ELMC Californian -vs- Simmons Bilt Tailgunner?

[lina]

I've been thinking lately that I might "need" a brown, midweight, collared jacket, mainly for riding. I see these two options currently available: an ELMC Californian size 44, and a Simmons Bilt Tailgunner size 42. Both look just right to me with regard to styling and are comparable in asking price ($499 for the ELMC and $525 for the SB). They also seem somewhat comparable with regard to sizing, though always hard to tell from pics and measurements: ELMC shoulders 19" & Pit-to-Pit 22.5" / SB shoulders 20.5- & Pit-to-Pit 22.5.

So, I'm happy for any feedback from the Lounge. I have never handled or tried on either jacket. I imagine that quality of materials and construction will be very high for each, but anyone who can speak to that, do tell. And any feedback on sizing/fit would be welcome -- again, the ELMC is marked as a 44 but measurements seem more like a standard 42 to me, and the SB actually appears to be slightly broader in the shoulders (though gussets always complicate that). FYI, I am 6' & about 180lbs; usually take a 44 in vintage jackets and a 42 in contemporary ones.

FWIW the ELMC is a much more expensive jacket new, though I am not sure that makes much difference to me; it also appears to have more wear than the SB. First two pics below are ELMC and the following two are SB.

In the end, for whatever tangible or intangible reasons, which would you choose? I'll even include a poll!

 

[Aloysius]

The ELMC is a better jacket by a wide margin but neither is suited to riding.

The Vanson Enfield and Vanson Oxford or Schott 688 and 689H are similarly styled jackets that are an order of magnitude better for your desired purpose. And, I would add, I don't think they're compromises in terms of leather quality.

The Schotts are probably going to give you the most 'best of both worlds' combination of 'artisanal' leather (but tough enough for riding) and riding pattern.

The Vanson is going to have excellent leather, but with different qualities to what people here often look for. I wouldn't consider it 'lesser' in any way though. I was just at their factory and thoroughly impressed by the new comp weight. I see you're in DC; if I hadn't returned my jacket in the new comp weight, I would bring it by for you to check out.

I can say though that, if you're okay with black, the leather on the 689H is one of my favorite hides ever. I have the thicker version of it on my best (even compared to much more expensive ones) jacket. @ton312 can confirm just how good it is, and that's a man who's handled a lot of leathers. As for brown jackets, I would expect the steerhide of the 688 to be basically the same thing, except brown, but I can't give a personal endorsement because I haven't tried that jacket or leather myself.

 

[lina]

The ELMC is a better jacket by a wide margin but neither is suited to riding.

The Vanson Enfield and Vanson Oxford or Schott 688 and 689H are similarly styled jackets that are an order of magnitude better for your desired purpose. And, I would add, I don't think they're compromises in terms of leather quality.

The Schotts are probably going to give you the most 'best of both worlds' combination of 'artisanal' leather (but tough enough for riding) and riding pattern.

The Vanson is going to have excellent leather, but with different qualities to what people here often look for. I wouldn't consider it 'lesser' in any way though. I was just at their factory and thoroughly impressed by the new comp weight. I see you're in DC; if I hadn't returned my jacket in the new comp weight, I would bring it by for you to check out.

I can say though that, if you're okay with black, the leather on the 689H is one of my favorite hides ever. I have the thicker version of it on my best (even compared to much more expensive ones) jacket. @ton312 can confirm just how good it is, and that's a man who's handled a lot of leathers. As for brown jackets, I would expect the steerhide of the 688 to be basically the same thing, except brown, but I can't give a personal endorsement because I haven't tried that jacket or leather myself.

Thanks, I appreciate this feedback. I should probably add that I already have more serious/substantial riding jackets, and I am thinking of these in terms of more "casual" riding jackets. In other words, only very minimally for protection, and more for local rides on slightly chilly days. I know everyone has different ideas about and commitments to safety gear, but that's not foremost in my mind for these jackets.

 

[Aloysius]

Thanks, I appreciate this feedback. I should probably add that I already have more serious/substantial riding jackets, and I am thinking of these in terms of more "casual" riding jackets. In other words, only very minimally for protection, and more for local rides on slightly chilly days. I know everyone has different ideas about and commitments to safety gear, but that's not foremost in my mind for these jackets.

Even in that case I'd say that the Schott and Vanson are better jackets than the Simmons.

As for the ELMC, I'd say it's equivalent to the Schott and Vanson in quality, but different. The leather on the ELMC has a great hand to it; feels a lot like an actual vintage jacket. But then so does the Schott, except the hide is a bit more substantial. The ELMC is going to have fancier construction than the Schott and Vanson.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I've got a Tailgunner in size 42. I got it from their sale page. In Japanese horsehide, I am about the same size as you, 6', 180lbs.

Between the two jacket you've listed above, I'd lean towards the Tailgunner only because it looks like it's in a newer condition than the ELMC jacket.

It would come down to what design you'd like better, half belt or single rider style.

