Engel & Co. Hats

[DJH]

 

[avedwards]

Im aware of that my friend. Im under the impression that even most Brits consider the use of the word "whilst" in contemporary non fiction writing a bit archaic and pretentious. Whilst not minding it personally, I consider it a slightly "affected" speech pattern.

Im aware of that my friend. Im under the impression that even most Brits consider the use of the word "whilst" in contemporary non fiction writing a bit archaic and pretentious. Whilst not minding it personally, I consider it a slightly "affected" speech pattern.

I'm surprised that on a forum dedicated to hats, clothing and culture from a bygone era someone would suggest that the use of slightly old fashioned language is affected or pretentious. I occasionally like to use more old fashioned language but this is due to my appreciation of how colourful the English language has the potential to be rather than any desire to appear affected or pretentious.

Perhaps we can now return to the actual topic of the thread?

 

[TheDane]

I cannot compare my Engel & Co hat to those made by other hatters since I don't own any other custom hats, nor would I want to attempt any such comparison. I therefore simply stated that it is of a comparable quality level to some of the finer vintage hats I have owned.

I do however understand that Nicholas didn't just use a standard Fepsa felt but got them to custom make him a felt to his specifications (in terms of both finish / quality and colour).

In terms of sizing I elected to just give Nicholas an accurate measurement and asked him to use that, as I wanted to avoid shipping any sort of conforming device across the Atlantic and back.

I asked for a comparison on the quality, because you wrote this about the price:

"I consider it reasonable given the high quality and the specific colour that other hatters do not offer."

- but the closest you get is still, that it compares to "some of the finer vintage hats" you've owned. Not knowing what they are, you haven't made me any wiser.

Your answer to the question on the measurement process, that you wanted to avoid shipping any sort of conforming device across the Atlantic and back. Is such a device at all an option? I can't see, he mentions it anywhere.

 

[metropd]

Hello TheDane, the fur used is the same fur used on Optimo's 1000 range. I have yet to aqquire a conformature. In my opinion about the quality of dress hat weights the Fepsa beaver felt is vastly superior to Winchester. Also, from seeing Winchester felts for over a decade Fepsa has much better quality control. My hats are completey handmade including the liner sweat and bound edge is done by hand. (No Machine) I worked with Fepsa to create a felt that feels and handles like a Pre-War Dunlap.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I'm surprised that on a forum dedicated to hats, clothing and culture from a bygone era someone would suggest that the use of slightly old fashioned language is affected or pretentious. I occasionally like to use more old fashioned language but this is due to my appreciation of how colourful the English language has the potential to be rather than any desire to appear affected or pretentious.

Perhaps we can now return to the actual topic of the thread?

Sometimes we occasionally stray off topic.

 

[avedwards]

I asked for a comparison on the quality, because you wrote this about the price:

"I consider it reasonable given the high quality and the specific colour that other hatters do not offer."

- but the closest you get is still, that it compares to "some of the finer vintage hats" you've owned. Not knowing what they are, you haven't made me any wiser.

Your answer to the question on the measurement process, that you wanted to avoid shipping any sort of conforming device across the Atlantic and back. Is such a device at all an option? I can't see, he mentions it anywhere.

Apologies for the vagueness. The vintage hats I consider my Engel & Co fedora of comparable quality to are a 1950s Stetson Twenty Sovereign and a 1950s beaver "kitten finish" Resistol Homburg. I appreciate that those are two very specific hats that you may or may not be familiar with but that is all I have available to make a direct side by side comparison with.

I also appreciate that my comment on sizing is not very helpful given the question I was asked but I can relay my own experience as a customer where I chose to just give a measurement. For what it's worth, the hat fit me perfectly from the beginning, though like most hats I have ever owned it became more comfortable over time.

I hope that gives at least some clarification to my earlier answer.

 

[belfastboy]

Whilst enjoying this conversation abt Engle hats, Im wondering about the use of the word "whilst" in the OP. Does one still use the word "whilst" whilst engaged in contemporary conversation or writting...?

I use it in my correspondence and admit it is an affectation on my part. I love the slightly archaic quality of it,.....suits my age!

 

[belfastboy]

Sometimes we occasionally stray off topic.

Straying off topic is one of the things I appreciate about the forum!

 

[belfastboy]

Apologies for the vagueness. The vintage hats I consider my Engel & Co fedora of comparable quality to are a 1950s Stetson Twenty Sovereign and a 1950s beaver "kitten finish" Resistol Homburg. I appreciate that those are two very specific hats that you may or may not be familiar with but that is all I have available to make a direct side by side comparison with.

I also appreciate that my comment on sizing is not very helpful given the question I was asked but I can relay my own experience as a customer where I chose to just give a measurement. For what it's worth, the hat fit me perfectly from the beginning, though like most hats I have ever owned it became more comfortable over time.

I hope that gives at least some clarification to my earlier answer.

