Eastman (ELMC) Throws Their Hat in the J-100 Ring

[Sloan1874]

Right to express an opinion also comes with the right of others to point and laugh at that opinion.

 

[Capesofwrath]

Right to express an opinion also comes with the right of others to point and laugh at that opinion.

That isn’t so much a right as an unfortunate human habit. It’s a main reason why I avoid Twitter and similar speak your brains spaces like a plague. Though it can be amusing reading that a so called celebrity thinks that the earth is flat or that evolution is just an unproved theory. But I wouldn’t post to tell him he was an idiot or point at him in the street.

 

[nick123]

This guy is such an idiot:

http://www.greatdreams.com/John-Lear.htm

As is this guy:

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2013/12/pilot-testimonials-captain-kenju-terauchi/

This guy too:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case482.htm

Finally, this guy:

 

[pawineguy]

This guy is such an idiot:

http://www.greatdreams.com/John-Lear.htm

As is this guy:

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2013/12/pilot-testimonials-captain-kenju-terauchi/

This guy too:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case482.htm

Finally, this guy:

JFK was speaking about communism, not some secret society.

 

[Jägernaut]

I thought it was about zionists.

 

[ButteMT61]

I'm also concerned that we can't politely discuss this here. If a maker - well known here - decides to post up that stuff on a company page, then it should be fair game to discuss here (I know, not my joint). I'm hoping that we can, as this is the most fun we've had since BK went off to Area 51.

Honestly, I would be willing to bet that more folks in this realm have this sort of mindset. I see it in the reenacting space as well. It's actually a very political arena, and this does not surprise me at all, except that it's really really poor business practice.

 

[HPA Rep]

I wish I was kidding. Unfortunately, Eastman's Instagram is the tip of the iceberg. Eastman Leather’s blog is even more revealing:

http://blog.eastmanleather.com/view-post/false-flag-operation-northwoods

Gary Eastman believes that both the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 World Trade Center attack were orchestrated by the United States Government. #speechless
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Mods: Given that Eastman Leather broadcasts these theories on its website, utilized to sell its jackets, Eastman clearly wants the buying public to know its views on these issues. Therefore, this information is appropriate for discussion.

The old PH conspiracy dates back to WWII and it comes and goes in popularity over the years. The PH attack was a focal point of study for me while getting my history degree, thanks to being mentored by a professor who had himself spent a great deal of time researching this and who specialized in naval and maritime history. I have continued my research right to the present, and while new information has been unearthed since my college and grad school days, no serious, mainstream scholar or academician can see any signs of a setup for the attack and the late Gordon Prange's masterwork, "At Dawn We Slept," still remains the backbone for reading on the subject of the attack.

It is unfortunate that documentary makers, TV networks, and various periodicals and papers have given time to presenting conspiracy theories on this subject, which leads those who don't do any primary research and critical thinking to conclude it happened or is, at the least, a real possibility. This has even manifested itself in the writings of a journalist, Michael Yon, whom I once fully respected and who wrote with great recognition and acclaim on Iraq and Afghanistan, but who now espouses the PH conspiracy as fact based on a book of poor historiography, and who is now also making the argument that there was no rape of Nanking by the Japanese and that the Comfort Girls were not forced into their roles.

It is often difficult to balance good work against the outlandish positions of an individual when they start making spurious statements on select subjects, and this is often more difficult in the case of this journalist, who continues to write many good stories and advocates for great, commonsense things that keep the military strong and our troops safe such as retaining the A-10 Warthog. I've come to just accept that there will be positions this journalist takes that I will agree with and others I won't, not so much different than with any other person I may know or meet.

So I vehemently don't agree with the positions that Eastman seems to be making, but at this point in time, that doesn't change my view of the work they do as a manufacturer. Maybe I'm alone, but if some actor takes a position on something I disagree with yet I find them to be an undeniable talent whose work I like as an actor, I'm simply going to separate the actor's performances, which is fantasy and entertainment, from the person and continue to enjoy their acting while disagreeing with them as individuals.

