Eastman B-17 W.A.S.P. Jacket for ladies.

[Big J]

Any got one of these, or bought one for their spouse?
Someone must, they're all out of stock except for one size...

I want to get one for my wife, she's got the body of a Romain Hugault pin up, but working out ladies sizing is so hard; she's got two Burberry raincoats, both different sizes, but they fit her the same.

Anyone know anything about these jackets and how they fit?

And I don't know, but we're these jackets ever actually a 'thing' or are they really only Eastman's response to Hugault's art, in the same way BR's black MA-1 is a response to Gibson having 'invented it'?

There are loads of ladies fashion flight jackets out there, but the Eastman has got quality.

 

[Flightengineer]

Hi,
It was always interesting to learn more about this B-17 jacket, once time I wanted to buy it to my daughter.
The Eastman site has a photo of the original in comparison with the Eastman repro.



Also this B-17 jacket makes this guy from Belgium

https://qmi.be/type-b-17-jacket-wasp-flying-nurses.html

It's funny that I have not found a single WW2 photo of women pilots of the W.A.S.P. during the war in this jacket. Usually they pictured in A2 jackets or other, "male" flight jackets.
Maybe I was not looking carefully enough.

 

[Big J]

Hi Flightengineer
How are you doing?

Yeah, I can't find anything about this jacket except what Eastman says on their website. Nothing on the internet about originals at all, not even one picture. Every W.A.S.P. in every picture is wearing a man's flight jacket. I'd love to know the provenance of Eastman's original.

I have looked at the QMI jacket. I've never bought anything from them, but the feedback about the on the Lounge is that they are not such good products. With Eastman I know that the knits, and zipper will be good, and I'm loving that Endzone twill.

The cut of the jacket looks pretty good too. I mean, look at the pics of Monroe in Korea wearing an oversized B-15c so that she can zip it up over her chest; too long, too baggy, massive sleeve tunneling. It's not a flattering look. What's the point in being an actual pin up girl and dressing like that? My wife has the body of a pin up, I want her to look good in a jacket.

 

[Flightengineer]

Thank you, everything is fine....as usual - I am here and there , hope you are OK.
Yes, I also heard about the low quality of different jackets from QMI. I mentioned them only in the sense that they are the second after Eastman who made this jacket (maybe they made "copy" this from Eastman).
You can try to write Gary and ask a question directly about the historical roots of this jacket, but I am not sure that there will be an answer.
I agree about Monroe.
And of course, lady needs a jacket to look beautiful. However, historical accuracy is not very important in this case.
But looking at the photo on the site, I just see the B-15 with zipper "from the female side." Although perhaps it is made with regard to the female body.

 

[HPA Rep]

Greetings, Big J!

We've sold a few and I can say that they run small and women should order a size up from their normal dress size. And be prepared that these are very short in the waist, so wear with low-rise pants/jeans will expose the midriff. But this is how they should be and the detailing is what you'd expect and very authentic and high quality.

I must say that ELC is misidentifying the jacket: it's a B-17, which was genuinely for flight nurses only, not a B-16, which was for WASP aviators, and I'm surprised Gary doesn't know this. Both B-16 and B-17 jackets did indeed get issued late in WWII, but of the few produced, I'm thinking most ended up as surplus due to their very late arrival and the disbanding of the WASP program. A true B-16 WASP flying jacket is far more rare and valuable than a B-17 Flight Nurse flying jacket, but that is not to say a B-17 is common.

If you want more help, I'd need detailed body measures. Good luck and Merry Christmas!

 

[Flightengineer]

Thanks Charles, just found this thread with some pics original B-16 and B-17 jackets:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/252808-wasp-b-16-and-flight-nurse-b-15/

 

[HPA Rep]

Thanks Charles, just found this thread with some pics original B-16 and B-17 jackets:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/252808-wasp-b-16-and-flight-nurse-b-15/

Beautiful pair of rarities! Thanks for posting. The HPA archives sold its NOS examples many years ago, which now makes me question the owner's sanity - ha!

