ELMC Products

[HoosierDaddy]

In my genuine efforts to attempt to improve any deficiencies with the ELMC Californian jacket, please do share your height, shirt-sleeve measure, and your chest measure so we can evaluate what may be reasonable to amend. Thank you.

I'm 6'2 with a 34-35 shirtsleeve. Aprox 39 chest. I normally wear a size 40 jacket (sometimes 42) and 'prefer' a 26 1/4" sleeve length in over 1/2 dozen custom leather jackets that I now own in different half belt and MC models. 24 1/2 or 25 1/2 would not even be a consideration for me in a casual leather jacket or MC jacket. However..the jacket photo at the beginning of this thread shows a short sleeve length on the model that I wouldn't be happy with. That's why some/many leather jacket customers (especially) seek out manufacturers who are happy to oblige at this price range.
HD

 

[IXL]

I agree, at 5' 11" tall you aren't all that tall, so please do tell what is your chest measure and your shirt-sleeve measure; I'm very curious to learn where the factory lengths are deficient so this can be evaluated for my discussion with ELMC. I can understand this complaint more with a man your height who is lean and narrow, but if someone has a 42" chest measure or larger at your height, I fail to see how a long fitting would not satisfy your measures unless you want a cuff that extends onto your hand.

Certainly: I weigh around 155-160lbs and my chest measures a bit under 40 inches. For a jacket with a shoulder measurement of 19.5", a sleeve length of 25.5-26" works out pretty groovy. I can live with a bit less but 23.625" is going to look like I rolled up my sleeves in that "Keith Partridge" kind of style.
The jacket you list has a shoulder-to-shoulder measurement of 18.312", and with the sleeves only 23.625, I fear many folks would be left with what could only be described as the jacket-sleeve equivalent of "high waders." I feel that if the manufacturer would just give a little more "breathing room" to the jackets, more people would become enthused. I would.
Perhaps in the interest of full disclosure, I should also mention that I can scratch my ankles without bending over, though........

 

[bretron]

Are they possibly measuring differently than the way Aero, Goodwear, NorShor, and Bill Kelso measure??

E.g

VS

 

[Superfluous]

Are they possibly measuring differently than the way Aero, Goodwear, NorShor, and Bill Kelso measure??

I don't think so. I tried on the ELMC jackets at Inspiration and they were indeed short, both in the sleeve and the body.

 

[LouisBailie]

I just got an Eastman Leather Company original maker Rough Wear contract number 27752 in size 48, the shoulder to shoulder measures 21 inches and the sleeves from seam to end of cuff measure 27.5.

I am 6'1" 220 with 48.5-49 inch chest and it fits better than any other A 2 I have tried on in the 4 years I have been looking for one.

Mine is one of the "current" production models that was ordered and never worn..until I got it.

Every time I have had a question, about their products, a simple telephone call made directly to them and all my questions or concerns were answered.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

..but this thread isn't about an ELC A2. It's about sizing concerning a ELMC 'Californian' civvy jacket in reg & long.
HD

 

[Mark Ricketts]

HD, give the poor boy a chance.
After an extensive search he found a jacket he liked at 50% off and just wants to talk about it, even if it is not relevant to this thread. If I found a jacket at 50% off I would be excited too. 50% off is a big discount. I have never found a quality jacket at 50% off, but my search for a 50% off jacket has never been as dedicated.

50% off.

 

[58panheadfan]

What's about Rayon/Satin lining durability? Some issues?

 

[HPA Rep]

Having 'short' sizes would help as well. I would think offering an XL might address some of the sizing issues while keeping things 'standard'. I agree that measuring half the shoulder width plus sleeve length is very important as I have suit sleeves (shoulder to cuff) that range from 23.5 to 24.5 based on the shoulder width.

