Dr Doran
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dhermann1 said:
I handwrote an angry letter to Donald Rumsfelt about this problem a few years ago. No reply.
Do I owe him an apology now?
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Exciting archaeological discoveries....
- Thread starter Dr Doran
- Start date
I handwrote an angry letter to Donald Rumsfelt about this problem a few years ago. No reply.
Do I owe him an apology now?
dhermann1
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Speaking of new analytical approaches to ancient history, I just started reading Victor Davis Hanson's book "A War Like No Other", about the Peloponnesion War. Looks like a pretty grim read.
Dr Doran
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dhermann1 said:
Hansen is a really nice guy. I met him when he came to Berkeley to do a talk -- sponsored by the ROTC and not the classics dept, since he is persona non grata at the latter because they are all radical leftists and he is not. He told me about the creeps at grad school with him at Stanford. Some of my professors know him -- well, one of them does, fairly well at least.
His work on agriculture in ancient Greece is a classic and even people who hate him admit this. His scholarship has always been solid. His pro-Iraq war stance does alienate people -- but he is a nice person no matter what. A bit of a maverick in my profession.
If you get very engrossed in that book, next for you is Donald Kagan's four-volume set on the same war. It's just great.
I delivered a lecture on the ill-starred Sicilian Expedition a year ago for a professor, in front of her class. That was a ball (the lecture, not the expedition, which was one of the wretchedest for the Athenians and basically destroyed their fleet).
dhermann1
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After this I have to dig out the book on the history of the Royal Navy someone lent me. Then maybe some Francis Parkman, then . . . we'll see. It's all brain candy.
Having been to Greece at age 16 (my mom took us on a 6 countries in 17 tour, best thing she ever did) I can visualize all the places he mentions.
I just finished 1759 by Frank McLynn. Much of that also takes places in locations (upstate New York) that I'm intimately familiar with. It's so great to read the history of places that you really know, makes it all come alive.
OK, back to topic.
Having been to Greece at age 16 (my mom took us on a 6 countries in 17 tour, best thing she ever did) I can visualize all the places he mentions.
I just finished 1759 by Frank McLynn. Much of that also takes places in locations (upstate New York) that I'm intimately familiar with. It's so great to read the history of places that you really know, makes it all come alive.
OK, back to topic.
As Crom wills it...
http://englishrussia.com/?p=1206
Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=820571&t=k&om=1
http://englishrussia.com/?p=1206
Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=820571&t=k&om=1
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dhermann1
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Very interesting. It's right on the border if Siberia and Outer Mongolia, so any number of ethnic groups could have built it over a vast period of time.
I'm not sure exactly where the old silk road route lies, but I wonder if it has any connection to that. It also has a very regimented layout to its structure, which makes me wonder if it was a remote outpost for a faiirly well organized power (China?), rather than the center of a smaller local culture.
I also wonder if there was some sort of causeway built from the big main entrance to the adjoining island. It would mean that supplies, farming (?) could have existed on the other island, which would be accessible, but the gates could be locked in case of attack.
Some really idiotic comments were left under the original story. Makes you appreciate the manners of loungers.
Edit: I just bookmarked that englishrussia.com website. It's full of amazing stuff.
I'm not sure exactly where the old silk road route lies, but I wonder if it has any connection to that. It also has a very regimented layout to its structure, which makes me wonder if it was a remote outpost for a faiirly well organized power (China?), rather than the center of a smaller local culture.
I also wonder if there was some sort of causeway built from the big main entrance to the adjoining island. It would mean that supplies, farming (?) could have existed on the other island, which would be accessible, but the gates could be locked in case of attack.
Some really idiotic comments were left under the original story. Makes you appreciate the manners of loungers.
Edit: I just bookmarked that englishrussia.com website. It's full of amazing stuff.
Dr Doran
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Thera/Santorini ....
From <http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=7093518&maindocimg=1564949&service=100>:
=====================================================================================
Thera volcano in 1613 BC
Two olive branches buried by a Minoan-era eruption of the volcano on
the island of Thera (modern-day Santorini) have enabled precise
radiocarbon dating of the catastrophe to 1613 BC, with an error margin
of plus or minus 10 years, according to two researchers who presented
conclusions of their previously published research during an event on
Tuesday at the Danish Archaeological Institute of Athens.