 

[Big J]

@Flightengineer, glad you're well. That's a great link! Thank you! And here's another good link;

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/231701-womens-flight-jackets/

It's easy to see that waistband knit width is one major difference between these jackets, but what are the others?
Also, scrolling down, a nice blue nylon version!

I agree, historical accuracy was taking a back seat to how good it looks in this case, but Eastman jackets are really good quality. You can see it when you put an eastman jacket next to a 'fashion' jacket.

I had no idea that there were even 2 types of issue Ladies jackets! That's brilliant! I wish they were both in production as repros.

@HPA Rep, Seasons greeting to you and yours Charles! I hope you are well.
My wife's got a good waist, but I reckon she'd want to wear some high waist pants with this; some kind of repro chinos or slacks.
It's very kind of you to offer to help out with sizing advice too. This might take a bit of guessing, and hit and miss ordering and size exchanges...
But it's the quality of the product that I like. I'd love an Endzone B-15, but having just bought a size 48 ELC G-1 in the old pattern with the scalloped pocket flaps, my wife just made me sign a contract promising not to buy any jackets for a year! It's kind of tongue in cheek, but I'm actually finding it really hard to do! Hence my interest in jackets for her.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[Deacon211]

Merry Christmas everybody!

That’s a good looking jacket. From what little I know of the subject, indeed for most of the war the female pilots were forced to wear male flight gear. What Charles said about it being a late war issue and so not widely distributed makes perfect sense. It really seemed that, as with all wars, the amount and variety of special issue gear was directly related to how long the war went on.

As my wife is retired Air Force, I had bought her a great book about the WASPs. She related to me one, likely typical, story from the war wherein a WASP delivered an aircraft to a military base and, either because she diverted or because her ride home fell through, was left stuck at this base in nothing but her flight gear. Because she did not have at least a service dress uniform (i.e. khakis) with her and because there was nowhere she was likely to find one for females in the 1940s, she was prohibited from entering any of the mess facilities on base and she went to bed hungry.

Truly this would have been the case for any aircrew that wound up at a base without a proper uniform. But it presented a few special challenges to the women pilots who couldn’t exactly buy off the rack! [emoji16]


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[Big J]

@Deacon,

Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Great comment. I think you're right.
When I woke up and first read it 3 hours ago, my hangover was crushing, and I read and instantly forgot the part where you explained your wife was reading a book about W.A.S.P.s, and instead just connected your comment about your wife serving in the USAF with the anecdote from the 1940's.

I was thinking, gee, Deacon served in the Gulf. Quite an age difference.

I'm an idiot.

Anyhow, re-reading with a clearer head, it must have been a great time to be a woman. Liberated from traditional gender stereotyped occupations by the war, women got to do all sorts of traditionally 'male' work, including flying (I guess that also came with significant opportunities for socializing given that most young able-bodied men had been drafted).
I suppose the end of the war saw a lot of that social equality being rolled back as the 'dream' of being a 1950's housewife in the burbs was rolled out. I kind of look back on that 50's 'Stepford' image with a lot of fake nostalgia, but then I'm a man. A lot of women must have had their minds opened and horizons widened, and didn't want to be put back in the kitchen. And respect to them. I guess WWII was a significant milestone in the progression of individual rights for many social groups. I've always said we won the war because our ideology was better, maybe putting women in men's jobs was one example of how?

The jackets are awesome, and being cut for a feminine figure, they're also very flattering I think. I'm really liking the blue nylon version from the 50's in the link.

 

[Deacon211]

LOL, I only LOOK 90! [emoji16]

I think you’re right about what a big social change the war was; sort of the ‘40s version of “How ya gonna keep them down on the farm, now that they’ve seen Paree”


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[Stand By]

Hi Big J,
Hoping all’s great at your end.
I bought a ELC B-15 for my gal and she’s worn it twice in 10 years. She doesn’t like how short it is on a cold day ... so time to sell it here, methinks. Sheeesh.
But the B-17 looks great to me. If only.
Cheers!

