Embroidery? Screen printing? Or ...

[tonyb]

I don't know that this is appropriate to this new forum. If it ain't, it's easy enough to erase it, right?

I've been on a quest for the best way to affix my logo to liner tips -- you know, the round top panels of hat liners. I would prefer it to be embroidered, as such logos were on some vintage hat liners.

A friend with some gee-whiz sewing machines once embroidered my logo to a piece of fabric using a programmable machine made to do exactly that. Problem was, the embroidery was too thick and heavy. It has to be light so that it doesn't pull down the liner tip. My liners are made of a fabric with some stiffness. If they're put in right, they hold themselves up just fine, provided they aren't asked to do what they weren't meant to do.

I've considered screen printing, but I fear that the heat and humidity found in that microclimate inside a hat atop a person's head, and the flexing that would inevitably occur, would cause the ink to flake off. No?

I've also considered a stick-on label, printed or embroidered on some sort of fabric with an adhesive backing.

 

[hatsRme]

How about a sublimation process, Tony? I've been out of the loop on that technology for a while, (and I'm NOT telling how long!) but it's pretty durable, if feasible nowadays.

 

[tonyb]

Sublimation? I've heard that term used to describe a weather phenomenon, and I can imagine its use in describing something made sublime, but it this context I'm left scratching my shiny head. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Brad Bowers]

I received samples for my liner tips using the sublimation process, and they looked horribly cheap. Not at all what I had in mind. I ended up with woven tips, and they are heavy, but stay up for the most part. I really wanted a classic multi-color and gold tip, but was talked out of it due to the labor/expense of the registration of the different passes.

I thought I had photos of the sublimated tips, but they aren't on Photobucket. I can look when I get home early next week. Meanwhile, here's a woven tip:

 

[hatsRme]

Nothing can replicate the beauty of embroidery. As I said, it's been quite a while since I was up to snuff on the current state of sublimation printing, and at that time it was early in it's development. When did you look at it, Brad?

 

[Brad Bowers]

It was six years ago.

 

[hatsRme]

I wonder if the look has improved since then. The stability and permanence seem to be good for this application, I guess. Was that your conclusion as well?

 

[DamianM]

I screen print my logo on the top of the liner for my caps. The ink does not dry thick so there is no flaking.
A lot of early Hats did this process.
I actually have not seen many embroidered liners.

 

[tonyb]

I don't discount the possibility that what I had thought were embroidered liner tips may have actually been woven, or so Brad's post has me thinking.

I grew up around sewing. Like most folks of that time and place and social class, mending and altering and even some making of clothing (women's clothing especially) was done in our home. But I rarely sewed myself until recent years, so I know very little about it.

 

[tonyb]

I screen print my logo on the top of the liner for my caps. The ink does not dry thick so there is no flaking.
A lot of early Hats did this process.
I actually have not seen many embroidered liners.

How many colors?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Tony, the '20s to '50s Dobbs hats I have are actually embroidered. The only thing on my tips that I would consider embroidered is the gold thread. But it gives you an idea what an embroidered one might look like.

 

[DamianM]

I do one color but 2 or more can be done. Its much more advanced but its feasible. The inks used for screenprinting "stain" the image into the cloth instead of sitting on top of it. You may want to visit a screen printing shop and ask them if they can make and print your screens.

 

[hatsRme]

Good morning, and hope you're enjoying a wonderful Winter Solstice today! Raising this topic prompted me to revisit the state of the technology in sublimation printing. As I mentioned, it was a long time ago, despite the fact that the technology is relatively new in the world of printing processes. I was seeing it used to print legends onto molded plastic keyboard keycaps in the very early 80's. It was much cheaper than the previously used two-shot molding method that actually molded the letters into the top of the keys, but probably anything was cheaper than that.

Current state, if my brief peek (via Googoo) was correct, is indeed much improved; even more since your sampling Brad. However, I didn't see anything metallic printed. And I completely agree (FWIW) that the screened sample with the "gold leaf" looks exquisite.

 

[tonyb]

I do one color but 2 or more can be done. Its much more advanced but its feasible. The inks used for screenprinting "stain" the image into the cloth instead of sitting on top of it. You may want to visit a screen printing shop and ask them if they can make and print your screens.

I did some rudimentary screen printing way back in my high school days, when we walked to school through hip-deep snow, uphill both ways, etc. And I've been in commercial screen-printing shops, the places that put out T-shirts, mostly, proclaiming their wearers' identity with one professional sports team or another. So I get how it is done and why each color needs a separate screen. But, like most things, understanding how it is done and doing a good job of it oneself are two very different matters. That's among the reasons this new forum is such a swell idea. For every little step in any process, there's any number of ways to do it wrong. Those who have lots of hands-on experience know where the hazards are.

I don't know if it's my bad breath or fetid, oozing pustules or just what it is, but I've visited two businesses that screen print -- one in Tacoma, Wash., the other in Olympia -- and showed them liners and what I wanted done and got exactly nothing for my trouble. The first indicated no interest at all, the second I left with a sample liner and a business card showing my logo they left me with a promise to get back to me. A month or two or three went by without so much as a peep. Then they went out of business or relocated or something. All I know is that the storefront was vacant last time I drove past.

I checked out your caps, by the way. Nice. How long have you been doing that? How'd you get into it?

 

[Johnny J]

Tony I use this company for my logos:

http://www.transferexpress.com/home

This has done the job for my logo but you need a heat press. The good thing is that they don't flake or come off. The only negative thing I see is that the letters do not come out super sharp, thats why I would like to change to an ink stamp but that would only be for one color and with heat transfers you can do several colors.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I found the sublimated tip sample. I always thought it looked like a photocopy. The place I got the sample from removed the colors on my shield, and added in the gold. If the colors were there and the gold was printed or stamped onto the tip, it would look more like what I originally had in mind, and might not be too bad.

 

[GHT]

Apologies if this seems too simplistic, I'm probably out of my depth here, but there are professional label makers. Here in the UK my wife uses a firm called J J CASH but they are more commonly know as Cash's. They have a range from the sew on labels that you put into a child's school uniform, right through to designer labels. This is the label that my wife designed and they made.



Like I said, sorry if it's not suitable for hats and other garments.

 

[mactire]

As GHT says above woven labels may be an option, and as well as Cash's there's the Franklin Group in Northern Ireland: http://www.franklins.co.uk/

Damask: http://s299.photobucket.com/user/wcreevy/media/damasklabel1.jpg.html
Satin: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/wcreevy/SatinLabel1.jpg

Now one think I'd say is that the advantage of a printed finish is that it won't have a textured finish which people find irritating. I find clothing labels awful as they're mainly woven in harsh polyester and cut them off any garment I have with them where they would touch the skin.

 

[William G.]

I know I'm late to this, but I'm curious what solution you found. My first thought reading through was digiprint.