Ecuador Bound! Hat advice desired.

[Aureliano]

Aureliano, yea, like I said I even noticed your thread before I posted this help request. I was thinking about PMing you sometime soon but I'm glad you popped up here. That's what I was afraid of regarding Quito. It just screams tourist trap (regarding goods I mean, the locale looks pretty impressive). Any comments on what I might expect elsewhere in country? Like I said, Monticristi is not on our agenda and I'm only one of 3 people in the group so I can't really dictate that we detour there for the hats. Here's a rough look at our 'plans' at the moment. I'd consider them pretty much set unless odd circumstances intervene...

Quito - for a short time but mostly as a hub for other destinations, we'll do Mitad del Mundo for sure.
Nanegal - my buddy's Peace Corps assignment town, he'll show us around here
Santa Lucia - the cloud forest preserve near Mindo/Nanegal, he's got things taken care of there already
Mindo - ziplining, perhaps whitewater, some hiking, etc.
Otvallo - I had to pressure a bit here since I'm excited about the market and our current thoughts only include about 3 hours here
Cayambe - mainly just a stopover
Tena - we'll be here for a few days doing hikes, whitewater, and (what I'm most excited about) caving in the Cavernas de Jumandy and the Mondayacu/Cotundo area (hopefully)
Banos - bike ride to waterfalls, thermal baths, recuperate for a day or two here
Riobamba - crash and go out with some other PC staff here perhaps, mostly a pit-stop
Quito - fly out for USA

Looks like a fun trip!
This is what I can tell you about "my" people. American = money, so mind your wallet both financially and literally speaking specially if you jump in a local bus. This applies to everywhere.
Ecuadorians are nice and warm and will treat you with respect. The country is gorgeous and you get a lot for your money since our economy, though sucking in here, is way better in comparison. Dress casual and leave jewelry in the usa. The food is great but stay away from tap water. Stick to bottle or boil your own specially in Tena and Nanegal.
Otavalo is amazing and the market is great! the textiles there are great. If you can get to Cotacachi, only a half hour to 45 min past Otavalo, you'll find a heaven for leather goods.
Make sure you stop in Cayambe for coffee with "Biscochos" (a type of savory baked pastry...so good) with dulce de leche and queso de hoja (white, mozzarella type wrapped in a leave)
Honestly, go to Homero Ortega for hats. I wish I'd purchased two instead of one. They are great! If you have any questions you can PM me.
A-

 

[Lefty]

But, hats with a tighter weave breathe better and will therefore keep your head cooler.

???
Tighter weave=less airflow=hotter.
That's the paradox of the panama: the higher the quality (at least as to weave count), the hotter the hat.

 

[bridger1215]

Just back from Ecuador. If I was seriously going on a hat search you've got to go to the source which it sounds like you are not. Cuenca is not too far from Riobamba if you can swing it. Lots of factories and hat shops there. Also Sigsig ( 1 hour bus ride from Cuenca) has 2 women's hat associations and it's quite interesting to see all the women weaving even as they walk down the street.

Hit the Banos pools after they are cleaned. The volcano behind the town was active and instills a lot of respect for mother nature.

Another vote for the Galapagos, you can do it for less than $500 staying in Porto Ayoro or take the ferry to Isabela. The wildlife is out of this world.

We had no problem with theft but many people we talked to did. Just keep aware and always watch your bags.

Have a great time and enjoy the Quito landing, never been scared on a plane until our return landing from the Galapagos.

 

[panamabound]

Wow, what a turnout...

Ok, so let me try to respond to everyone in turn...

1961MJ, I'm with ya on all those points. Based upon what you, among others, are saying it sounds like I might be better off committing to being happy to find something mediocre at a moderate to good price and calling the whole thing a learning experience. I'm not looking to drop $100+ on each hat while I'm there anyway. I just don't have the expertise.

monbla, I live in the deep American South too, so I know the pleasures of a fine hat out in the heat of the day. Maybe I'll find something suitable for being used but not totally abused...

Jess, I can't imagine spending half a bill on a hat and having it turn out like that. I appreciate your need for discretion but maybe PM me with information on the store that might help me from making the same mistake? Moreover, you say you just returned from the area.. on a buying trip? Any contacts you might be willing/able to shoot my way? You speak of bad vendors but surely there are reputable vendors in country as well... maybe that's me being naive. Regardless, thanks for the help and the kind words.