 

[lina]

I've got a Tailgunner in size 42. I got it from their sale page. In Japanese horsehide, I am about the same size as you, 6', 180lbs.


Between the two jacket you've listed above, I'd lean towards the Tailgunner only because it looks like it's in a newer condition than the ELMC jacket.

It would come down to what design you'd like better, half belt or single rider style.

Thanks for posting -- looks great on you! And this gives me more of sense of sizing, so I appreciate it.

 

[BloodEagle]

I saw that ELMC Californian on ebay, out of the two designs I do prefer it, but that particular one looks pretty thrashed when you study the closer up pictures

 

[Fonzie]

$499 for the ELMC is a really good deal! I have it and is my favourite in a fairly large(-ish) collection, you can’t go wrong.

 

[Frank Castle]

Tailgunner. A derivative of Aero is still an Aero.

 

[trainspotter]

I briefly had a Tailgunner, it was one of the most comfortable and good looking leather jackets I have ever tried

Unfortunately I had to sell it due to sizing issues, but the comfort and range of motion was second to none, certainly way better than ANY Aero I have tried. Besides, the Tailgunner just looks kickass. The proportions are just right IMO

 

[El Marro]

 

[lina]

 

[Mawashi]

I'll second Aloysius on a Vanson or some other riding jacket, the tailgunner is an amazing looking jacket and if it's just for your walkabouts, it's a fine jacket, I'll chose it over the ELMC simply cos it is such a nice jacket and how well the freedom of movement it has.

I don't ride yet I want a Vanson and I have my eyes set on a Royale Enfield.

 

[Mrfrown]

Make sure to get really good pics of measurements on the Californian, I have noticed a pretty large variation across ones with same tag size.

It also has pretty trim arms and high armholes so the fit is trimmer than you may expect for given measurements

That being said I just picked one up for my birthday and have been really pleased with it

 

[lina]

I don't ride yet I want a Vanson and I have my eyes set on a Royale Enfield.

I used to have a Royal Enfield single cylinder, which I loved in many respects, but boy it broke down all the time! The newer ones are much more reliable, and there are lots of modifying can do easily if you want to make it your own, with parts from companies like Baak.

 

[ProteinNerd]

While I love my Californian, I don’t think I’d trust it as a riding jacket tbh.

It’s a good price on it but there are 2 concerning marks to be seen on the photos. One above the right hand pocket and another on the right hand rear shoulder.

I’d be asking for better photos of those 2 marks before hitting BIN.

 

[Mawashi]

I used to have a Royal Enfield single cylinder, which I loved in many respects, but boy it broke down all the time! The newer ones are much more reliable, and there are lots of modifying can do easily if you want to make it your own, with parts from companies like Baak.
View attachment 513726

That's awesome but I really think riding isn't for me. The drivers here are awful and the weather is so hot and humid I'll need a bath after every ride.

I know Simmons don't get a lot of love here but I've seen some of their jackets and they are pretty awesome, some of their designs really need some work but overall if you can make some changes to their patterns for a custom jacket I'm pretty sure they make fantastic jackets.

As for a riding jacket, stick with something that will offer you some protection, Vanson and even Johnson Leathers have a lot of experience in these areas.

Imagine wearing a Vanson Royale Enfield while riding one lol!

 

[lina]

So, I ended up getting the ELMC, which just arrived today. It’s a gorgeous jacket to my mind, and the leather’s actually in better shape than it appeared in the pictures. (the seller told me that he had sent it to Dena at great leather to condition before selling it.)

I really like it… but… I am afraid it might be too tight for me. It is definitely small for a contemporary 44, really more like a snug 42. According to the measurements, it should work for me, and perhaps it will. But I find the cut similar to what is often the case with Aero jackets for me, which is that there is plenty of volume in the torso, but because of the way the front panels are cut it ends up being stretched tight across the chest.

Anyway, I’m not giving up on it yet; I’m going to try it out for a little bit to see
If I can live with it. But if not, you may see it pop up on the classifieds page..

Pics:

 

[lina]

Really nice jacket!

 

[Aloysius]

So, I ended up getting the ELMC, which just arrived today. It’s a gorgeous jacket to my mind, and the leather’s actually in better shape than it appeared in the pictures. (the seller told me that he had sent it to Dena at great leather to condition before selling it.)

I really like it… but… I am afraid it might be too tight for me. It is definitely small for a contemporary 44, really more like a snug 42. According to the measurements, it should work for me, and perhaps it will. But I find the cut similar to what is often the case with Aero jackets for me, which is that there is plenty of volume in the torso, but because of the way the front panels are cut it ends up being stretched tight across the chest.

Anyway, I’m not giving up on it yet; I’m going to try it out for a little bit to see
If I can live with it. But if not, you may see it pop up on the classifieds page..

Pics:
View attachment 517795 View attachment 517796

Your experience wearing it is going to be the best gauge, of course, but I can say visually it doesn’t look tight when zipped up.