Eastman used to offer short sizes and I agree these would be nice to be able to offer, but Eastman made a call to eliminate these a few years ago, which was after a period of time from when they discontinued customizations. It was explained to me at the time that orders for shorts were few and far between, which I would have to agree with based on our sales at History Preservation Associates, and it was further stated that shorts are, generally speaking, not offered by many brands, so the need was deemed minimal.

Also, back when customizations were available, I was told that almost all such alterations were performed for our N. American customers. I said then that it was not hard to believe, because we actually promoted the fact such options were available, so it makes sense that when a buyer is aware of an option such as this, they are going to be more inclined to make use of the option; Eastman never promoted such an option, it was explained, so their customizations were largely for our customers. What I found was that simple longs, shorts and extra longs were rarely elected when customizations were available, as most customers preferred a fit that was, well, custom.

It's all in the past now, and you are a man who realizes that it's the totality of shoulder and arm measures that are the most important measures to consider vis-a-vis where the cuff terminates.

 

[HPA Rep]

Charles, could you possibly take pictures of you wearing the Windward jacket? Thank you.

Yes, Joel, this style is on the schedule to be shot in both colors, so please stay tuned for these images in due course. Thank you for your interest.

 

[HPA Rep]

I'm 6'2 with a 34-35 shirtsleeve. Aprox 39 chest. I normally wear a size 40 jacket (sometimes 42) and 'prefer' a 26 1/4" sleeve length in over 1/2 dozen custom leather jackets that I now own in different half belt and MC models. 24 1/2 or 25 1/2 would not even be a consideration for me in a casual leather jacket or MC jacket. However..the jacket photo at the beginning of this thread shows a short sleeve length on the model that I wouldn't be happy with. That's why some/many leather jacket customers (especially) seek out manufacturers who are happy to oblige at this price range.

HD

Thank you for your personal specs. and feedback, HD. Obviously, you're tall, so I would expect you to need something longer than a regular fitting. I'm making an educated guess you'd likely need a size 42 in this style, and assuming the long was, at the least, dead on spec., that size would yield a 26" arm measure and and overall shirt-sleeve measure of 35.75".

Regarding the jacket being worn by me and your opinion of the sleeve length, as I stated in the post, that is my own jacket, which has a 34" overall shirt-sleeve measure and an arm measure of 24.5", which is dead on spec. I have a 33" shirt-sleeve measure as taken with my arm straight at my side and I love the sleeve length in this jacket on me and I don't like cuffs creeping on to my hand. I could live with, at most, another 0.5" in arm length, which would make this size 1" longer than the original style created in 2014 by ELMC, thus the revised measure I advocated for, but even as it is now, which is 0.5" longer than the original style, as long as it is dead on spec., we aren't having anyone complain. So, if you think the sleeves are short on my jacket and I don't, I'd say that it's all subjective, which is why they make both chocolate and vanilla ice cream, with chocolate being the best.

I do hear what you and others like and I feel another 0.5" added to the arm length on all regulars would be fine, especially considering that there is a "within tolerance" of 0.5" +/-, so I'll endeavor to persist in getting all regulars made 0.5" longer in the arm length or the long fittings made longer, or some combination thereof. But if custom lengths are the only way to go for some, then I can say with high certainty that ELMC will not be making that an available option for a number of reasons. But if a manufacturer isn't going to offer custom lengths, the manufacturer needs to offer sizes and fits that will work for the majority of consumers likely to purchase their products. ELMC, I believe, thinks they have done that, and with just a little arm twisting (or lengthening, as the case may be), I think they'll have that achieved.

Thank you.

 

[HPA Rep]

What's about Rayon/Satin lining durability? Some issues?

It's basically quite good on durability, but that's relative to user treatment over time. We've had the factory replace customer linings on other styles we've been offering for 25 years and the rayon is performing better than the cotton broad cloth, but all of these linings will eventually display wear. Depending on how frequently you use the jacket and whether it's roughly treated or not, I think either lining type is, on average, good for 10 years or more. The factory will perform a flawless, invisible replacement when it's needed.

