Evening wear inquiry

[lci419]

I just got a real nice 40's evening wear ensemble (dinner jacket, trousers) in my big boy size off of eBay for $15. Pretty thrilled with that, though I have a couple of questions. By sheer coincidence I was watching a movie starring Edward G. Robinson titled "Scarlett Street" the other night. One of the early scenes is a dinner party where 8-10 men are wearing their dinner jackets etc. My questions are, what type of hat and overcoat would be worn with this attire? I always presumed that a black Homburg or top hat would be the standard headwear, as well as a black overcoat or opera cape. However in the movie, two or three of the characters (particularly E.G.R.) wear a non black fedora with their evening attire and seemingly any sort of overcoat owned. Any thoughts on this?

 

[dhermann1]

This question comes up frequently. Most of the guys here will tell you a black homburg is required with a dinner jacket. The evidence from films of the era is so strong that this is not the case, that we really have to go by what we see.
You'll see Bogie or Edward G., or any of the others with a gray fedora and a trench coat over their tux. No big deal. The dinner jacket, aka Tuxedo, was originally intended as a LESS formal style of dress, as compared to white tie and tails, so lots of leeway has always been built in to the look.
If you want to get classically spiffy, however, a Chesterfield coat is the thing. It has a very fine dark gray herring bone material, with a fly over the front buttons, and a black velvet collar.
Black overcoat I don't think would be used at all, and the opera cape is really for white tie. But really, if you look at images of the era, most men in top hat and tails will be wearing a dark over coat with them. The opera cape is really for Paris inthe 1890's.
The other details you don't mention are the shirt and the tie. I think most experts here (e.g. Tomasso or Marc Chevalier) would say fold down collar with pleated front, and be sure to have a self tie bow tie in the same material as the jacket's lapels.
And if you can find patent leather shoes, so much the better. But black cap toe oxfords (NOT wingtips!) highly shined are thoroughly acceptable.
And as far as the question of waistcoat (white or black) or cummerbund, there are about 11 threads here that kick that one around.
PICS!!!

 

[lci419]

Thanks dhermann, that pretty much confirms my suspicions/observations. Movies as a source of documentation can be a dicey thing. Clearly the costuming etc. in the Erroll Flynn classic "Robin Hood" bears as much resemblance to reality as Trekkie costumes do to WWII uniforms. However, I really have to believe that clothing and how items were worn in movies from that era which are set in their contemporary time HAS to be somewhat accurate. Otherwise, audiences would perceive something unnatural was taking place on screen.

Your other notes on evening/formal wear are well taken and I've been reading up on that as well. Will post pix ASAP, but the whole thing was rather a lark. My typical "vintage look" usually involves a pair of work boots, work shirt, overalls, and fedora or flat cap. Ran across the tux and figured I couldn't lose for $15 even though it really wasn't on my radar screen to buy one. Now I'll just have to spend more money buying accessories for that ensemble as well...thanks Fedora Lounge, for sending me to the poor farm. lol

 

[dhermann1]

Hah! Welcome to the club. Curse you Fedora Lounge!!! lol

 

[Tailor Tom]

My thoughts...

I think dhermann hit it pretty much right on the mark. I too think a Chesterfield would be about the most versatile for a gentleman. I would think a subtle herringbone would be deemed quite classic, charcoal or brown. I admit to knowing very little in the way of hats, so defer to dhermann on this.

One must also remember that most men simply didn't have a huge wardrobe to choose from daily, and that included top coats. It is usually a matter of costs. Top coats are an investment and used for years. So, having a coat in every color choice and a cape, etc, just isn't an option.

I currently have a rather classic, if updated single breasted top coat for evening dress, I made this a bit longer than traditional ( I wanted to be covered in this cold climate here), and it is black in baby Alpaca. I also have a vintage military trench, which I added a liner for winter seasons. These tend to do me fine for now. But, I will make myself a cape in the future (I've always wanted one), and a new car coat, I'm thinking tweed of some sort with raglan sleeves for ease of movement while driving.

Good luck to you.

 

[Edward]

One must also remember that most men simply didn't have a huge wardrobe to choose from daily, and that included top coats. It is usually a matter of costs. Top coats are an investment and used for years. So, having a coat in every color choice and a cape, etc, just isn't an option.

All too often forgotten today. Folks back in the day didn't collect, covet or downright fetishise what we now regard as "vintage" - they were just clothes. And probably not all that many could afford much of a wardrobe either.

I used to wear a black wool trenchcoat with evening wear, long since outgrown. These days it tends to be whichever of my dark overcoats, though last week I went out in black tie with a khaki Grenfell mac over my arm. I tend to prefer a black homberg with black tie (never a top hat - without the balancing factor of the longer tailcoat, a tophat looks wrong to my eye. YMMV, of course. As noted above, though, this wasn't a standard back in the day. Back when most men wore a hat every day, the most of them probably had just that: a hat. Maybe the sort of guys who wore black tie regularly might have had a couple... But if a fedora worked for Bogie.....

If you're keen on a homberg, though - and they do look great- have a look out for a vintage one. They're less popular than vintage fedoras, so often you can find one much cheaper than the equivalent fedora. I have three beautiful examples, none of which I paid over GBP20 for (one Dobbs, one Herbert Johnson for Brooks Brothers, the other I can't recall the brand offhand).

 

[lci419]

One must also remember that most men simply didn't have a huge wardrobe to choose from daily, and that included top coats. It is usually a matter of costs. Top coats are an investment and used for years. So, having a coat in every color choice and a cape, etc, just isn't an option.

This definitely is one of the most sage observations I've seen on this site and one which I have reflected on for years in a 19th Century context. We as collectors, and dare I say "preeners" (not a swipe at anyone as I do it too ) who actually wear vintage clothing love having a variety of items, colors, fabrics and textures to choose from. As a rule like to have something "new" to show off at each outing even though from a period perspective, this would not have been done by the average man. While I would suggest our vanity is the primary driver in this cause, availability must be a close second. How many of us have the willpower to resist a fine vintage garment that we like...in our size? I know anytime I pass something up that I like, can wear, and can afford, I'm kicking myself forever for missing out. I may be broke, but at least I have some cool stuff to show for it

Back to my original post though. Truthfully, I am glad at others observations because I really don't care for the style of a Homburg on me. Seeing Edward G. Robinson wear a fedora with said ensemble makes me much happier. As for the coat, I have a late '30s topcoat in a dark Prussian blue that I absolutely adore. Calf length with hidden buttons in a style that I believe to be referred to as a "Prince of Wales" coat.

 

[Edw8ri]

The Homburg is the hat of choice for a tuxedo. However, if wearing a white dinner jacket in the South during the summer months, a nice panama is the choice. If one is in full dress (cutaway during the day or white tie in the evening) then you could wear a homburg, but a top hat is really the better option.

For overcoats, you really want a black double breasted overcoat. It would be worn with a white or yellow (if you're a sport) silk scarf. But finding a black doublebreasted overcoat is not easy. And let's face it, that is not a very versatile overcoat either. Hence, black or charcoal single breasted may be the best choice. I would prefer one with covered buttons. And I think a Chesterfield also works, but they can be harder to find.

 

[BinkieBaumont]

"I once had a lovely Black Tux, and pants, that I never, ever , wore once, I was down on my luck about 20 years ago and sold it to a "Fancy Dress Shop" easiest $50.00 I ever made and absolutely no regrets, if I ever require it ( which I doubt) I know where to find it!"

http://www.memorylaneclothing.com/