Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[HatsEnough]

I've said it time and time again.....I just....dont....get...it. These Whippets are going for so much when in actuality they were just regular 50's Stetson hats. Nothing out of the ordinary or special. They were a fairly cheap hat back then and even though the proportions are nice, other manufactures made hats that look identical to Whippets which can be had for a fraction of the price.

I know, right? A Whippet was a cheapie at $10 for most of the time and vintage ones are still fairly plentiful today! It's just a craze, is all. The Playboy was originally a cheapie, too, but they are going for high prices off an on still, too. But, remember a few years ago the Playboys were rivaling the Whippet in price. They've since come down a bit.

I've seen stuff like this in other collectibles, though. It's impossible to figure what will come to a craze, what won't, and why. Usually there is a bust on crazes and prices fall dramatically. I know a guy that paid $7,000 at the height of the craze a decade ago or so for an English desk. Today they are worth about $2,500 at best.

 

[Lefty]

I can sort of understand the Playboy craze. There aren't all that many mid-ribbons out there. I've only owned two Playboys, and I bought them because of a more specific feature: one that I sold was green Vita-Felt (and a bit small for me) and the other is the 30s teal Air Light that has to be kept in a box, lest it drift away with the breeze. Strats and Whippets, on the other hand, have such a common look, and were produced in much better qualities, but without that name stamped on the sweat.

this, however, is awesome

 

[HatsEnough]

Good old rilco! I've bought more from him than I care to remember.

 

[Lefty]

I try to buy the hats that he doesn't find, or to just outbid him by a little bit. He photographs and lists them so well that his hats always command a premium.

That Railbird from a month or so ago is a great example. I think it went from around $20 to around $120 in the two weeks between rilico's purchase and sale.

 

[HatsEnough]

True, I usually bid on the ones he has that don't go too high. I feel I've gotten a few good deals from him.

 

[mayserwegener]

Well, you can't really stretch a bowler. They are way too stiff for stretching and if you stretch these old bowlers, they just seem to crack. Some of the later semi-stiff or flexible bowlers that came out in the 50's and 60's may be possible to stretch due to the lack of so much shellac. Even though I am a size 7, my head measures exactly 21 7/8, so a small 7. Sometimes these old 6 7/8's run a little big and fit perfectly and if not, then I will just have to wear the hat like most people did back then.....3/4 of the way up their forehead.

I have only reshaped old Euro Bowlers which might be more flexible in general. I apply a good amount of steam around the outer base so they lossen up. I think this was common practice (using a Conformateur and Formillon) because I have run into non standard openings. The problem is if you stretch them too much front to back the brim will mishape (will not be flat at the front and back).

 

[randooch]

Good old rilco! I've bought more from him than I care to remember.

I recently got on him about putting the hat size in the title to save search time, and it seems to have helped.

 

[DJH]

Good old rilco! I've bought more from him than I care to remember.

My 18 year old really likes this 80's Coach bag we just got from him.

I know nothing about this stuff and bought it for about 1/3 of the max bid I sniped!

 

[bowlerman]

Well, you can't really stretch a bowler. They are way too stiff for stretching and if you stretch these old bowlers, they just seem to crack. Some of the later semi-stiff or flexible bowlers that came out in the 50's and 60's may be possible to stretch due to the lack of so much shellac. Even though I am a size 7, my head measures exactly 21 7/8, so a small 7. Sometimes these old 6 7/8's run a little big and fit perfectly and if not, then I will just have to wear the hat like most people did back then.....3/4 of the way up their forehead.

You might be surprised at what you can actually accomplish with a bowler in the stretching/shaping department! Typically the shellac will give with some steam and the crystals will harden again (usually rather quickly) when it cools and dries. I've done it with modern and vintage. You've got to do it delicately, and I suppose you eventually reach a point where the shellac has run out, but I've encountered no sign of that so far-- they seem to cure and harden pretty readily each time, though I don't make a frequent habit of it. Either way, that's a beauty!

 

[Iyor]

Well if the union sticker says, "The United Hatters of North America," the hat dates to 1934 and prior. If the union sticker says, "United Hatters Cap & Millinery Wkrs Int. Union," then the hat dates dates from 1935 and up.

Sweet! My hat says "The United Hatters of North America" so that dates it to prior 1934. I only paid about 25 shipped

 

[cookie]

I can sort of understand the Playboy craze. There aren't all that many mid-ribbons out there. I've only owned two Playboys, and I bought them because of a more specific feature: one that I sold was green Vita-Felt (and a bit small for me) and the other is the 30s teal Air Light that has to be kept in a box, lest it drift away with the breeze. Strats and Whippets, on the other hand, have such a common look, and were produced in much better qualities, but without that name stamped on the sweat.

this, however, is awesome

I had a bid on that eventhough it was a stretch job for me. The uniqueness and quality of it attracted me. I think I have only ever seen 2 Italian straws like that. I am not surpised ny lower bid was trumped bigtime.

