Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[barrowjh]

Salty O'Rourke's score

I agree with the seller, looks 1950's to me. By the 1960's the sweatbands were more plain, did not have that foux draw-string look across the back of the head. The definition of a top-shelf hat changed over time, a Stetson 25 that sold for $25 in the early 1950s might be comparable to a Stetson 100 that sold for $100 a decade or more later. Manufacturing inflation did not follow the consumer price inflation exactly.

Here is a 1950's ad for open roads that shows top price at that time was only $50, so a '25' was maybe a 50-50 beaver blend. Should be a really nice hat. http://www.plan59.com/av/av150.htm

 

[Garrett]

MMMMMM i love hamburg.....ers

Me too :essen: :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330439904738&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

 

[rlk]

Me too :essen: :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330439904738&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

He says its a size 7 tag--24"circ and his oval dimensions size out at over 25" or size 8. Great measurement skills. Looks like a nice old one. Lets hope they can read numbers correctly.

 

[jimmy the lid]

I agree with the seller, looks 1950's to me. By the 1960's the sweatbands were more plain, did not have that foux draw-string look across the back of the head. The definition of a top-shelf hat changed over time, a Stetson 25 that sold for $25 in the early 1950s might have been just as nice as a Stetson 100 that sold for $100 a few years later. Manufacturing inflation did not follow the consumer price inflation exactly.

I agree with Salty's original hunch that it is 60's. I think it is mid-60's at the earliest. The gold stripe on the top of the sweat is telling, in combination with that particular liner design. The "drawstring" feature survived into the 60's, based upon other examples that I have seen, so that feature is not inconsistent with mid-60's.

I'd also just add that, while relative quality certainly declined somewhat over time -- I disagree that an early 50's Stetson 25 is on the same quality level as a Stetson 100 from the late 50's. I've sampled the two (as has gtdean), and there is a substantial difference. While Stetson 100's from the early 50's and those from the late 50's may have differed a bit, the overall quality was pretty darn amazing throughout the 50's.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[rlk]

I agree with Salty's original hunch that it is 60's. I think it is mid-60's at the earliest. The gold stripe on the top of the sweat is telling, in combination with that particular liner design. The "drawstring" feature survived into the 60's, based upon other examples that I have seen, so that feature is not inconsistent with mid-60's.

I'd also just add that, while relative quality certainly declined somewhat over time -- I disagree that an early 50's Stetson 25 is on the same quality level as a Stetson 100 from the late 50's. I've sampled the two (as has gtdean), and there is a substantial difference. While Stetson 100's from the early 50's and those from the late 50's may have differed a bit, the overall quality was pretty darn amazing throughout the 50's.

Cheers,
JtL

The black rectangular size tag with rounded corners didn't start until into the 60's. Stetson 25's were advertised as the lighter weight felt option so not comparable to a 100x or 7X.

 

[Lefty]

25's were also the lighter weight felt version.

I have never heard that. Please tell me more about it. Do you have something that describes/advertises them as a lighter weight option? I've never held a 100 at the same time as a 25, I don't own a 100 and don't have a scale to weigh my 25 right now, so I have no idea what either weighs.

 

[barrowjh]

JTL, RLK - Thanks

Needed someone that knew what they were talking about!

 

[rlk]

I have never heard that. Please tell me more about it. Do you have something that describes/advertises them as a lighter weight option? I've never held a 100 at the same time as a 25, I don't own a 100 and don't have a scale to weigh my 25 right now, so I have no idea what either weighs.

If you use your outstanding search skills and find some of those Miller Stockman Catalogs from the 40's and 50's it is described as lighter weight felt and the two I've encountered definitely were thinner than 3x or 7x. Either Buler or Carouselvic has shown the catalogs. I don't own a 100 but they appear to be heavier felt.

 

[Lefty]

Gotcha. With all of the variations I've read about the 7x, and the fact that I have no idea how close in time it was manufactured to my 25, I didn't know if it was valid to compare the two. I'll hunt down vic's posts of the MS catalog.

edit - it was Buler. I would never think to call the 25 light as compared to anything, but now I'm really going to have to compare it with the 7x.
In the Stetson Stuff thread, the 7x is described as "full weight".

yeah, I quoted a photo.

 

[jimmy the lid]

If you use your outstanding search skills and find some of those Miller Stockman Catalogs from the 40's and 50's it is described as lighter weight felt and the two I've encountered definitely were thinner than 3x or 7x. Either Buler or Carouselvic has shown the catalogs. I don't own a 100 but they appear to be heavier felt.

