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Thanks Daniel. Looking forward to getting it in hand.Love those pre-52 3Xs! That one is gorgeous. Super.
Well in case anyone missed a semi-annual gripe, our favorite seller sawinokur (sawinokur8083) is up to the same tricks. It seemed that for a little while they changed their text to be less specific about how hats came from "dad's collection" when the hats were actually just relistings after purchases on other sites such as Goodwill. Ok, maybe it's a deadhorse for quite a few of us, but every now and again someone new comes along who is unfamiliar with all the fun
"One of the rarest of all Stetsons! Along with an extremely rare Stetson “Privateer” hat box that’s in new condition! This is one set that NO one will have! When it was pulled out of dads hat collection we just couldn’t believe it was there! This is an extremely rare and very special set!
Dad decided to shape it into this shape because we had just watch a few of the old Clint Eastwood cowboy movies and it inspired dad to give it this shape. With some convincing dad would reshape it. If you look through dads listings you can see that cowboy fedora shape, John Wayne cowboy fedora in “3 Godfathers”. But you will need to write to dad and ask him to reshape it after the purchase."
....and here are the links to the original sale on Goodwill and the listing in question:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325330466431
https://shopgoodwill.com/item/149448942
Why keep doing it?
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Dad must be turning over in his grave…
Yeah, creases from the cript.Apparently he’s still creasing hats to order if you write him.
Apparently he’s still creasing hats to order if you write him.
In this case the crease he put in looks remarkably like the crease the hat had over at Goodwill....
Why make that all up? At this point it looks pathological.
You would be surprised........not to us of course......but to that person who is buying just one vintage hat to wear around/hang on the wall............the BS can lock a sale.I also don’t think his lies add to the hat or bring him a higher price. I’m not sure why he does this.
You would be surprised........not to us of course......but to that person who is buying just one vintage hat to wear around/hang on the wall............the BS can lock a sale.
Agreed......I don't understand at all how he gets away with it. Quite frankly...he is committing a fraud by legal definition..........I guess Ebay does not care as long as the dollars are rolling in.I don’t doubt you, but I guess I just like to think that he’s not profiting from his lies. Strange that eBay doesn’t have a false provenance option when reporting sellers.
Isn’t it really buyer beware, caveat emptor & all that?Quite frankly...he is committing a fraud by legal definition.........
True…. But at the same time fraud is still fraud.Isn’t it really buyer beware, caveat emptor & all that?
I’ll give a real life example. A different seller once had a hat listed for auction I was interested in. He had reason to believe thru family the hat was purchased during the yrs 1948 -1949, but it clearly had an OPS tag. I didn’t care that his timeline was off. But in answering my questions about the hat the seller told me that he had been contacted by a “Fedora Lounge expert” to tell him that his hat couldn’t be a 1948-1949 because the OPS tag wasn’t used until 1951. If you’re a potential buyer interested in the hat you would probably know that. Why would this “expert” take it upon himself to go after the seller for his honest mistake other than the experts own ego? No harm, no foul.True…. But at the same time fraud is still fraud.
Really depends on what is being embellished and to what degree.
Claims of false advertising generally come down to “would any normal person believe this to be true.. or is it just hyperbole“ Can really be both a high and low bar depending on legal counsel
You point though, John, should be well taken. Buyer beware.
I situations like that the buyer was not INTENTIONALLY misrepresenting the item, they were giving information as they understood it.I’ll give a real life example. A different seller once had a hat listed for auction I was interested in. He had reason to believe thru family the hat was purchased during the yrs 1948 -1949, but it clearly had an OPS tag. I didn’t care that his timeline was off. But in answering my questions about the hat the seller told me that he had been contacted by a “Fedora Lounge expert” to tell him that his hat couldn’t be a 1948-1949 because the OPS tag wasn’t used until 1951. If you’re a potential buyer interested in the hat you would probably know that. Why would this “expert” take it upon himself to go after the seller for his honest mistake other than the experts own ego? No harm, no foul.
If a seller listed an OR sold thru the LBJ or Truman museum & was claiming it personally belonged to the former President because it had his name imprinted in it, without a COA the buyer should take responsibility for his mistake. Proving malicious intent vs an honest verbal misrepresentation by the seller would be very hard to prove in a court of law.That is why on high ticket items you often want multiple certificates of provenance AND a actionable guarantee of authenticity for those items.