Aureliano, I've been warned about theft. It makes me feel better that we'll be with my friend who has been in country for a 1 year+ already. He's had a few small things stolen over the course of the year. Most recent was a pair of off-brand zip-away hiking pants off his clothes line yesterday. Bus travel will involve each of us + a daypack each, I'm guessing we'll keep them within sight at all times. I'm not even checking bags on the way down, but may check one on the way back home depending on how many souvenirs/gifts I end up with. Dress will be unadorned, simple, and a bit inadvertently grungy I'm sure. As far as jewelery, I may have an unobtrusive wristwatch since I'm not taking my cell phone at all since he has an extra for me. I'm really looking forward to seeing the country and the people. We'll be using iodine or bottled water for sure. More importantly, I keep hearing mixed reviews regarding Otavalo market goods. Since I'm looking for other textiles as well I would really appreciate any information you could give. Ditto for Cotachachi, I wouldn't mind picking up a nice leather shoulder bag or simple belt or two. My PC friend seems truly averse to the Otavalo portion of the trip due to it being "really touristy", any counters that I could throw at him regarding the area? It seems like the whole area could be a craftsman mecca between those two, Peguche, La Compania, Agato, and Iluman. I just have, especially here, little leverage since he's the 'expert'. I could put my foot down but I really don't want to get the trip off on that sort of footing. Homera Ortega eh? I'll do some research but if you could offer any more info I'd gladly listen. I guess if we're going into this much detail it's to your discretion as to whether to drop me a PM or not. I'm fine with keeping it in the thread but *shrug* whatever.

Bridger, Yea, Cuenca might show up on the list but it's going to have to be a figure it out as we go sort of thing. I've heard that the volcano near Banos was acting up, but not actually erupting. I guess we'll play it by ear. Galapagos is 100% out of the picture, just not in the cards. I'm glad to hear the warning regarding the Quito landing. I'll try to get a window seat. I get very zen regarding living or dying once I get on a plane. I see it as things being 100% out of my hand so the chill factor goes high. And the bags will be under a very hard gaze for the duration.



Thanks all,
D

 

[monbla256]

panamabound,
Thanks for your response to all our "advice" I hope you have a NICE & SAFE trip and let us know how it went when you get back

Onward thru the Fog

 

[Aureliano]

Have a great time and enjoy the Quito landing, never been scared on a plane until our return landing from the Galapagos.

I didn't want to mention that but he's right. I have two pilots in my family and they both agree that landing in Quito is one of the trickiest and sometimes scariest in the world. And I agree about the scary part, specially when there's wind. You'll see why

 

[danofarlington]

panamabound,
Thanks for your response to all our "advice" I hope you have a NICE & SAFE trip and let us know how it went when you get back

Onward thru the Fog

Gee, after all we've told him, there's hardly any need for him to go down there himself now! Through us, he's seen and done it all.

 

[Aureliano]

More importantly, I keep hearing mixed reviews regarding Otavalo market goods. Since I'm looking for other textiles as well I would really appreciate any information you could give. Ditto for Cotachachi, I wouldn't mind picking up a nice leather shoulder bag or simple belt or two. My PC friend seems truly averse to the Otavalo portion of the trip due to it being "really touristy", any counters that I could throw at him regarding the area? Thanks all,
D

The Otavalo market is indeed plagued with tourists but you will find crafts and textiles at a great price. Store owners in Quito buy their stuff in the market and then crank up the prices once displayed behind their windows. The textiles are great: wool ponchos and sweaters, even fedoras 100% rough wool. Native men from Otavalo wear linen pants and beautifully made linen shirts. I love those and own a few. This shirts are sold by J Petterman (sp?) for twice or three times the price. If you want to avoid the crowds of tourists you can skip Otavalo and get your stuff in Quito, one of the best stores is the one owned by Olga Fisch (she has a web page just google her name) which is located in a very accessible spot of the city.If you want leather bag, go to cotacachi and walk around, compare the finese of the stuff between stores and bargain a lot.
I cannot mention enough the quality of Homero Ortega hats, it will cost you some money (mine was $130) but the quality is great. Not a hat you want to wear while walking through the forests or the jungle though, way too nice for that. If you manage to make it to Cuenca (Gooorgeous city BTW) Ortega has a panama hat museum worth visiting. He has a website, too.
I can't say this enough, when in a bus never let your bag go in the luggage compartment or above in the roof. If the watch you'll be wearing is somehow fancy looking, get one that looks like poop. Or keep it in your pocket.
I feel bad saying this stuff about my countrymen but it's the truth and believe me, I grew up in there and left for the USA at age 19, I know a little bit what I'm talking about. And over there, if you look foreign/american you're somehow at higher risk.