Speaking at an event entitled "The Enigma of Dating the Minoan
Eruption - Data from Santorini and Egypt", the study's authors, Dr.
Walter Friedrich of the Danish University of Aarhus and Dr. Walter
Kutschera of the Austrian University of Vienna, said data left by the
branch of an olive tree with 72 annular growth rings was used for
dating via the radiocarbon method, while a second olive branch --
found just nine metres away from the first -- was unearthed in July
2007 and has not yet been analysed.
The researchers said both olive tree branches were found near a Bronze
Age man-made wall, giving the impression that they were part of an
olive grove situated near a settlement very close to the edge of
Santorini's current world-famous Caldera. The two trees were found
standing when unearthed, and apparently had been covered by the Theran
pumice immediately after the volcano's eruption.
According to the two scientists, other radiocarbon testing from
archaeological locations on Santorini and the surrounding islands, as
well as at Tel el-Dab'a in the Nile delta in Egypt, corroborate the
dating based on the olive tree.
On the other hand, as the two researchers pointed out, archaeological
evidence linked with the Historical Dating of Ancient Egypt indicate
that the Thera eruption must have occurred after the start of the New
Kingdom in Egypt in 1530 BC.
The two researchers said their find (olive tree) represents a serious
contradiction between the results of the scientific method
(radiocarbon dating) and scholarly work in the humanities
(history-archaeology), with both sides holding strong arguments to
support their conclusions.
The radiocarbon dating places the cataclysmic eruption, blamed for
heralding the end to the Minoan civilisation, a century earlier than
previous scientific finds.
From <http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=7093518&maindocimg=1564949&service=100>:
=====================================================================================
Thera volcano in 1613 BC
Two olive branches buried by a Minoan-era eruption of the volcano on
the island of Thera (modern-day Santorini) have enabled precise
radiocarbon dating of the catastrophe to 1613 BC, with an error margin
of plus or minus 10 years, according to two researchers who presented
conclusions of their previously published research during an event on
Tuesday at the Danish Archaeological Institute of Athens.
Speaking at an event entitled "The Enigma of Dating the Minoan
Eruption - Data from Santorini and Egypt", the study's authors, Dr.
Walter Friedrich of the Danish University of Aarhus and Dr. Walter
Kutschera of the Austrian University of Vienna, said data left by the
branch of an olive tree with 72 annular growth rings was used for
dating via the radiocarbon method, while a second olive branch --
found just nine metres away from the first -- was unearthed in July
2007 and has not yet been analysed.
The researchers said both olive tree branches were found near a Bronze
Age man-made wall, giving the impression that they were part of an
olive grove situated near a settlement very close to the edge of
Santorini's current world-famous Caldera. The two trees were found
standing when unearthed, and apparently had been covered by the Theran
pumice immediately after the volcano's eruption.
According to the two scientists, other radiocarbon testing from
archaeological locations on Santorini and the surrounding islands, as
well as at Tel el-Dab'a in the Nile delta in Egypt, corroborate the
dating based on the olive tree.
On the other hand, as the two researchers pointed out, archaeological
evidence linked with the Historical Dating of Ancient Egypt indicate
that the Thera eruption must have occurred after the start of the New
Kingdom in Egypt in 1530 BC.
The two researchers said their find (olive tree) represents a serious
contradiction between the results of the scientific method
(radiocarbon dating) and scholarly work in the humanities
(history-archaeology), with both sides holding strong arguments to
support their conclusions.
The radiocarbon dating places the cataclysmic eruption, blamed for
heralding the end to the Minoan civilisation, a century earlier than
previous scientific finds.
Diamondback
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Interesting--Charles Pellegrino (Unearthing Atlantis) thought the kB! was around 1627 BC. Pretty close, for that far back in time...