 

[HPA Rep]

I don't think so. I tried on the ELMC jackets at Inspiration and they were indeed short, both in the sleeve and the body.

But, if I understood you correctly from other correspondence, you tried on a size 40, which was also too snug in the chest, and not a size 42, which you believe would be the correct size and which should be longer. Oui???

 

[HPA Rep]

Certainly: I weigh around 155-160lbs and my chest measures a bit under 40 inches. For a jacket with a shoulder measurement of 19.5", a sleeve length of 25.5-26" works out pretty groovy. I can live with a bit less but 23.625" is going to look like I rolled up my sleeves in that "Keith Partridge" kind of style.
The jacket you list has a shoulder-to-shoulder measurement of 18.312", and with the sleeves only 23.625, I fear many folks would be left with what could only be described as the jacket-sleeve equivalent of "high waders." I feel that if the manufacturer would just give a little more "breathing room" to the jackets, more people would become enthused. I would.
Perhaps in the interest of full disclosure, I should also mention that I can scratch my ankles without bending over, though........

Thank you for your measures and feedback. I'm a bit confused, however, because you cited a jacket with a 19.5" shoulder measure and an arm measure of 25.5" - 26" being good for you, which would be the 40 Long in this style (25.5" on the arm measure if it's dead on spec.), but you're citing some other measures of of 23.625" on the arm and 18.312" on the shoulder, none of which apply to any size 40s of this style we've handled. Please let me know where you're getting these erroneous measures from. As stated in my initial post, you can see the measures listed on our website on each product page (under the tab at page top entitled "product measurements").

Because this was our first consignment of these jackets other than the samples from the 1st-generation jackets we received in the early summer of 2014, I needed to fully educate myself on every detail and nuance of this style, just as I do with all new items, so I personally measured EVERY jacket in the consignment and not our customery number of five per each size. Then I had friends and acquaintances of every applicable size and with various body types try them on to get a good idea as to how they fit and what shortcomings might be encountered, so I can assure you those numbers you cited have no application among any size 40s we received and I have a very good idea as to what jackets are dead on spec. vs. those within tolerance.

Thank you for your measures and feedback. I'm a bit confused, however, because you cited a jacket with a 19.5" shoulder measure and an arm measure of 25.5" - 26" being good for you, which would be the 40 Long in this style (25.5" on the arm measure if it's dead on spec.), but you're citing some other measures of 23.625" on the arm and 18.312" on the shoulder, none of which apply to any size 40s of this style we've handled. Please let me know where you're getting these erroneous measures from. As stated in my initial post, you can see the measures listed on our website on each product page (under the tab at page top entitled "product measurements") and I know you didn’t get the measures you cite from our pages.

Because this was our first consignment of these jackets other than the samples from the 1st-generation jackets we received in the early summer of 2014, I needed to fully educate myself on every detail and nuance of this style, just as I do with all new items, so I personally measured EVERY jacket in the consignment and not our customary number of five per each size. Then I had friends and acquaintances of every applicable size and with various body types try them on to get a good idea as to how they fit and what shortcomings might be encountered, so I can assure you those numbers you cited have no application among any size 40s we received and I have a very good idea as to what jackets are dead on spec. vs. those within tolerance.

If you or anyone else is serious about making a purchase of any jacket or shirt we offer and the desired measure is critical, we will happily confirm the measures for you, as I believe Superfluous will attest. But I would also caution you, as our website does on each "fit tip" page for each product, that relying totally on numbers can be problematic and deceiving at times, which I believe Superfluous will also attest to from his trying on a size 40 in this style.

Thank you.

 

[bretron]

My idea half belt measurements:
Chest (front pit to pit): 22.5-22.75"
Body length (base of collar to bottom hem): 24.5-24.75"
Shoulders: 18-18.5"
Sleeves: 25.75-26"

Sz 42L?

