Eastman A2 versus Gibson Barnes A2

[TXFlyGuy]

Or...a comparison of G&B, Schott, US Wings, Johnson, Cockpit USA, Leather Coats Etc., just to name a few. I'm sure there are others in this "mid-level" category. And this would pretty much be an honest apples-to-apples comparison.

Both G&B and US Wings have two lines, one more traditional consumer oriented, one aimed at the high end market.

Again, Fanch is spot on with his observations.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I think the comparisons between good and bad A2's across a range of price points are legitimate and thoroughly worth doing - after all, some of us want to know why one jacket maker might cost a lot more and be so venerated compared to another. Even the cheapest, baggiest nastiest A2 knock off is trying to be the like real thing - so the comparison is irresistible.

Of the cheaper versions we've seen it asserted that the US Authentic A2 is actually a lot closer in pattern, materials and spirit than so many of the other knock offs. That's useful knowledge to have and why we have a site like this.

I'm not an A2 zealot and have never owned one and I don't like the look of the cheap A2's posted here. They look baggy and inelegant to me and I would't want to be seen in one even if no one else noticed.

Seeing the better A2's posted here has certainly shown me that a well cut one in premium materials is an attractive jacket and I can much better understand people's enthusiasm for them. Again that's what this site's all about.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Yes, my Leather Coats A-2 has received many compliments. Mostly from people who fly airplanes. Thanks!

 

[Seb Lucas]

i'm very close to buying a US Authentic version.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

i'm very close to buying a US Authentic version.

How about WPG?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Nope. The WPG is certainly a better cheaper option but I haven't seen enough good reviews.

 

[TacAirlift]

On this thread regarding comparison Eastman A-2 and G&B A-2 IMO in reality there can be really no comparison at all other than a superficial one, particularly between the G&B A-2 with chrome tanned goatskin, polyester lining & knits, and Eastman's markedly different A-2. The former is a contemporary, current military issue design and the latter is based on WW II contracts. The primary reason I mentioned my G&B Model 43 A-2 is that mine is more or less based on an A-2 from WW II with a really nice veg tanned mahogany (seal brown?) mid-weight horsehide, cotton lining, wool knits, high grade nickel zipper, and I think an inch and a half or so added to accommodate my 6’2” height and long arms.

However, the G&B Model 43 A-2 that I have appears not based on a specific WW II contract, although the spirit of what could have been a “G&B Contract” is present. To be truly accurate, I suppose that nothing should be added or subtracted from a contract pattern for a specific size, including sleeve and/or body length. Hence, at 6'2" I would be unable to wear an Eastman A-2, as detailed on their website. At any rate, A-2 hyper-accuracy is less important to me than some others on TFL, although there are certainly critical aspects of a particular A-2 that I might own that I would not want missing. I would certainly take nothing away from anyone wanting critical accuracy - to each his own.

So, I really think this thread is much ado about nothing, essentially comparing apples and oranges, even between the Eastman A-2 and G&B "historical" A-2, much less G&B's "Air Force" A-2. Perhaps a better arc would be a comparison between contracts of GW, Eastman, Aero, and BK, and which of those might be preferred over another. [huh]

Fanch,

In reviewing other posts on this forum you indicated that you were impressed with the G&B Mark 31 which you own. In this post you reference the G&B Mark 43. Is there a reason that you did not go with the G&B Mark 41 versus the 43?

Your reply is appreciated in advance.

 

[Fanch]

Fanch,

In reviewing other posts on this forum you indicated that you were impressed with the G&B Mark 31 which you own. In this post you reference the G&B Mark 43. Is there a reason that you did not go with the G&B Mark 41 versus the 43?

Your reply is appreciated in advance.

First of all allow me to preface by saying my learning curve regarding how any jacket should for has been far more horizontal than vertical. At 6'2" and ~185 lbs, my normal suit size is 44 long, so my initial G&B A-2 from a few years ago was a 44T and had the chrome goatskin with polyester lining and knits. Nothing wrong with that but too big and not quite what I wanted to keep, and I sold it.

A couple of years ago when I knew I was going to pass through San Diego, I ordered a G&B ANJ-3 in 42T and arranged to pick it up at the G&B factory. When I arrived and tried it on, it was also too big and too long in the sleeves and body as well. However, there was a Mark 31 A-2 with much nicer russet veg tanned goatskin with silk lining, wool knits, and stand collar that was also labeled 42T but fit smaller and was not as long in the body or sleeves as the ANJ-3. So, I took the Mark 31. They also had a 40T Mark 31 that the G&B staff thought might be a bit too snug for me, so I left with the 42T.

