Eastman's RAF 1942

[jon11]

I have looked at the Eastman's RAF Irvin repro on their site, can someone tell me is the color of the sheepskin (ginger color) correct for the 1942 jacket. Just I assumed the sheepskin was meant to be a tan color? Thanks, J

 

[aswatland]

A small number of mid War jackets were made from sheepskin of this dark copper hew. However many more were made from the more frequently seen honey-coloured fleece. If you browse the large original Irvin thread you will see Irvins made from fleece that is almost white through to black.

 

[jon11]

cheers Andrew will do.

 

[B-24J]

Hi Jon,

You can request Eastman to send a sample of the sheepskin. They are very nice about that and are very prompt. I strongly suggest the sample as web site photos can be misleading.

John

 

[Stand By]

Hi Jon,
I have an ELC RAF 1942 “Irvin” and I can assure you that it is 100% accurate – as, back around 1988, I was lucky enough to handle my old doctor’s Irvin from his days in the war; he flew Swordfish in the Fleet Air Arm and he said it had been "in the drink a few times" ! I remember seeing it and being completely surprised at the brown fleece as, like you, I had thought (at that time) that they were all cream-coloured. And ELC has matched it perfectly.
Buy with confidence.
David

 

[aswatland]

Hi Jon,
I have an ELC RAF 1942 “Irvin” and I can assure you that it is 100% accurate – as, back around 1988, I was lucky enough to handle my old doctor’s Irvin from his days in the war; he flew Swordfish in the Fleet Air Arm and he said it had been "in the drink a few times" ! I remember seeing it and being completely surprised at the brown fleece as, like you, I had thought (at that time) that they were all cream-coloured. And ELC has matched it perfectly.
Buy with confidence.
David

David I have owned several 1942 pattern ELC Irvins. They are great jackets but are not 100% accurate repros. The zips are much closer to originals than those used on Aero Irvins, but they are not 100% accurate, neither being Dots or Lightnings, which were used on Irvins from this time. ELC have used a variety of different batches of fleece over the time, but the actual skin (not the fleece) is never as thick as used on original Irvins. The belts Eastman use are made of thinner cowhide than on originals and the male side is on the short side. Having said this Gary's Irvins are more accurate repros than those made by Aero. A newer comer to the Irvin scene, Aces High, make the most accurate Irvin repros on the market at the moment.

 

[jon11]

Thanks guys appreciate all the advice. J

 

[Stand By]

Hi Andrew
Jon’s original inquiry was solely regarding the colour of the fleece and he asked if it was accurate – and my answer was only to that point.

However, you’ve taught me something new and I’ve just looked up Aces High - and I agree, they do look to have the edge on ELC to me. So thank you for the tip there ! That’s great to know !
And you’re quite right – the original jacket of my old GP’s was surprising in how remarkably light in weight it was – as the hide was thinner as you say, clearly due to wartime constraints. But the war’s over, and personally, I’d prefer to trade a little accuracy for something a bit more substantial in that regard … just for practicality’s sake. But that’s just me.
I’m not a fan of Gary’s new “warhorse” leather/aging process (what does he do to <cough> ruin <cough> make it like that?) and my only gripe with my jacket is that I wish my jacket had the original un-distressed hide as seen in The Golden Book – but alas I’d just missed that bus when I ordered. For me, there’s just no substitute for aging leather properly other than wearing it often and in all weathers like the originals.
And yes, the Ri-Ri zip isn’t super-authentic – but it works very well and looks the part to me.

So Jon – my bottom line is that the ELC captures the flavour and essence of an original for me and I’m happy with it …. But that said, if I ever need a replacement for it, I now know I’d be calling Aces High!
I hope that helps you.

 

[John Lever]

There is no Warhorse leather used in any ELC RAF jackets.

 

[Stand By]

Quite right, John, there is no Warhorse on the RAF jackets. But I was specifically speaking of both types of the “aged” leather on offer at ELC and saying that I simply wasn’t a fan of either – the Warhorse AND this type; the ELC RAF jackets used to have a smooth, glossy finish – which, ideally, I would have preferred as that was how originals were supplied - and now it has one that is matt and looks dried out. It’s quite a good effect and it looks the part and I’m sure that many people would prefer it over an original finish, just like some people like Pepsi and some prefer Coke. For myself, I prefer Pepsi - and an original finish as they were supplied. That’s all I was saying.

 

[John Lever]

Quite right, John, there is no Warhorse on the RAF jackets. But I was specifically speaking of both types of the “aged” leather on offer at ELC and saying that I simply wasn’t a fan of either – the Warhorse AND this type; the ELC RAF jackets used to have a smooth, glossy finish – which, ideally, I would have preferred as that was how originals were supplied - and now it has one that is matt and looks dried out. It’s quite a good effect and it looks the part and I’m sure that many people would prefer it over an original finish, just like some people like Pepsi and some prefer Coke. For myself, I prefer Pepsi - and an original finish as they were supplied. That’s all I was saying.

Most if not all the photos on the ELC website are months/years out of date. Batches of skins vary widely and some of the new skins are the same as those used years ago. The change was made because people disliked the dry dull character of the sheepskin. The B-3 50 Cal. photo shows a dull dry dessicated jacket. I have the new skin, it's soft and shiny not at all like the photos.
Similarly the Devon fleece now looks nothing like the dog haired jacket in the photos. The new jacket has thick shiny curly wool with a soft skin with none of the dead dryness that it's predecessor had.

 

[Sloan1874]

There's no excuse for an out of date website nowadays. If you rely on worldwide sales, then you have to present a reasonably current picture to potential customers - for your own sake at least!

 

[Stand By]

Well that’s all good to know ! Thanks John.
I bought mine about a month after ELC had switched over to this matt finish. I asked Gary if I could have the other, recently made glossy finish (like the 1940 type I had) and he said no. Fair enough – so I thought that I’d go for it anyway (as I said, it fondly reminded me so much of my GP’s jacket) and then work up the finish with time and leather conditioners just as I had my previous jacket. I was sure I’d prevail…
But a few days later after every application of the conditioner, this jacket of mine just returns to its default and intended finish – matt with a finely crazed (desiccated, as you correctly describe) finish. It just looks rather dead and very dried out no matter what I do. To my mind, the leather just suggests more damaged than “aged” by whatever process (by heat?) it originally got. So it always looks somewhat thirsty – but worse things happen at sea, as they say.
Living abroad as I do, I’ve been unable to get to Duxford for a few years and see/handle the newer finishes first hand, so I must say that I ‘m greatly reassured to hear that I’m not the only one who felt/feels this way about the old “aged” finish and the photos aren’t reflective of the newer materials offered – I’m glad to know that it’s been remedied because I still think it’s a great jacket. Thanks for the update.

 

[John Lever]

There is a solution, buy some Kiwi clear wax shine. It's a type of clear acrylic wax liquid that dries in minutes.
The jacket will be transformed I promise.

 

[Stand By]

Hi John,
Wow ! THANK YOU ! Now that’s an inspired and brilliant tip if ever I saw one …!

I’ve googled “Kiwi Clear Wax Shine” and I see a few products by Kiwi - some are a liquid and others a paste in a tin like the shoe polishes.
Is this the one you’d recommend ?

http://www.amazon.com/Kiwi-SELECT-Premium-Wax-Shine/dp/B0010TL1BC