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katiemakeup
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Great read! Oh to be an archaeologist...
dhermann1
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mike
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Story said:
http://englishrussia.com/?p=1206
Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=820571&t=k&om=1
that doesn't look too far off from this google earth discovery that is thought to be possibly Atlantis...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2255989.ece
dhermann1
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If you followed some of the side bar links on that story, it turns out that those lines are artifacts of the sonar system used to map the ocean floor.
mike
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dhermann1 said:
I did, and then I chose to wholeheartedly disregard them
Experts trying to decipher ancient language
By BARRY HATTON – 1 day ago
ALMODOVAR, Portugal (AP) — When archaeologists on a dig in southern Portugal last year flipped over a heavy chunk of slate and saw writing not used for more than 2,500 years, they were elated.
The enigmatic pattern of inscribed symbols curled symmetrically around the upper part of the rough-edged, yellowish stone tablet and coiled into the middle in a decorative style typical of an extinct Iberian language called Southwest Script.
"We didn't break into applause, but almost," says Amilcar Guerra, a University of Lisbon lecturer overseeing the excavation. "It's an extraordinary thing."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gviH8MrBKH1ZmFJT-konqjBCs7XQD96KNS400
By BARRY HATTON – 1 day ago
ALMODOVAR, Portugal (AP) — When archaeologists on a dig in southern Portugal last year flipped over a heavy chunk of slate and saw writing not used for more than 2,500 years, they were elated.
The enigmatic pattern of inscribed symbols curled symmetrically around the upper part of the rough-edged, yellowish stone tablet and coiled into the middle in a decorative style typical of an extinct Iberian language called Southwest Script.
"We didn't break into applause, but almost," says Amilcar Guerra, a University of Lisbon lecturer overseeing the excavation. "It's an extraordinary thing."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gviH8MrBKH1ZmFJT-konqjBCs7XQD96KNS400
dhermann1
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The real Garden of Eden?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html
Martinis at 8
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9192722&postcount=68
I've been riding my motorcycle down into Mexico lately. Click on the above link and you will see part of my ride report at ADVrider.com where I post as Pedro Navaja (that's Spanish for Mack the Knife). In that extract you will see a recovered spine from a dinosaur. Lots of digging going on in the Coahuila desert.
I've been riding my motorcycle down into Mexico lately. Click on the above link and you will see part of my ride report at ADVrider.com where I post as Pedro Navaja (that's Spanish for Mack the Knife). In that extract you will see a recovered spine from a dinosaur. Lots of digging going on in the Coahuila desert.
mike
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dhermann1 said:
This is the biggest news I've ever heard! I kept double checking to make sure the site wasn't Pravda! lol
Gatsby84
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dhermann1 said:
I think the Nov/Dec '08 issue of Archaeology magazine had this site as a cover story, if I remember correctly. I don't recall if they referred to it as 'Eden' though. At least those photos of stones ring a bell... I'll have to dig it out to confirm it.
-Allen
Hugh Beaumont
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The Book of Enoch.
Lost for centuries until a copy was reported to be in Ethiopia. An explorer in the 17th century went looking for it and found THREE copies. Said to predate Genesis.
Brought them back and had it translated into English.
They even found fragments of The Book of Enoch as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Awesome read.
Lost for centuries until a copy was reported to be in Ethiopia. An explorer in the 17th century went looking for it and found THREE copies. Said to predate Genesis.
Brought them back and had it translated into English.
They even found fragments of The Book of Enoch as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Awesome read.
shortbow
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I've always thought that the theory that the extinction of NA mega fauna being a result of over harvesting by early hunters was absurd. Now, a new documentary I caught on PBS this week lays the cause at the door of a large comet or asteroid strike. Many had voice objections to this notion on the grounds that no major crater has ever been found, but new experiments indicate the strike was broken up in the atmosphere, causing a shotgun-like pattern that created thousands of small craters eroded away over time. I cannot relate all the science here, but the evidence is quite compelling. Also seems to be the reason the Clovis remains disappear at the same time. Anybody interested could probably pick up the story by googling PBS and looking for the most recent NOVA episode. Did you know that the South American giant sloth was a big around as an elephant and standing on its hind legs was as tall as a giraffe? No, I didn't either.