I later decided that perhaps the 40T might have actually been a better fit but didn't care for the stand collar, which I thought was tight and uncomfortable. So I returned the 42T Mark 31 and asked G&B to make me a 40T Mark 43 that has no stand collar. The Mark 31, 41, and 43 models are all detailed on G&B's website. The Mark 41 and 31 both come with a collar stand which I did not want. The ANJ-3 is now discontinued as one of the G&B reps told me the ANJ-3 was just not a good seller for them.

 

[thor]

Fanch you wear it well; very "MacArthur-esque", if I may say so.

 

[HPA Rep]

I wasn’t planning on participating in this thread but some of the conversation has drifted in a direction I find interesting, that being what value the purchaser of the jacket may assign to the jacket selection vis-à-vis the views and perceptions of the jacket as held by others. Some have expressed compliments from colleagues and/or peers toward the jacket(s) they wear, so I’m curious what value this holds for the purchaser, if any.

Speaking for myself, I cannot think of anything I own that was purchased predicated on anything other than how I felt about the item(s). I’ll admit that there have been times when my fabulous girlfriend of fifteen years has said something that may have tipped the scale in a particular direction, but such instances were not about buying what would please her and were about what made more sense while still pleasing me; I still don’t own even one pair of slip-on shoes even though she would like to see me in a pair.

I gather we must admit that an A-2 jacket is far from being vogue, so wearing one makes the wearer distinctly an individual who seems to not be affected by what the masses may think. Where I live, people have almost no sense of fashion or style, and as one local men’s retailer once said to me as we conversed about men’s clothing and the styles commonly reflected by the wearers of items made by the brands HPA represents, “You sell a look that appeals to an urban market and we’re suburban. This isn’t Soho.” That succinctly summed up what I’ve observed for the decades in which I’ve resided here, which also carries over to the nearest big city, Philadelphia, PA.

Though we’re talking about A-2 jackets in this thread, the same overall state of fashion or dressing-style philistinism isn’t much better around my parts if the conversation shifted to Japanese denim or high-end civilian leathers or magnificent shoes or even a bespoke suit. My chances of being noticed and complimented on a fine suit would be much greater than for any of the other items I mentioned, but if public approval is part of my goal in making a purchase, getting a suit from any mass-marketed discount house would work almost as well and for far less.

But my taste is high end. It’s been that way for as long as I can recall. My mind works in a certain way, fixated on detail and too often to the detriment of my wallet - anything remotely cheesy or ostentatious sends me into a whirling dervish that would make the animated Tasmanian Devil proud.:eeek:

So I’m one who is confounded by those who have spent as much customizing their motorcycles as they did on the bike itself, and yet who wear leather jackets that just vomit cheesiness and which will never look vintage even after a hundred years and gallons of vodka. And the same is true for those who own aircraft restored to exacting specs. that are even better than most planes were when first built, yet the leather on their backs is pure mall quality. Some of the jacket purchasing I reference is made out of simple ignorance of better being available, and it’s one thing if you simply cannot afford the better gear - it’s another if you can and just don’t care.

I admit what I am. But I also pass no judgment on those who fail to appreciate that which I do no matter how much it makes my own head explode; there’s a difference between failing to understand and agree with someone’s motives and allowing that to fester in your mind vs. thinking poorly of a person for these differences. And I find myself actually admiring those who could afford the best of everything and who care for none of it; they may be more liberated than I am.

So I’m curious if any of us purchase our jackets for any reasons beyond pleasing ourselves. Do any buy a brand to be among a perceived elite group on this or some other forum? Do we purchase for elite status at some group outing or get-together or reenacting event? Or do we deliberately purchase nearer the bottom end to be part of some other group that may fancy itself as being more individualistic than the groups of elitists?

Just something to chew on, I think ...

 

[tnjyoung]

No contest whatsoever...GW

+1!

 

[HPA Rep]

First of all allow me to preface by saying my learning curve regarding how any jacket should for has been far more horizontal than vertical. At 6'2" and ~185 lbs, my normal suit size is 44 long, so my initial G&B A-2 from a few years ago was a 44T and had the chrome goatskin with polyester lining and knits. Nothing wrong with that but too big and not quite what I wanted to keep, and I sold it.