I find the entire quality/price conversation fascinating. I have fine vintage, run of the mill, and bespoke hats. My go to hatter is Mike at NW Hats as I think his hats are great, but Gannon hats are damn fine too. The only way I will satisfy my curiosity is to see in person, so I have ordered hats from Drexler and VS to see what a hat that costs twice as much as Mike's will be like. I won't find out til the Autumn and will let you know my thoughts. So to contemplate what a $900 hat is like, more than 4 times the cost of the two Mike's offerings, is hard to fathom. And as I really don't need any more hats alas I will never likely get to touch an Engel hat to see if I can discern a diff. But I still might bite and order a BlackSheep and wait the 8 month lead time.

 

[1mach1]

I think the thing here is that he does NOT use Winchester bodies, which are no comparison to the other offerings. I speak only of the hare. Winchester hare bodies are rubbish. I have one, and wish I never made the purchase. Also, he has a custom color, and is a one man operation. If he can sell his hats for a mint, good on him! They are too rich for my blood, but if I had the funds, I may just bite. He has a great eye for that vintage look. Keep on, @metropd

 

[DJH]

To be honest, I don't see the problem here. If you think Nicholas charges too much for his hats, the best thing is to not buy one.

I don't want to spend that much personally, which is why I've never bought an Optimo 1000 (although my wife offered to get me one for my 60th birthday) or one of Art's $1k+ hats.

 

[RJR]

To be honest, I don't see the problem here. If you think Nicholas charges too much for his hats, the best thing is to not buy one.

I don't want to spend that much personally, which is why I've never bought an Optimo 1000 (although my wife offered to get me one for my 60th birthday) or one of Art's $1k+ hats.

+1

 

[Daniele Tanto]

o be honest, I don't see the problem here. If you think Nicholas charges too much for his hats, the best thing is to not buy one.

I don't want to spend that much personally, which is why I've never bought an Optimo 1000 (although my wife offered to get me one for my 60th birthday) or one of Art's $1k+ hats.

Mindful!

 

[Bill Hughes]

I recently acquired one of these Engel & Co. fedoras in slate blue. So I thought I would offer up my opinion and first impressions of the felt and workmanship. First off, I must agree with the original thought behind this thread. The price, in my mind, is too high. Currently the maker/seller lists these for $1500. I paid $300 for the one I got. I bought this used directly from the maker. He says that the fur used is the same as is used on the Optimo 1000 range. Of course I have no way of proving this one way or another. But, I will say that this Fepsa hood seems to me to be of better quality than the Winchester hats I have. (I have 7 beavers from Art Fawcett, 2 from Black Sheep, 2 from Gannon, 2 from Northwest, and 1 Penman). I assume all of those are Winchester hoods. While I think the felt is better and the color is unique - I don’t think it justifies the price difference.

The workmanship is good but is not the quality I would expect from a custom hatter. Especially if I paid $1500. The ribbon material itself is lacking compared to the vintage ribbons I have on the other 14 customs I own. The brim is not even all the way around varying about 1/8”. The crown is 6 1/2” with the brim of 2 1/2” to 2 5/8”. The liner and sweatband are fine. I do not know the age of the hat so this could be an early version for the maker. Meaning the quality may have improved over time.

I was a bit surprised at how the hat was packed for shipping. It arrived pretty much crushed into a box not tall enough for the crown. I was planning on sending it off to be re-blocked and have the ribbon changed, so it really didn’t matter. But I had not mentioned to the seller that I was going to do anything to the hat so it should have been shipped ready to wear. I’ve sold $60 hats that I’ve packaged better.

The hat is currently with Mike Miller. I have not decided exactly what I’m wanting. It will be interesting to see what Mike and I come up with. I snapped a few pictures before sending it off to Mike.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

I recently acquired one of these Engel & Co. fedoras in slate blue. So I thought I would offer up my opinion and first impressions of the felt and workmanship. First off, I must agree with the original thought behind this thread. The price, in my mind, is too high. Currently the maker/seller lists these for $1500. I paid $300 for the one I got. I bought this used directly from the maker. He says that the fur used is the same as is used on the Optimo 1000 range. Of course I have no way of proving this one way or another. But, I will say that this Fepsa hood seems to me to be of better quality than the Winchester hats I have. (I have 7 beavers from Art Fawcett, 2 from Black Sheep, 2 from Gannon, 2 from Northwest, and 1 Penman). I assume all of those are Winchester hoods. While I think the felt is better and the color is unique - I don’t think it justifies the price difference.

The workmanship is good but is not the quality I would expect from a custom hatter. Especially if I paid $1500. The ribbon material itself is lacking compared to the vintage ribbons I have on the other 14 customs I own. The brim is not even all the way around varying about 1/8”. The crown is 6 1/2” with the brim of 2 1/2” to 2 5/8”. The liner and sweatband are fine. I do not know the age of the hat so this could be an early version for the maker. Meaning the quality may have improved over time.

I was a bit surprised at how the hat was packed for shipping. It arrived pretty much crushed into a box not tall enough for the crown. I was planning on sending it off to be re-blocked and have the ribbon changed, so it really didn’t matter. But I had not mentioned to the seller that I was going to do anything to the hat so it should have been shipped ready to wear. I’ve sold $60 hats that I’ve packaged better.

The hat is currently with Mike Miller. I have not decided exactly what I’m wanting. It will be interesting to see what Mike and I come up with. I snapped a few pictures before sending it off to Mike.