 

[Big J]

@Deacon, you must be about my age.
Not that there's anything wrong with age differences at all. I'm fortunate to have known some impressive mature ladies, admirable women every one.

BTW, you still got your eastman G-1? It's the older version with the scalloped pockets, right? I just picked one up for peanuts from some guy in Germany. I'm really pleased with it. I want it for my Bridges at Toko-Ri patches, but I'm surprised at how thick, heavy and stiff the goat is. It's by far the heaviest G-1 repro I own. In fact, only my LW has the same hide weight and thickness as my 60's G-1s.

 

[Big J]

Stand By! You dark horse! Long time, no see!
I hope that you and your gal, and pack are are all well and enjoying the festive season!

My wife is a frustrated 'tough girl' (she admires Michelle Rodriguez for kicking butt in pretty much any movie, and idolizes Demi Moore in G.I. Jane) and likes 'military look fashion' so she's always interested in my jackets, but cut of men's jackets is terrible on her, and the stuff in mainstream stores doesn't have enough accuracy to appeal to her; it looks cheap.

I was just saying to Deacon that I got a new G-1 for my Toko-Ri patches, but I really want to do something a bit special with it, so I was re-reading your jacket painting posts. I'm thinking of putting this Romain Hugault pin up on the back, but can't think of a slogan for it yet.

https://pictures.abebooks.com/1661080/30034443433.jpg

 

[Stand By]

Stand By! You dark horse! Long time, no see!
I hope that you and your gal, and pack are are all well and enjoying the festive season!

My wife is a frustrated 'tough girl' (she admires Michelle Rodriguez for kicking butt in pretty much any movie, and idolizes Demi Moore in G.I. Jane) and likes 'military look fashion' so she's always interested in my jackets, but cut of men's jackets is terrible on her, and the stuff in mainstream stores doesn't have enough accuracy to appeal to her; it looks cheap.

I was just saying to Deacon that I got a new G-1 for my Toko-Ri patches, but I really want to do something a bit special with it, so I was re-reading your jacket painting posts. I'm thinking of putting this Romain Hugault pin up on the back, but can't think of a slogan for it yet.

https://pictures.abebooks.com/1661080/30034443433.jpg

Hi Big J,
Yes, all good here, thank you, and yes, all good at home.
Last weekend I flew Toronto to Calgary for a two-hour window to pick up our latest rescue from Mexico. That was a loooong fetch! A Terrier-Dachshund puppy found getting a stomping from some guy on a street and a passing lady scooped him up and ran away with him ... the start of his rescue journey to Canada. He’s dog number 9 and he’s settling in nicely and we rescued a new Rottweiler earlier this year too. I pity the fool who ever tries to break into our house.
And no, alas, not around the bar here these days as work is full-on since we got taken over by another department 18 months ago - and it’s all work with new bosses (who I really like) and there’s even a clause in my new contract forbidding chat rooms etc, so it’s all change. I’ve never been busier!!! Like fourth gear overdrive and full choke! But I love my job in the hospital and it’s been a really successful year for me/the dept. Tiring but very rewarding. No complaints.
I hope life is good out there and you’re having a good Christmas...?

I hear you about having a gal that likes the military look - that’s mine too! I honestly thought a B-15 would be a slam-dunk of a gift... nope. Apparently it doesn’t keep her butt warm when it’s sub-zero! I never saw that one coming.

I like the art! I don’t know the artist but it’s a nice style.
I’d have to think on a title ... I think a double entendres works, like I did Playin’ Jane (Plain Jane) on my C-3.
Will muse on it over the holiday ... got to be something you’ll like for years to come, not be cheesy, corny or smutty and yet it ought to be cheeky and playful, faithful to the era... with a nod or reference to pacific carriers or torpedo bombers somehow? And nursing/sick bay? Hmmm...

 

[Big J]

Glad to hear you're all well Stand By!

9 dogs now! You must be kept pretty busy at meal times! My wife always says you can judge a person's character by how they treat animals, so you must be ok!