 

[Joshbru3]

I have only reshaped old Euro Bowlers which might be more flexible in general. I apply a good amount of steam around the outer base so they lossen up. I think this was common practice (using a Conformateur and Formillon) because I have run into non standard openings. The problem is if you stretch them too much front to back the brim will mishape (will not be flat at the front and back).

You might be surprised at what you can actually accomplish with a bowler in the stretching/shaping department! Typically the shellac will give with some steam and the crystals will harden again (usually rather quickly) when it cools and dries. I've done it with modern and vintage. You've got to do it delicately, and I suppose you eventually reach a point where the shellac has run out, but I've encountered no sign of that so far-- they seem to cure and harden pretty readily each time, though I don't make a frequent habit of it. Either way, that's a beauty!

Thanks for the info guys! I've never tried stretching a bowler because Ive always been under the impression that bowlers can't be stretched. I guess if you steam the felt and work the stretcher slowly it would work. I've had to remove some dents from bowlers and that shellac does soften right up when you steam it and it sets up SUPER quick. Steve, you do bring up a good point about the Conformateur and Formillon. I would imagine that if someone had an oddly shaped head and wanted to use a non-custom made bowler, the hatter would have to find a way to shape the hat. If the bowler is only stretched to one size up, it might be possible to avoid brim flange deformation. I have a couple of crumby old bowlers in bad shape at home that I'm going to try stretching because if they crack, its no big deal. I wouldn't try it though on my good Dobbs and Stetson bowlers. I'm way to scared for that.

 

[Joshbru3]

Sweet! My hat says "The United Hatters of North America" so that dates it to prior 1934. I only paid about 25 shipped

Very cool!! Congrats! I was going to bid on that hat because just by looking at the sweatband and the frayed ribbon, I figured it was from the 30's or before. I didn't bid though because I figured that you might have wanted it. I have too many black hats for my collection anyways.

 

[Joshbru3]

Picked up this Early 1900's Stetson Standard Quality Derby as a buy it now. I couldnt pass this one up. The pictures are fuzzy, but I think it might be a good one. I loved the red liner.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230649174236&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

 

[bowlerman]

wow, you're on a derby roll, lately-- very nice find!

 

[Iyor]

Very cool!! Congrats! I was going to bid on that hat because just by looking at the sweatband and the frayed ribbon, I figured it was from the 30's or before. I didn't bid though because I figured that you might have wanted it. I have too many black hats for my collection anyways.

Thanks Josh. Anyone who wanted it would have had to bid really high since I had a high max.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks for the info guys! I've never tried stretching a bowler because Ive always been under the impression that bowlers can't be stretched. I guess if you steam the felt and work the stretcher slowly it would work. I've had to remove some dents from bowlers and that shellac does soften right up when you steam it and it sets up SUPER quick. Steve, you do bring up a good point about the Conformateur and Formillon. I would imagine that if someone had an oddly shaped head and wanted to use a non-custom made bowler, the hatter would have to find a way to shape the hat. If the bowler is only stretched to one size up, it might be possible to avoid brim flange deformation. I have a couple of crumby old bowlers in bad shape at home that I'm going to try stretching because if they crack, its no big deal. I wouldn't try it though on my good Dobbs and Stetson bowlers. I'm way to scared for that.

I have been able to soften them up with a good amount steam along the ribbon line (just make sure you don't damage the ribbon, sweat, liner). While soft / pliable you can put it on your head to conform and remove after it has cooled and stiffened. If you stretch them up a size you need to watch out that the front and rear brim doesn't buldge out. You can work the buldges out some what with your hand + steam but a iron would work better. The problem is finding one that will fit in such a small space. I have seen old manual heated ones on eBay but never any electric ones although I am sure they were / are available.

 

[Neophyte]

Just lost this auction in the last 2 seconds: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...28&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&autorefresh=true

I hesitated, trying to figure out if I really wanted it or not lol. Got beat by a dollar for my hesitation. Oh well. Was surprised, though, that a Whippet was being listed as a western/cowboy hat lol lol lol!

 

[HatsEnough]

Well, I got that darker brown Whippet I was looking for. Thought it was a fair price for a size 7. Seller says the sweat might be loose but for $89, not bad and right in my size. Once I get it that will give me a tan and darker brown Whippet as well as a green one, a gray with black ribbon and a gray with gray ribbon version (all 1940s era) and one gray with black ribbon from the 1950s with a shorter, 2-1/2 inch brim.

The last Whippet I'd like is an all black one. Shy of that I think I am about done getting Whippets.

 

[HatsEnough]

Just lost this auction in the last 2 seconds: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...28&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&autorefresh=true

I ended up deciding not to bid on that. I went for the dark brown Whippet instead.