Eastman (ELMC) Throws Their Hat in the J-100 Ring

[Justhandguns]

It is very difficult to understand some of the sales tactics of ELC these days. Some might say it is because they mainly target the Asian market rather than Europe and N.America., but with the weak Japanese Yen and the other offerings from some independent makers, it is just strange for ELC to get into the J100 boat so late, especially with their off the rack sizings and premium pricings.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

True that JHG

 

[Monitor]

That's exactly what I have been thinking - I understand that the J-100 is a safe bet but I believe that the companies like ELC, Aero, RMC, etc. run a successful business exactly because they didn't want to play it safe and instead decided to go exclusively with a comparatively very niche market, which is the repro freaks. And sure, they made it out there, but this isn't big business & they only reason they're doing well is because of the inflated prices of their products and the people willing to spend the money.
So, as popular as the J-100 is right now, I'm afraid there is going to happen a split in their intended market, as the true fans of the vintage reproductions will rightfully so get tired of seeing this same jacket on everyone and their dog (by which I do not mean everyone, as I'd still have to cross a couple of borders to find a person wearing a genuine repro of a J-100 - but rather in the circles they frequent) & will naturally either move on to something else, in a search for a (jacket) style that will once again make them stand out of the mall fashion cladded masses, which is what the intention behind getting such a piece of outerwear (and going into this whole vintage deal) was in the first place.

On the other hand, the mall fashionistas, which make the largest chunk of market, are definitely not the money the ELC should be sniffing around as they couldn't care less about none of the things that makes ELC a great brand that it is, things like authenticity, material, constructions, etc.; in other words, nothing that would make mall goers justify spending over a grand for a piece of clothing they simply do not have the intention of wearing for more than one season.

Also, ELC is not a known brand, not by far, which is possibly the only thing that would get the attention of a casual fashion shopper so... It could be that their J-100 might actually do them more harm than good. Some other, fresh style, however, could've diverted some serious attention from their intended market - especially a style to which there is no readily available alternative, other than some beaten up, moldy vintage piece.

I don't know, just thinking out loud here...

 

[belopsky]

I contacted Thedi Leathers..that green jacket is something like $800 USD shipped. Not terrible all in all..My Vanson was more..

 

[Carlos840]

That's exactly what I have been thinking - I understand that the J-100 is a safe bet but I believe that the companies like ELC, Aero, RMC, etc. made it because they didn't want to play it safe and instead decided to go exclusively with a comparatively very niche market, which is the repro freaks. And sure, they made it but this isn't big business & they only reason they're doing well is because of the inflated prices of their products. So, as popular as the J-100 is right now, I'm afraid there is going to happen a split in their intended market, as the true fans of the vintage reproductions will rightfully so get tired of seeing this same jacket on everyone and their dog (by which I do not mean everyone, as I'd still have to cross a couple of borders to find a person wearing a genuine repro of a J-100 - but rather in the circles they frequent) & will naturally either move on to something else, in a search for a (jacket) style that will once again make them stand out of the mall fashion cladded masses, which is what the intention behind getting such a piece of outerwear (and going into this whole vintage deal) was in the first place.

On the other hand, the mall fashionistas, which make the largest chunk of market, are definitely not the money the ELC should be sniffing around as they couldn't care less about any of the things that make ELC what it is, things like authenticity, material, constructions, etc.; in other words, nothing that would make mall goers justify spending over a grand for a piece of clothing they simply do not have the intention of wearing for more than one season.

Also, ELC is not a known brand, not by far, which is possibly the only thing that would get the attention of a casual fashion shopper so... It could be that their J-100 might actually do them more harm than good. Some other, fresh style, however, could've diverted some serious attention from their intended market - a style to which there is no readily available alternative.

I don't know, just thinking out loud here...

Keep in mind that this jacket is probably going to be sold under the ELMC brand/website, which is even less known and more expensive than the original ELC.
I am pretty sure they are just trying to get it into the Japanese market, they must have noticed that RMC, DD, GW etc are all doing it and figured it was a good idea.
But i agree, they are definitely late to the party.

This raises one more question, why would an already small unknown brand decide to split itself in two even smaller ones.

Saying that, i would love to try one on, see how it compares to my DD.

 

[belopsky]

So many acronyms..

GW - GoodWear Leather?

DD??

RMC? Real McCoy ? They are Japanese..

 

[Carlos840]

So many acronyms..

GW - GoodWear Leather?

DD??

RMC? Real McCoy ? They are Japanese..

Sorry, you are correct on both, DD is Diamond Dave, owner of Diamond Clothing.