I spent most of Christmas morning in the garden roasting all the meat and stuff on the BBQ. To be honest, I could have done it in the kitchen, but the weather was good, my wife and kids could do whatever, and I could have a quiet drink in the garden with the dog, who sat there licking his lips the whole time and shifting his weight from foot to foot the whole time. Dogs are great.

I like Hugault's work. He's a contemporary artist, but he's got the idea I think; just the right level of cheesecake and nothing too vulgar. A lot of the famous WWII pin ups have been done to death; they are all already on jackets, mall jackets even. I'm looking for something original that won't have been done on a jacket before. I want something cute with a period feel, but I don't want something so explicit it'd cause the PTA to get the vapors if they see me out and about!

But first I have to practice. I've got some simpler art I want to put on some other jackets, so I'll practice with the techniques you've described to make sure I'm confident enough to take on an advanced project.

 

[Deacon211]

@Deacon, you must be about my age.
Not that there's anything wrong with age differences at all. I'm fortunate to have known some impressive mature ladies, admirable women every one.

BTW, you still got your eastman G-1? It's the older version with the scalloped pockets, right? I just picked one up for peanuts from some guy in Germany. I'm really pleased with it. I want it for my Bridges at Toko-Ri patches, but I'm surprised at how thick, heavy and stiff the goat is. It's by far the heaviest G-1 repro I own. In fact, only my LW has the same hide weight and thickness as my 60's G-1s.

Hey Big J,

Yes, I still have my ELC. It is indeed some tough, old goat.

I’ve often wondered how it compares to an actual period G-1 as it’s definitely different than the other repro manufacturers I’ve seen.

Still, there are some pics I’ve found that have that same crinkled look to them and mine is starting to adopt the same characteristics.

Like this borrowed pic,

Like the idea of a Toko-Ri jacket. I was about to post my favorite late era pin up, when I saw who your you were referring to in your original post!

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[Stand By]

What you’re needing in a name Big J, is something Naughtical But Nice!

Good for you for firing up the bbq! You paint a mighty fine picture in that with your pal, there. I’m sure many of us here could happily share a beer with you ...
And yes, 9. It sounds like a lot, I know, but the latest is 10lbs and three are chihuahuas and the smallest is 4lbs (she’s bigger on the inside. Her nickname is El Chapa as she’s no foo-foo Paris Hilton dog! She’s a rescue from Mexico too and knows how to go Cartel when she wants to!) so it’s more like 5.4 dogs...!

 

[Stand By]

And now we have Spike, I’m going to have to add a new small bomb tally mark to my Aero ANJ-3 in the new year!!

 

[Big J]

@Deacon,
Yeah, my Eastman seems to be a heavy, tough jacket. Should make a great daily wearer. And since the previous owner has done most of the breaking in and given it a few scrapes and scuffs, I don't feel the need to baby it.
I just finished reading Such Men as These. It's a great read. It looks at the actual guys Michener sailed with who inspired his book. A lot more Corsair and Skyraider pilots that you'd have thought, being the jet age and all. Reading that really made me want to do a Toko-ri jacket. But I don't want it to look like a straight up repro of a movie jacket, so I thought a pin up on the back would be a neat touch.
You found the guy I was talking about. His work is pretty good. I like the pic you posted; good looking dame with great curves and a winning smile. That's the spirit. And do I spot an EGA on her cap?

@Stand By,
Naughtical but nice!
That's pretty good! I might go with that!

It was 15 degrees C on Christmas morning, which is just plain weird. I was outside with a beer and a t-shirt. I didn't want to let that go to waste. Man's best friend was keeping an eye on the meat for me, it was all good. This time of year though, I have to keep an eye on the dog. In winter wild boar often come around looking for food, and they can be quite aggressive (biting off fingers and such), and the dog doesn't seem to appreciate the danger.

Your gal must be pretty understanding about your dog refuge, but this must cost you a fortune in dog food. At least you've got a big yard for them to run around in, taking 10 dogs for a walk would be a major operation.
You're gonna need a bigger jacket!