

Speaking of armored Vanson armored leather jacket, here's my latest favorite - Union Garage NYC collaboration with Vanson: http://uniongaragenyc.com/shop/featured/union-garage-v7-jacket

That V7 jacket is awesome! I particularly like the bi-swing back and larger hand packets up front (two minor complaints I have with the Comet) not to mention the oxblood option. And it definitely hides the armor well. Very cool looking jacket.

 

[Edward]

From Aero's Instagram page.The bulk of my riding was done in the Eighties when I had an ill-fitting Mascot leather jacket and Belstaff nylon trousers.I think the jacket style as illustrated is stylish and would probably adapt well to under-armour depending on how loose you like your jackets

Yes, I have half an eye on one of these if I were to get seriously into Winter riding - all the warmth of an Irvin, but much better abraision resistance shoulsd it ever be needed. Lovely look to it.

For a vintage-look helmet, I love my Biltwell Gringo in the spring, summer and fall:

View attachment 87829

The Gringos look great. Widely on sale in the UK, which surprised me, as while they have that great, erly-fullface look comparable to the Bell Bullit and the Premier Trophy, the Biltwell isn't yet ECE certified, which means it doesn't qualify to meet the UK legal requirement in a helmet (DOT isn't recognised by law in the UK, so if I were to ride wearing on here, I'd not only be considered to be, in effect, riding without a helmet, but it could also invalidate my insurance). Be interesting to see if that happens in due course, as well as what it does to the price. I suspect with ECE sticker it could command a higher price tag, closer to the Bullit and the Trophy.

My all time favorite boot, except for the hottest part of the summer, is the good old Army issue tanker boot. They're rugged, comfortable (built on the Munson last) and the straps allow you to snug them up smartly on the ankle. The lugged soles give good traction whenever you put your foot down and they're cheap enough (about $130) to replace every few years. I use denatured alcohol to take off the "shiny" finish and then shine them like any other boot:

View attachment 87830

Very nice indeed. I'd love to see a fleece-lined version of these, in brown. How high up the leg do they go? Same as a 10" engineer?

 

[SkyTurtle]

Yes, I have half an eye on one of these if I were to get seriously into Winter riding - all the warmth of an Irvin, but much better abraision resistance shoulsd it ever be needed. Lovely look to it.



The Gringos look great. Widely on sale in the UK, which surprised me, as while they have that great, erly-fullface look comparable to the Bell Bullit and the Premier Trophy, the Biltwell isn't yet ECE certified, which means it doesn't qualify to meet the UK legal requirement in a helmet (DOT isn't recognised by law in the UK, so if I were to ride wearing on here, I'd not only be considered to be, in effect, riding without a helmet, but it could also invalidate my insurance). Be interesting to see if that happens in due course, as well as what it does to the price. I suspect with ECE sticker it could command a higher price tag, closer to the Bullit and the Trophy.



Very nice indeed. I'd love to see a fleece-lined version of these, in brown. How high up the leg do they go? Same as a 10" engineer?

Interesting info on the Gringo in the UK, Edward. I tend to believe that the UK/European attitudes on moto safety are quite superior to those in the US so I'm not surprised to hear that the Gringo isn't fairing well across the pond. It's a great helmet; very large viewport and no heavy padding or chin curtain around the bottom so airflow in the hottest part of the summer is superb. For me, it's like wearing a 3/4 with a chin bar. Probably couldn't compare with the protection of a Shoei or Schuberth in a high speed crash, but it could save your face in a lower-speed off around town.

The tanker boots are just a shade lower than my 10-inch engineers. Without measuring, I'd say they are closer to 9 inches tall. What I like most about them is that the upper straps secure them so well. Really gives you confidence when you put your foot down in all kinds of weather. And under jeans they like like a pair of rugged engineers. Great boots, IMHO.