 

[panamaJess]

???
Tighter weave=less airflow=hotter.
That's the paradox of the panama: the higher the quality (at least as to weave count), the hotter the hat.

My understanding is that a tighter weave means thinner straw strands and more tiny holes in the hat, increasing air flow!
You get what you pay for in this case (assuming you're paying for a truly high-quality hat).

 

[panamaJess]

I didn't want to mention that but he's right. I have two pilots in my family and they both agree that landing in Quito is one of the trickiest and sometimes scariest in the world. And I agree about the scary part, specially when there's wind. You'll see why

This was my experience as well!!! It's like a complimentary rollercoaster ride at the end of a long flight.

 

[Lefty]

My understanding is that a tighter weave means thinner straw strands and more tiny holes in the hat, increasing air flow!

Air doesn't go through the straw, regardless of its thickness. It goes through the spaces between the weaves. There is less overall space between the weaves of a tightly woven hat than in a loosely woven hat. Also, the airflow is more significant through the larger holes of a loosely woven hat. If I wear a shirt with 100 moth holes in it, it's not going to be very ventilated. if the same shirt has 3 golf ball size holes, I'll feel a breeze.

Tighter weaves look better and feel better to the touch. Looser weaves are cooler.

 

[danofarlington]

This was my experience as well!!! It's like a complimentary rollercoaster ride at the end of a long flight.

If you had six or seven drinks prior, then you probably wouldn't notice whether you're heading for a mountainside or not. But don't worry! Have a nice trip.

 

[rlk]

For ventilation think Brisa or Calado

 

[panamaJess]

Air doesn't go through the straw, regardless of its thickness. It goes through the spaces between the weaves. There is less overall space between the weaves of a tightly woven hat than in a loosely woven hat. Also, the airflow is more significant through the larger holes of a loosely woven hat. If I wear a shirt with 100 moth holes in it, it's not going to be very ventilated. if the same shirt has 3 golf ball size holes, I'll feel a breeze.

Tighter weaves look better and feel better to the touch. Looser weaves are cooler.

I'm trying to do some research on this. It doesn't make sense to me that people would pay $1000s for a (relatively) stifling hat. I heard the Montecristi breathes better because of its porosity. I misunderstood that to mean the more numerous, smaller holes create better airflow, but you're right Lefty, that doesn't make sense. It’s the straw that’s actually porous.

So I've been reading that the major reason the Panama hat breathes so well is because of the toquilla straw—the straw itself is both porous and permeable. I've read that the Montecristi, even with its tight weave, breathes better due to the breathability of the straw itself.

But if a Panama hat is woven more loosely, with the same straw, wouldn’t it follow that the lower-quality hat is a better ventilated one, as Lefty said?

I have yet to experience a Montecristi myself, so I'd like to hear from the Montecristi owners out there (I envy you).

Also, I'm hijacking the original thread here. Should I continue this conversation in a new thread?

 

[panamabound]

Hijack away, I'm heading out tomorrow so I probably won't have time to look at the thread again. I'd love to see an answer to that question when I get back though!

Thanks again all
D

 

[danofarlington]

I'm trying to do some research on this. It doesn't make sense to me that people would pay $1000s for a (relatively) stifling hat. I heard the Montecristi breathes better because of its porosity. I misunderstood that to mean the more numerous, smaller holes create better airflow, but you're right Lefty, that doesn't make sense. It’s the straw that’s actually porous.

So I've been reading that the major reason the Panama hat breathes so well is because of the toquilla straw—the straw itself is both porous and permeable. I've read that the Montecristi, even with its tight weave, breathes better due to the breathability of the straw itself.