A couple of years ago when I knew I was going to pass through San Diego, I ordered a G&B ANJ-3 in 42T and arranged to pick it up at the G&B factory. When I arrived and tried it on, it was also too big and too long in the sleeves and body as well. However, there was a Mark 31 A-2 with much nicer russet veg tanned goatskin with silk lining, wool knits, and stand collar that was also labeled 42T but fit smaller and was not as long in the body or sleeves as the ANJ-3. So, I took the Mark 31. They also had a 40T Mark 31 that the G&B staff thought might be a bit too snug for me, so I left with the 42T.

I later decided that perhaps the 40T might have actually been a better fit but didn't care for the stand collar, which I thought was tight and uncomfortable. So I returned the 42T Mark 31 and asked G&B to make me a 40T Mark 43 that has no stand collar. The Mark 31, 41, and 43 models are all detailed on G&B's website. The Mark 41 and 31 both come with a collar stand which I did not want. The ANJ-3 is now discontinued as one of the G&B reps told me the ANJ-3 was just not a good seller for them.

Fanch, just to be clear so I understand which jacket you are wearing, this is the 40T Mark 43 sans collar stand, right? The size 40 was definitely the way to go if this is a 40, but how much shorter was a 40R? The reason I ask is that, for my taste, while the chest and shoulders and waist area all look awesome, the body seems longish. This may be what you wanted and that's what it's all about, but an A-2 waistband actually touching the tops of the butt pockets on your jeans seems overly long to me. Just my opinion.

Thank you!

 

[HPA Rep]

On this thread regarding comparison Eastman A-2 and G&B A-2 IMO in reality there can be really no comparison at all other than a superficial one, particularly between the G&B A-2 with chrome tanned goatskin, polyester lining & knits, and Eastman's markedly different A-2. The former is a contemporary, current military issue design and the latter is based on WW II contracts. The primary reason I mentioned my G&B Model 43 A-2 is that mine is more or less based on an A-2 from WW II with a really nice veg tanned mahogany (seal brown?) mid-weight horsehide, cotton lining, wool knits, high grade nickel zipper, and I think an inch and a half or so added to accommodate my 6’2” height and long arms.

However, the G&B Model 43 A-2 that I have appears not based on a specific WW II contract, although the spirit of what could have been a “G&B Contract” is present. To be truly accurate, I suppose that nothing should be added or subtracted from a contract pattern for a specific size, including sleeve and/or body length. Hence, at 6'2" I would be unable to wear an Eastman A-2, as detailed on their website. At any rate, A-2 hyper-accuracy is less important to me than some others on TFL, although there are certainly critical aspects of a particular A-2 that I might own that I would not want missing. I would certainly take nothing away from anyone wanting critical accuracy - to each his own.

So, I really think this thread is much ado about nothing, essentially comparing apples and oranges, even between the Eastman A-2 and G&B "historical" A-2, much less G&B's "Air Force" A-2. Perhaps a better arc would be a comparison between contracts of GW, Eastman, Aero, and BK, and which of those might be preferred over another. [huh]

Fanch, I concur with everything you said. I am, however, curious about the conclusion you reached about an Eastman A-2 not being available in your size. These are available in long and extra-long fittings, but I also don't know your needs and body measures, so could you please expand just a bit more on this? Thank you!

 

[tnjyoung]

I wasn’t planning on participating in this thread but some of the conversation has drifted in a direction I find interesting, that being what value the purchaser of the jacket may assign to the jacket selection vis-à-vis the views and perceptions of the jacket as held by others. Some have expressed compliments from colleagues and/or peers toward the jacket(s) they wear, so I’m curious what value this holds for the purchaser, if any.

Speaking for myself, I cannot think of anything I own that was purchased predicated on anything other than how I felt about the item(s). I’ll admit that there have been times when my fabulous girlfriend of fifteen years has said something that may have tipped the scale in a particular direction, but such instances were not about buying what would please her and were about what made more sense while still pleasing me; I still don’t own even one pair of slip-on shoes even though she would like to see me in a pair.

I gather we must admit that an A-2 jacket is far from being vogue, so wearing one makes the wearer distinctly an individual who seems to not be affected by what the masses may think. Where I live, people have almost no sense of fashion or style, and as one local men’s retailer once said to me as we conversed about men’s clothing and the styles commonly reflected by the wearers of items made by the brands HPA represents, “You sell a look that appeals to an urban market and we’re suburban. This isn’t Soho.” That succinctly summed up what I’ve observed for the decades in which I’ve resided here, which also carries over to the nearest big city, Philadelphia, PA.