 

[HPA Rep]

Aero, Real McCoys and Diamond Dave all use the Buco label. Not sure if there are others.

Wow, that I didn't know in light of the licensed use by RMC of the name. That surely dilutes the value of that license, which Superfluous and I already questioned as being unnecessary.

 

[ButteMT61]

^^ It depends. I have not gone to see films or bought records based on the outlandish behavior of the artists, and I certainly have avoided some jacket makers for bizarro behavior. Frankly, when someone is that over the top, I prefer NOT to support them with my dollars. So while I get your point, voting with my wallet is one of the few things I can do that actually makes me feel somewhat better.

 

[HPA Rep]

I'm also concerned that we can't politely discuss this here. If a maker - well known here - decides to post up that stuff on a company page, then it should be fair game to discuss here (I know, not my joint). I'm hoping that we can, as this is the most fun we've had since BK went off to Area 51.

Honestly, I would be willing to bet that more folks in this realm have this sort of mindset. I see it in the reenacting space as well. It's actually a very political arena, and this does not surprise me at all, except that it's really really poor business practice.

I want very much to agree with you on all points, but I'm wondering just how much of this veers into a political commentary that, to my knowledge, is verboten on this forum.

Stu of Lost Worlds certainly has been far from shy in posting "hot" subjects on his company website and these have been addressed here, so it would seem fair to discuss this. It all makes me wonder how much of this is deliberate by the makers to create chatter because, as the saying goes, publicity, even negative, is still publicity and there will always be those who either don't care or who may actually agree, thus the ratio of lost buyers to those gained may be a wash or even some level of gain. In the case of Eastman (more specifically ELMC), some in the USA will like this position, and I think it will help them even more outside the USA. But this is all just speculation and none of us know what it's about, what will happen, or even if it came from the owner.

Personally, I leave my beliefs on these sort of "hot" topics for private discussion among those I know and leave the HPA website and what I say here for positions about products and, perhaps, a little bit of military history on subjects less inclined to draw fire.

 

[HPA Rep]

^^ It depends. I have not gone to see films or bought records based on the outlandish behavior of the artists, and I certainly have avoided some jacket makers for bizarro behavior. Frankly, when someone is that over the top, I prefer NOT to support them with my dollars. So while I get your point, voting with my wallet is one of the few things I can do that actually makes me feel somewhat better.

And it's your right and choice to do so, while the actors, manufacturers, brands, etc. have to live with the results.

 

[Superfluous]

As to his opinions... It takes all sorts and he’s entitled to believe what he wants to in my book.

Eastman is undeniably entitled to believe whatever he wants. Likewise, I am entitled to be offended by his beliefs, and to boycott his products based on his beliefs.

Absolutely. When that opinion becomes integral to a marketing message is when consumer tends to take note, and the company then has to live with the consequences.

Exactly!

I certainly have avoided some jacket makers for bizarro behavior. Frankly, when someone is that over the top, I prefer NOT to support them with my dollars. So while I get your point, voting with my wallet is one of the few things I can do that actually makes me feel somewhat better.

Bingo.

So I vehemently don't agree with the positions that Eastman seems to be making

I am pleased to read this. Fortunately, you carry several other brands that I will continue to patronize.

Maybe I'm alone, but if some actor takes a position on something I disagree with yet I find them to be an undeniable talent whose work I like as an actor, I'm simply going to separate the actor's performances, which is fantasy and entertainment, from the person and continue to enjoy their acting while disagreeing with them as individuals.

I suspect some will continue to patronize Eastman notwithstanding his controversial views, but others will not.

 

[HPA Rep]

I just heard from Gary Eastman on this topic of the IG post and he stated that he himself did not make the post but he is aware of it. I cannot further reveal the remainder of what he had to say on the subject since this was what I deem personal correspondence, but suffice it to say he sees things taking place in the EU that are extremely troubling and which, as part of a whole, he traces back to 9-11, thus he's not shy to broadcast this as a warning before it's too late. My impression is that he is very passionate and driven by high motives, so this didn't strike me as a marketing tool and is just something he is inclined to want to get off his chest to help others. He also stated in no uncertain terms that nothing negative exists in his own mind and heart that was directed to the veterans who served, whom he holds in only the highest regard and believes they are always just the pawns for the gains of those at the top.