But if a Panama hat is woven more loosely, with the same straw, wouldn’t it follow that the lower-quality hat is a better ventilated one, as Lefty said?

I have yet to experience a Montecristi myself, so I'd like to hear from the Montecristi owners out there (I envy you).

Also, I'm hijacking the original thread here. Should I continue this conversation in a new thread?

Montecristi Panama hats are hot as felt as far as I'm concerned, the tighter the weave the less air. Loose weaves give much more ventilation. It is the intuitive way, instead of the counterintuitive way. Only that the loose weaves don't look nearly as good as the tight weaves. So pick your poison: Style with expense, or comfort along with cheap prices.

 

[monbla256]

I'm trying to do some research on this. It doesn't make sense to me that people would pay $1000s for a (relatively) stifling hat. I heard the Montecristi breathes better because of its porosity. I misunderstood that to mean the more numerous, smaller holes create better airflow, but you're right Lefty, that doesn't make sense. It’s the straw that’s actually porous.

So I've been reading that the major reason the Panama hat breathes so well is because of the toquilla straw—the straw itself is both porous and permeable. I've read that the Montecristi, even with its tight weave, breathes better due to the breathability of the straw itself.

But if a Panama hat is woven more loosely, with the same straw, wouldn’t it follow that the lower-quality hat is a better ventilated one, as Lefty said?

I have yet to experience a Montecristi myself, so I'd like to hear from the Montecristi owners out there (I envy you).

Also, I'm hijacking the original thread here. Should I continue this conversation in a new thread?

Being a long time wearer of BOTH Montecristi and Brisa weave Panama's and wearing them in the extreme heat and humidity we often have up here in N. Texas and when I go to S. Texas as well, I need to first say that other than as a sun sheild, when it is 110 w/80% humidity, NO hat is comfortable in the direct sun. I will sweat in either a Montecristi or one of my Semi-Calado's. I do know that on VERY hot days I wear my Semi-Calado Montecristi's more than any of my others just to get some of that hot air that's blowing around down here to pass over my head. All things being equal, myself, I have opted for the looks and quality of Montecristi's as my dress summer hats with a couple of Brisa weave Cuenca's for work mainly 'cause of price. And as nice as they are, leather sweats, for me in extreme heat, are NOT as comfortable as the fabric sweats in my Cuencas. Just my many years experience with Panama's which I PREFER over felts still
Onward thru the SNOW

 

[danofarlington]

And as nice as they are, leather sweats, for me in extreme heat, are NOT as comfortable as the fabric sweats in my Cuencas. Just my many years experience with Panama's which I PREFER over felts still
Onward thru the SNOW

The only problem with a fabric sweatband is that it will allow sweat to soak through to the crown. On the other hand, the leather is more or less impervious to the moisture. It's a little counterproductive because a leather sweatband probably induces more sweat than the cloth variety, but the sweat that is there is not passed through the band.

 

[monbla256]

The only problem with a fabric sweatband is that it will allow sweat to soak through to the crown. On the other hand, the leather is more or less impervious to the moisture. It's a little counterproductive because a leather sweatband probably induces more sweat than the cloth variety, but the sweat that is there is not passed through the band.

'fraid I have about 4 older Panamas which disprove that It all depends on the duration of time worn and the amt. of sweat produced by the wearer. I wouldn't make a general statement that leather would be better as I have sweated THRU several bands over the years. I think a person would have to assess there own physiology and decide from that. I sweat profussly so I can only speak from my experience and have really NOT noticed that one sweatband works better than another, I just prefer the fabric ones because of the comfort when sweating mainly.

 

[panamaJess]

Jess, I can't imagine spending half a bill on a hat and having it turn out like that. I appreciate your need for discretion but maybe PM me with information on the store that might help me from making the same mistake? Moreover, you say you just returned from the area.. on a buying trip? Any contacts you might be willing/able to shoot my way? You speak of bad vendors but surely there are reputable vendors in country as well... maybe that's me being naive. Regardless, thanks for the help and the kind words.
D

I tried to send you a private message, but apparently you have to enable private messaging? What's your email address?
Jessica