 

[HPA Rep]

My idea half belt measurements:
Chest (front pit to pit): 22.5-22.75"
Body length (base of collar to bottom hem): 24.5-24.75"
Shoulders: 18-18.5"
Sleeves: 25.75-26"

Sz 42L?

Hmmmmm, your ideal would be a blend of sizes in this style with a little magic sprinkled on it, but size 42L would likely be the closest, with the following measures applying for an example that was on spec. and not just within tolerance:

Chest width: 23"

Shoulder width: 19.5"

Arm length: 26"

Back Length: 25.5"

As I noted previously in this post, we can measure jackets on hand to try to find something closest for you, so in some ways, a jacket that was within tolerance on a few measures might work best vs. one on spec. on all measures. I'm not all concerned about shoulders; as I think you can see of the images of me in the size 40R, the shoulder width is quite good and no one has complained in this regard.

 

[bretron]

Thank you for your quick reply!!! A really nice pattern, I must say

 

[HPA Rep]

Are they possibly measuring differently than the way Aero, Goodwear, NorShor, and Bill Kelso measure??

E.g

VS

Please go to our web page for any jacket and look for the tab at the top entitled "measuring garments" to see how we measure.

 

[bretron]

That is very good to know, thank you for speaking up on that point!!

 

[IXL]

Thank you for your measures and feedback. I'm a bit confused, however, because you cited a jacket with a 19.5" shoulder measure and an arm measure of 25.5" - 26" being good for you, which would be the 40 Long in this style (25.5" on the arm measure if it's dead on spec.), but you're citing some other measures of of 23.625" on the arm and 18.312" on the shoulder, none of which apply to any size 40s of this style we've handled. Please let me know where you're getting these erroneous measures from. As stated in my initial post, you can see the measures listed on our website on each product page (under the tab at page top entitled "product measurements").

Because this was our first consignment of these jackets other than the samples from the 1st-generation jackets we received in the early summer of 2014, I needed to fully educate myself on every detail and nuance of this style, just as I do with all new items, so I personally measured EVERY jacket in the consignment and not our customery number of five per each size. Then I had friends and acquaintances of every applicable size and with various body types try them on to get a good idea as to how they fit and what shortcomings might be encountered, so I can assure you those numbers you cited have no application among any size 40s we received and I have a very good idea as to what jackets are dead on spec. vs. those within tolerance.

Thank you for your measures and feedback. I'm a bit confused, however, because you cited a jacket with a 19.5" shoulder measure and an arm measure of 25.5" - 26" being good for you, which would be the 40 Long in this style (25.5" on the arm measure if it's dead on spec.), but you're citing some other measures of 23.625" on the arm and 18.312" on the shoulder, none of which apply to any size 40s of this style we've handled. Please let me know where you're getting these erroneous measures from. As stated in my initial post, you can see the measures listed on our website on each product page (under the tab at page top entitled "product measurements") and I know you didn’t get the measures you cite from our pages.

Because this was our first consignment of these jackets other than the samples from the 1st-generation jackets we received in the early summer of 2014, I needed to fully educate myself on every detail and nuance of this style, just as I do with all new items, so I personally measured EVERY jacket in the consignment and not our customary number of five per each size. Then I had friends and acquaintances of every applicable size and with various body types try them on to get a good idea as to how they fit and what shortcomings might be encountered, so I can assure you those numbers you cited have no application among any size 40s we received and I have a very good idea as to what jackets are dead on spec. vs. those within tolerance.

If you or anyone else is serious about making a purchase of any jacket or shirt we offer and the desired measure is critical, we will happily confirm the measures for you, as I believe Superfluous will attest. But I would also caution you, as our website does on each "fit tip" page for each product, that relying totally on numbers can be problematic and deceiving at times, which I believe Superfluous will also attest to from his trying on a size 40 in this style.

Thank you.

Sure. The measurements I quoted came from post #8 of this thread, which gave the dimensions of a Californian, in size 40, as given by EMC and quoted by zhz.