We need gtdean to weigh in here...I certainly did not have a sense that his 50's Stetson 25 was "lightweight" -- and, as a general matter, it would surprise me to learn that the Stetson 25 was actually lightweight. This will be interesting to explore.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[jimmy the lid]

OK -- first of all, great memory, rlk. Lovin' that attention to detail. :eusa_clap

That being said -- I don't believe for a second that the Stetson 25 was materially different, weight-wise, than other Open Roads.

If you notice, every single hat on the page "quoted" by Lefty is described as "lightweight." I believe that that term was used in the service of advertising the OR-style lids generally in the catalogue. I don't think that it is fair to conclude that the advertising approach in the catalogue can actually be used to differentiate between Stetson 100, 7X, 3X, Sovereign, "25", etc. in terms of weight. I think that Stetson's line of ORs was essentially the same in terms of weight, with the various models being distinct in terms of felt quality and finishing.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[carouselvic]

1961

 

[rlk]

OK -- first of all, great memory, rlk. Lovin' that attention to detail. :eusa_clap

That being said -- I don't believe for a second that the Stetson 25 was materially different, weight-wise, than other Open Roads.

If you notice, every single hat on the page "quoted" by Lefty is described as "lightweight." I believe that that term was used in the service of advertising the OR-style lids generally in the catalogue. I don't think that it is fair to conclude that the advertising approach in the catalogue can actually be used to differentiate between Stetson 100, 7X, 3X, Sovereign, "25", etc. in terms of weight. I think that Stetson's line of ORs was essentially the same in terms of weight, with the various models being distinct in terms of felt quality and finishing.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Cheers,
JtL

I wouldn't really consider it lightweight except when compared to a western full weight hat like the 3x or 7x. It is closer to the weight of a typical soft fedora than those. Similar to Royal(deLuxe) and Sovereign but more sizing and possibly some Beaver/Nutria content(speculation). Vics ad above confuses the matter more by calling the 3X lightweight and the 25 medium weight I don't know the 100 you should be able to compare. I don't have a big sample range but my 7X Open Road is virtually double the weight of my 25.

 

[carouselvic]

Measured with a dial caliper

Royal DeLuxe OR .068
3X OR .068
25 OR .062
7X CB OR .061
100 .068
7X CB western .070

 

[jimmy the lid]

I wouldn't really consider it lightweight except when compared to a western full weight hat like the 3x or 7x.

Here's what I would agree with. In a catalogue generally geared to western hats, the OR-style Stetsons would quite appropriately be described as "lightweight." Compared to a western-weight hat, that comparison would absolutely hold up.

That being said, "3X" and "7X" don't necessarily denote a particular weight -- they instead describe a felt content/quality/finishing distinction. As I mentioned in a previous post, the OR family was, essentially, consistent in weight. I have many ORs in various quality designations, and it is very fair to describe them as being generally comparable in weight. (I also have a couple of vintage 3X westerns, that are decidedly "western" in terms of weight.) As a general matter, I think that the Stetson 25 is no different than its other OR brethren weight-wise. Quality-wise, it's a damn nice lid.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[rlk]

Royal DeLuxe OR .068
3X OR .068
25 OR .062
7X CB OR .061
100 .068
7X CB western .070

Just weighed the 7X and 25 I have from same period and the 7X(with Open Road on sweat) was 1 ounce heavier(26 grams to be precise)with the same dimensions. A Royal DeLuxe was 1 gram different than the 25.
Maybe I have an odd 7XCB Open Road that was built like a tank.

 

[Garrett]

Alright, boys - you made me do this...

fftopic:

 

[Lefty]

totally, but this is the ephemeral thread. No one will look back on these pages after a few more auctions have been posted.

Once this is resolved, it should be stated as a flat conclusion in the Quality Think Tank thread, and all those who were in opposition to the "right" answer forced to +1 it.

 

[rlk]

totally, but this is the ephemeral thread. No one will look back on these pages after a few more auctions have been posted.

Once this is resolved, it should be stated as a flat conclusion in the Quality Think Tank thread, and all those who were in opposition to the "right" answer forced to +1 it.

I'm curious as to the conclusions if any can be made. I don't have a large sample size of Stetson ORs myself so others can probably better compare. Apparently Stetson literature will not be helpful.

 

[ScottF]

totally, but this is the ephemeral thread. No one will look back on these pages after a few more auctions have been posted.

Once this is resolved, it should be stated as a flat conclusion in the Quality Think Tank thread, and all those who were in opposition to the "right" answer forced to +1 it.

lol Don't be having too much fun - remember what we're here for!