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Thanks, Bill

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

 

[Daniele Tanto]

I recently acquired one of these Engel & Co. fedoras in slate blue. So I thought I would offer up my opinion and first impressions of the felt and workmanship. First off, I must agree with the original thought behind this thread. The price, in my mind, is too high. Currently the maker/seller lists these for $1500. I paid $300 for the one I got. I bought this used directly from the maker. He says that the fur used is the same as is used on the Optimo 1000 range. Of course I have no way of proving this one way or another. But, I will say that this Fepsa hood seems to me to be of better quality than the Winchester hats I have. (I have 7 beavers from Art Fawcett, 2 from Black Sheep, 2 from Gannon, 2 from Northwest, and 1 Penman). I assume all of those are Winchester hoods. While I think the felt is better and the color is unique - I don’t think it justifies the price difference.

The workmanship is good but is not the quality I would expect from a custom hatter. Especially if I paid $1500. The ribbon material itself is lacking compared to the vintage ribbons I have on the other 14 customs I own. The brim is not even all the way around varying about 1/8”. The crown is 6 1/2” with the brim of 2 1/2” to 2 5/8”. The liner and sweatband are fine. I do not know the age of the hat so this could be an early version for the maker. Meaning the quality may have improved over time.

I was a bit surprised at how the hat was packed for shipping. It arrived pretty much crushed into a box not tall enough for the crown. I was planning on sending it off to be re-blocked and have the ribbon changed, so it really didn’t matter. But I had not mentioned to the seller that I was going to do anything to the hat so it should have been shipped ready to wear. I’ve sold $60 hats that I’ve packaged better.

The hat is currently with Mike Miller. I have not decided exactly what I’m wanting. It will be interesting to see what Mike and I come up with. I snapped a few pictures before sending it off to Mike.

Bill, honestly I think you did the right thing by sending it to an hatter, as it is in photography it has some "little flaws"

 

[Tukwila]

I honestly haven't been impressed by any of the pictures I've seen of these hats.

Im glad you got this one for less, Bill. Hopefully, Mike can straighten things up and make this one pop for you.

 

[Garrett]

That crown appears cartoonishly high in its relation to the brim. Most extreme dimensions don’t look quite right on the average joe. Hopefully Mike will sort all this out at which point it’ll become a $450 hat. Still, cheaper by far than his $1500 retail price.

In late 2009 I bought a 50s Borsalino Peluche from Nick - nice guy to deal with and I loved the hat but the packaging was the same as your experience crushed crown and all.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

That crown appears cartoonishly high in its relation to the brim. Most extreme dimensions don’t look quite right on the average joe. Hopefully Mike will sort all this out at which point it’ll become a $450 hat. Still, cheaper by far than his $1500 retail price.

In late 2009 I bought a 50s Borsalino Peluche from Nick - nice guy to deal with and I loved the hat but the packaging was the same as your experience crushed crown and all.

I bought one like Bill's from Nick. It doesn't matter how he sends it, I will take it to my hatter anyway. I think I will ask Ignacio to make me a Park Avenue Optimo in powder blue.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

 

[Bill Hughes]

I recently acquired one of these Engel & Co. fedoras in slate blue. So I thought I would offer up my opinion and first impressions of the felt and workmanship. First off, I must agree with the original thought behind this thread. The price, in my mind, is too high. Currently the maker/seller lists these for $1500. I paid $300 for the one I got. I bought this used directly from the maker. He says that the fur used is the same as is used on the Optimo 1000 range. Of course I have no way of proving this one way or another. But, I will say that this Fepsa hood seems to me to be of better quality than the Winchester hats I have. (I have 7 beavers from Art Fawcett, 2 from Black Sheep, 2 from Gannon, 2 from Northwest, and 1 Penman). I assume all of those are Winchester hoods. While I think the felt is better and the color is unique - I don’t think it justifies the price difference.

The workmanship is good but is not the quality I would expect from a custom hatter. Especially if I paid $1500. The ribbon material itself is lacking compared to the vintage ribbons I have on the other 14 customs I own. The brim is not even all the way around varying about 1/8”. The crown is 6 1/2” with the brim of 2 1/2” to 2 5/8”. The liner and sweatband are fine. I do not know the age of the hat so this could be an early version for the maker. Meaning the quality may have improved over time.

I was a bit surprised at how the hat was packed for shipping. It arrived pretty much crushed into a box not tall enough for the crown. I was planning on sending it off to be re-blocked and have the ribbon changed, so it really didn’t matter. But I had not mentioned to the seller that I was going to do anything to the hat so it should have been shipped ready to wear. I’ve sold $60 hats that I’ve packaged better.

The hat is currently with Mike Miller. I have not decided exactly what I’m wanting. It will be interesting to see what Mike and I come up with. I snapped a few pictures before sending it off to Mike.

View attachment 190576 View attachment 190577 View attachment 190578 View attachment 190579 View attachment 190580 View attachment 190581 View attachment 190582 View attachment 190583 View attachment 190584 View attachment 190585

Here are the pictures Mike Miller sent. I’ll post more pictures and the specs when it arrives.