"Faded ring" around hat crown...

[stetsonofagun]

Has anyone else experienced a faded ring around the crown on an old felt hat? I'm assuming it is from storage. Maybe something the cardboard does to the felt over time? Either way, I would like to be rid of this on one of my hats. Has anyone figured out a remedy to cure this? Thank you.

- Andrew

 

[Frunobulax]

Can you post a photo for clarification? Not certain what you may be talking about. Is this after you open the crown (ghost bash)?


Sent directly from my mind to yours

 

[stetsonofagun]

Like this. I've noticed it on a couple hats.

- Andrew

 

[fedoralover]

It's from the sweatband and there is nothing you can do about it except have a wider ribbon put on to cover it up. I've had it on numerous vintage hats and it doesn't come out.

fedoralover

 

[Frunobulax]

It's from the sweatband and there is nothing you can do about it except have a wider ribbon put on to cover it up. I've had it on numerous vintage hats and it doesn't come out.

fedoralover

I believe yes, fading from sweat over a period of time. And if it's fading, not a sweat stain, cleaning won't help. Call it "character" and enjoy the hat!

 

[stetsonofagun]

How would it be the sweat band when there is no evidence on the inside liner or felt? This hat has very little evidence of having been sweated in compared to other hats I have.

- Andrew

 

[DJH]

Andrew, I've seen the sweatband effect on thin ribbon hats many times, often without any evidence of staining on the liner.

As the guys have mentioned, it is pretty much impossible to get rid of - I've sold several hats that had this because I just got annoyed. Others just live with it and put it down to patina.

 

[stetsonofagun]

Well, poop. Has anyone figured out how it happens, exactly?

Also, I was thinking about trying out some Naphtha on the hats. I guess it won't make much difference on this one.

- Andrew

 

[Rogera]

I've wondered if the line isn't due too having other hats stacked on top of the hat in question or the faded hat being stacked on top of another hat for many years causing pressure between the sweat and felt and causing the"fading"

 

[alanfgag]

I think Roger's got it... the result of a spacer ring used to separate hats when they were stacked and stored. I have a theory that if you reverse the spacer and cover the other part of the crown and leave for 50-60 years it will even out the discoloration. Younger members, please try this and let us know if it works.

 

[moontheloon]

definitely stacking

I have an interesting story about this very thing

in 2008 while on tour we played a venue in Houston
the venue was in a building that was a department store from the 1930s through 1960
they had turned the 2nd and 3rd floors into sort of a "green room" area for the bands with pool tables and couches and the like.
but the cool thing was that the walls were lined with shelves all the way to the ceiling still pretty much completely stocked with merchandise from the department store ... all 100% dead stock and unworn ... AMAZING!!!
pretty much gave me a heart attack

there was a big sign as you walked up the stairs urging ... DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING ON SHELVES! ...

I didn't follow the rules very closely

the second floor was pretty much all women shoes ... completely untouched in the boxes and flawless old stock aside from lots of dust on the slightly warped boxes

the third floor was all mens shoes , ties, shirts .... and the kicker ... HATS !!!

stacks and stacks of hats ... the JACKPOT ... all still stacked in color coordinated rows ... probably 40 or 50 hats

nothing was for sale and the venue protected this stuff with its life ... it was now the charm.. the decor

anyway ... I did touch the merch and did look at some of the hats ... and every single one of them aside from the very top hat had this very faded ring that we are discussing here right where the hat on top sat

I don't remember the name of the venue or the street that it was on ... but I can look at our old itinerary and find out ...

it was on a main street that had a train running down the center of it ... and the store front had the double inset glass doors with the initials of the old department store in small tile in front of the doors

very cool

I have a few pictures of all of this on an old flash drive somewhere ... gotta dig them out

 

[TheDane]

I think Roger's got it... the result of a spacer ring used to separate hats when they were stacked and stored. I have a theory that if you reverse the spacer and cover the other part of the crown and leave for 50-60 years it will even out the discoloration. Younger members, please try this and let us know if it works.

It sounds quite plausible, that a foam-rubber ring is the cause. It might not be caused by pressure, though. I believe the marks could be caused by fumes/gasses oozing from the foam-rubber over time. Chemical fumes from synthetic materials is a big problem for museums around the World. Plastic, chip-board, cardboard, plywood - there are lots of sources. Maybe also foam-rubber(?)

Perhaps the foam-rubber ring is not good for long time storing after all. It would be bad news for a lot of wearers, collectors and dealers. I'm afraid, Alan has a good point in the 50 years of research, though

 

[stetsonofagun]

That is plausible. I just wonder why the color is always faded, instead of stained.

- Andrew

 

[TheDane]

I don't know what caused it, so I don't know why the hat seems faded and not stained. I'm just guessing like everyone else

If indeed it is a chemical reaction, we would have to know exactly what chemical caused it. Even then we would also have to know how that specific chemical interacts with the specific dye used on the hat. I appreciate your faith in our knowledge, but here we're pretty much beyond mine

 

[fedoralover]

Either way, you have 3 options,
1. get rid of the hat.
2. live with the ring visible.
3. have a wider ribbon put on to cover it.

If you ever buy a hat online, always try to look closely at the crown just above the brim. I've seen this ring on dozens of hats and the seller will seldom will mention it.

fedoralover

 

[Lean'n'mean]

. I just wonder why the color is always faded, instead of stained

Could it not be that the spacer is porous & absorbs the dye in the felt ?

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Either way, you have 3 options,
1. get rid of the hat.
2. live with the ring visible.
3. have a wider ribbon put on to cover it.

There is a 4th, leave/wear the hat in the sun until it bleaches white.

 

[tommyK]

That is plausible. I just wonder why the color is always faded, instead of stained.

- Andrew

Sometimes it is stained;

I don't know if it is apparent in this pic but this hat has a slight orangey brown stain that might be a transfer from the sweatband that sat upon it for some time I'd guess

 

[Frunobulax]

As someone who does deal with the interactions of chemicals and materials for a living, the off-gassing from the foam sounds very plausible, and I had not thought of that at all. All such materials - carpets, foam rubbers, insulation, etc. will off-gas by-products for a period of time. There have been studies on the off-gassing of such things as formaldehyde from building materials and their effects on human health and the environment. Certainly something like that could interact with the dyes in the felt, causing discoloration. Or even, as Moon's example shows, just being exposed to a different environment by being partially covered over a period of time.

For my part, if I like the hat, I'd live with it. I don't think that naphtha is going to help in this situation, as the dyed felt itself has likely undergone a chemical reaction of which there is no return.

Now Anthony, about that department store in Houston and the hats. We could mount an expedition, with high-tech gadgetry, like Tom Cruise in MI, to break in and recover those hats!

 

[alanfgag]

Sunlight, acidity and off-gassing from a spacer are likely culprits.