While individuals may not like what he thinks and says, it is coming from someone who genuinely believes he's correct and who is deeply devoted to not seeing the status quo maintained, his homeland and his business implode, and citizen soldiers pay such a price again for no good gain.

I can somewhat liken this to a U. S. Naval officer, the late Commander Kemp Tolley, who wrote a book about his experiences surrounding the PH attack entitled "Cruise of the Lanikai," which is very much worth reading. Cdr. Tolley went on to have a distinguished naval career and I attended an event and met Cdr. Tolley, and the only impression I got from him, unlike most PH conspiracy theorists, was that he 100% GENUINELY believed FDR set him up along with his crew and those on the other two ships involved. It was Cdr. Tolley's honest belief based on intriguing information and his first-person, eyes-on experiences that made him not appear as a lune among many lunes saying similar things.

I could go on for hours and hours on the PH attack and the many holes in the conspiracy theories, so I'll stop now on this, and also the Eastman topic at hand.

 

[Superfluous]

I just heard from Gary Eastman on this topic of the IG post and he stated that he himself did not make the post but he is aware of it.

Gary Eastman is aware of the IG post and, importantly, he has allowed it to remain. Moreover, all objections, including that posted by @pawineguy, have been removed.

As mentioned above, the IG post is the tip of the iceberg.

this didn't strike me as a marketing tool

Gary Eastman's views are explicated on a Blog that is part of the Eastman Leather website -- the same website where the jackets are sold. Moreover, the IG post includes #eastmanleathers and #elmc hashtags, such that the statements are being used to market the jackets (and Eastman allowed those hashtags to remain).

While individuals may not like what he thinks and says, it is coming from someone who genuinely believes he's correct.

I don't think anyone doubts Gary Eastman's convictions. However, as previously noted, we are entitled to be offended by his convictions, and to boycott his products based on his convictions.

I could go on for hours and hours on the PH attack and the many holes in the conspiracy theories, so I'll stop now on this

For me, this is not a discussion about "holes" in Eastman's theories. Rather, the real issue is whether we, as consumers, want to do business with a person who holds Eastman's beliefs, and who publicizes those beliefs on the product website. I have already answered that question. Others must decide for themselves.

 

[ButteMT61]

Looks like it's gone now? Don't see it.

 

[Superfluous]

Looks like it's gone now? Don't see it.

The IG post is still there, with objections removed: https://www.instagram.com/p/BCC7qIJRN0F/

Ditto the Blog: http://blog.eastmanleather.com/view-post/false-flag-operation-northwoods

 

[pawineguy]

Looks like it's gone now? Don't see it.

Still there but with my comments removed. PH conspiracy frankly is the tip of the iceberg. I understand Gary's concern about post 9/11 government security decisions, the use of military force, etc... something that has been debated since 9/12 in almost all western countries. There's a big gulf between that and the idea that my government murdered thousand of its own citizens. Regardless, it's out in the open now, and everyone can make their own decision.

 

[Superfluous]

I understand Gary's concern about post 9/11 government security decisions, the use of military force, etc... something that has been debated since 9/12 in almost all western countries. There's a big gulf between that and the idea that my government murdered thousand of its own citizens.

Exactly. This is not about the propriety of the United States' response to 9/11. Rather, this is about a claim -- advanced by a jacket manufacturer on its product website and IG -- that the United States orchestrated 9/11 and, in so doing, murdered thousands of its own citizens.

 

[Otter]

Does Elvis still wear a I-100 ?

 

[ButteMT61]

Does Elvis still wear a I-100 ?

Only when he's at McDonalds in Troy, MI.

And...no, the IG post is gone now. LOL