Eastman is split between Eastman Leather clothing, selling a couple civilian jackets but mostly military repro and Eastman Motorcycle Leather Clothing, selling mostly civilian designs and a couple military ones.
Writing the previous sentence really made me realize even more how stupid this cision is! I really wonder why they did that...
Actually, looking at my receipts, when i first ordered a Roadstar on the ELC website it sold for £695, a year later it sold for £849 on the ELMC website. ( I ended up sending it back as it didn't fit me right).

I can't help but think it's all marketing BS, they didn't want to taint ELC with the whole hipster cool image they gave ELMC, but wanted the hipster cool image to be able to increase their prices a lot and get into the same market as RMC etc.

 

[belopsky]

Interesting..

What I wonder (and hope) is what makers will continue sticking to normal prices..but i mean..it is capitalism so...

 

[Monitor]

I can't help but think it's all marketing BS, they didn't want to taint ELC with the whole hipster cool image they gave ELMC, but wanted the hipster cool image to be able to increase their prices a lot and get into the same market as RMC etc.

Exactly what I've been thinking & wondering about! I wasn't even sure at first if the ELMC was the same manufacturer until I realized that the whole thing is just a very elaborate marketing plan, aimed toward the hipster biker nonsense scene that was already on the decline and falling into mainstream even as the ELMC was launched. They're good jackets, though, the ELMC ones. Though that jumping mustache video that'd run with the ELMC page was cringe-worthy.

I'm surprised Belstaff is this late to the party - to make it worse, they're attempting this from another angle, one that must be especially painful for the Britons! Did anyone see those horrors on their page, lately? I'm surprised they can get away with ripping Lewis Leathers designs off this blatantly. But it's the biker Beckham video that really takes the cake.

I wonder how much did they had to pay this poor soul...

I don't even...

 

[belopsky]

when will this all die down and these items go on sale?

 

[Tedquinton]

That chap on the bike, remind you of anyone...

 

[Blackadder]

I don't think it is a bad call. Simple design, easy to wear, this model is like the 'entry level' MC jacket. Seeing that the Japanese off-the-shelf brands are made for Asian fit. Eastman is probably the only one making this model off the shelf in Western fit. Though it may cost more than a Schott or Vanson, it is likely to cost less than a Himel and is readily available, it may help introduce Eastman to a bigger customer base.
Incidentally, Eastman is well established in Taiwan and has a couple of dealers in Mainland. A few of my friends bought their Eastman in Taiwan.

 

[Superfluous]

I can't help but think it's all marketing BS, they didn't want to taint ELC with the whole hipster cool image they gave ELMC, but wanted the hipster cool image to be able to increase their prices a lot and get into the same market as RMC etc.

the whole thing is just a very elaborate marketing plan

^^ This

 

[Edward]

I'd love one of the Thedi washed green jackets but I don't know if I could pull it off enough to get a decent amount of wear out of it.

That green is nice. I'd like to see it on one of their.... what do they call the model that is in the same style as the Himel Cossack and the Aero Aeromarine? I can admire a well-cut cafe racer, but I decided years ago it's just not quite right as a style on me. Thedi are donig something quite interesting design wise. Too modern a look for me (mostly 70s in style to my eye, and I've never liked thoe ribbed stretch panels, which I first saw on jackets in the early 90s), but they have a clear brand identity and they do it well, which serves them better than becoming an 'also-ran' in a crowded marketplace.

That said, I don't fault ELMC for going with the Buco J-100. Its an iconic design that is in high demand among most jacket buyers who have no idea about other mandarin collar moto jackets. In other words, its a safe bet.

Pretty much. They're obviously sure they can market it, or it wouldn't be in the range...

This raises one more question, why would an already small unknown brand decide to split itself in two even smaller ones.

It's a fairly sound marketing move, imo. The existing Eastman brand is known for its WW2 era flying jackets - there's a very specific brand identity there. The ELMC stuff is very 1960s-hippy-biker; a very different brand identity. It makes more sense to group and market that with its own brand identity than to mix the two and dilute the existing Eastman brand.

Exactly what I've been thinking & wondering about! I wasn't even sure at first if the ELMC was the same manufacturer until I realized that the whole thing is just a very elaborate marketing plan, aimed toward the hipster biker nonsense scene that was already on the decline and falling into mainstream even as the ELMC was launched. They're good jackets, though, the ELMC ones. Though that jumping mustache video that'd run with the ELMC page was cringe-worthy.

That's exactly what it is: marketing. Different brand identities for two very different customer bases.

I'm surprised Belstaff is this late to the party - to make it worse, they're attempting this from another angle, one that must be especially painful for the Britons! Did anyone see those horrors on their page, lately? I'm surprised they can get away with ripping Lewis Leathers designs off this blatantly. But it's the biker Beckham video that really takes the cake.

Very obviously trying to play to the image of the 50s/60s Rocker here.... the studio set they've used here looks like they're aiming specifically at aping the Ace Cafe, though obviously they've not hired the place itself (given their arrangement and dealing with both Lewis and Mascot, I doubt that was an option anyhow). In terms of jackets being close to Lewis designs, it's not impossible that they could do that legally - it'll be about how they do it. The right in a design can last for up to 25 years in the UK and Europe, then it's gone. Here in the UK, copyright typically doesn't protect fashion design because (at least in theory) while clothing may be pleasing to the eye, its primary purpose is functional, and you can't copyright function.
http://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2014/03/article_0007.html

Upshot of this is that Lewis' rights in these designs are long exhausted, so even though they're still around and able to make faithful recreations of the originals (which, after all, is their selling point), as long as there's no danger of market confusion (i.e. a competitor isn't trying to pass off his own jacket as a genuine Lewis), others can make their versions too. It's along these lines as to why Schott can't prevent other brands from making a Perfecto style jacket - though they can obviously protect the brand under TM law (Schott, Perfecto, et cetera). Once a design is of a certain age, there's little can be done to protect it. These laws, of course, are designed on the basis of fickle fashion; application becomes interesting once you get into a niche such as this! The design rights law does allow for protection of a new pattern which replicates an old design, which is why two different companies can legitimately produce the same vintage jacket style (as happened with, e.g. the style that Aero call the Aeromarine and Himmel the Cossack, and several others also make), but they have to come up with their own pattern.

Naturally, a company as big as Belstaff will have access to all the legal advice they need and won't have run any risks! I don't much care for their high fashion take on this, though the sheepskin version of the Perfecto style could be interesting if it wasn't silly money (which it will be).

 

[HPA Rep]

I must agree with what appears to be a minority opinion here and say that the ELMC J-100 is a good idea that will sell and which we will certainly stock. Blakadder has, I believe, stated the salient points of viability quite well below:

I don't think it is a bad call. Simple design, easy to wear, this model is like the 'entry level' MC jacket. Seeing that the Japanese off-the-shelf brands are made for Asian fit. Eastman is probably the only one making this model off the shelf in Western fit. Though it may cost more than a Schott or Vanson, it is likely to cost less than a Himel and is readily available, it may help introduce Eastman to a bigger customer base.

Incidentally, Eastman is well established in Taiwan and has a couple of dealers in Mainland. A few of my friends bought their Eastman in Taiwan.

I would just add that Eastman is a premium manufacturer with a solid reputation for quality assembly and materials, they have the logistics of manufacturing down quite well and can produce sizes that will readily fit most of the market with reasonable delivery times, and a base of retailers around the world with product on hand for rapid delivery to the consumer in the geographic sphere nearest to them.

An ELMC J-100 will satisfy many who want a high-end design of this type off the rack and in western sizing (both of which would apply to what a vintage J-100 would be, thus quiet authentic), who want it when they want it, and it will indeed introduce Eastman/ELMC to some who might find their other offerings too old in design for their taste and/or too military in style.

I think a point that gets overlooked in these discussions too often is the mythical belief that everyone or nearly everyone who purchases in the premium price range must be highly motivated by the prospect of a custom fit and also is willing to wait months or more to get their jacket. While there is an undoubted market of consequence for jackets meeting this criteria, there is yet another that doesn't find a need for custom sizing and that places a high priority on rapid availability when the impulse strikes. Interestingly and to punctuate this point, a TFL member who has custom jackets by other premium brands has ordered an ELMC Californian just this week because he not only wanted one based on all he's seen and read, but because we have them on hand and he could have his selection UPS express shipped and in his hands to begin enjoying within a day.

I look forward to trying on a sample in my size very soon, followed by our first order for retailing in N. America.

 

[ProteinNerd]

The only thing surprising about this is that it's taken them this long.

 

[Sloan1874]

Actually, when you think about it, Freddie and Kenny do a passable impression of him...

 

[bn1966]

I'd buy one I have recently found an original early Brooks CR jacket in a genuine XXL modern UK 46 (took me some years). When I was richer than I am today (last year) I would have made a purchase if ELC had been selling them then.

 

[HPA Rep]

The only thing surprising about this is that it's taken them this long.

I cannot disagree with you on this point, and I also wonder why this type wasn't planned as part of the initial lineup of styles when ELMC debuted. Oh, well, better late than never ...

 

[Justhandguns]

But honestly, when I buy a J-100, I want one which has got the Buco J-100 logo on there, no an ELMC. Otherwise I would have bought a Schott cafe racer instead for half the price.