Though we’re talking about A-2 jackets in this thread, the same overall state of fashion or dressing-style philistinism isn’t much better around my parts if the conversation shifted to Japanese denim or high-end civilian leathers or magnificent shoes or even a bespoke suit. My chances of being noticed and complimented on a fine suit would be much greater than for any of the other items I mentioned, but if public approval is part of my goal in making a purchase, getting a suit from any mass-marketed discount house would work almost as well and for far less.

But my taste is high end. It’s been that way for as long as I can recall. My mind works in a certain way, fixated on detail and too often to the detriment of my wallet - anything remotely cheesy or ostentatious sends me into a whirling dervish that would make the animated Tasmanian Devil proud.:eeek:

So I’m one who is confounded by those who have spent as much customizing their motorcycles as they did on the bike itself and yet who wear leather jackets that just vomit cheesiness and which will never look vintage even after a hundred years and gallons of vodka. And the same is true for those who own aircraft restored to exacting specs. that are even better than most planes were when first built, yet the leather on their backs is pure mall quality. Some of the jacket purchasing I reference is made out of simple ignorance of better being available, and it’s one thing if you simply cannot afford the better gear - it’s another if you can and just don’t care.

I admit what I am. But I also pass no judgment on those who fail to appreciate that which I do no matter how much it makes my own head explode; there’s a difference between failing to understand and agree with someone’s motives and allowing that to fester in your mind vs. thinking poorly of a person for these differences. And I find myself actually admiring those who could afford the best of everything and who care for none of it; they may be more liberated than I am.

So I’m curious if any of us purchase our jackets for any reasons beyond pleasing ourselves. Do any buy a brand to be among a perceived elite group on this or some other forum? Do we purchase for elite status at some group outing or get-together or reenacting event? Or do we deliberately purchase nearer the bottom end to be part of some other group that may fancy itself as being more individualistic than the groups of elitists?

Just something to chew on, I think ...

Interesting. I too, find myself with "high end" taste. I have been this way since primary school. It began with Ralph Lauren or Izod (with the alligator) Polo shirts, Swatch watches, Levi's jeans, Reebok sneakers, etc. While these are far from "high-end", at the time (in the early 1980s) and at that age, these represented quality alternatives to the "norm". I'm particularly drawn to hand crafted or artisan-type goods. If I know something has been "hand-hewn from a block of wood that has been buried for 6k years, unearthed by an ancient tribe, lost for another 200 years, found by a virgin under a waterfall at the base of a diamond mine...", (you get the picture), then I'm hooked.

Occasionally it wears on me. When it does, I find myself wanting to go cheap on everything. I just want to become "okay with average". Sadly this doesn't last long. Before I know it I step into a high-end boutique, flip through a magazine on a flight, see something in a movie, or read something in a book that has me seeking out "the best". Most of the time I can't come close to affording it.

Honestly, I really should be ashamed. First-world problems...

 

[Fanch]

Fanch, just to be clear so I understand which jacket you are wearing, this is the 40T Mark 43 sans collar stand, right? The size 40 was definitely the way to go if this is a 40, but how much shorter was a 40R? The reason I ask is that, for my taste, while the chest and shoulders and waist area all look awesome, the body seems longish. This may be what you wanted and that's what it's all about, but an A-2 waistband actually touching the tops of the butt pockets on your jeans seems overly long to me. Just my opinion.

Thank you!

Charles, I sincerely appreciate your input. Perhaps the essential difference between us is that unlike you, I do own one pair of slip-ons which I wear no more than 1-2 times a year. When I looked at the Eastman website and also heard from others, I perceived that Eastman did not make long sizes. So, I stand corrected on that and appreciate your making TFL members aware that Eastman does, in fact, make long sizes.

You are also correct when you say that my G&B Model 43 A-2 appears too long in the body. I have a short torso in relation to my 6'2" height and am all arms and legs. The primary reason that I need to wear a long (tall) A-2 is that I need the additional sleeve length. My personal phobia is a "stork arms" feeling/appearance. I did try on a G&B size 40 "historical" A-2 while I was at the factory and found the body length was good but the sleeves too short for my taste. Either rob Peter to pay Paul, or the other way around. [huh]

Below is an older Aero Bronco A-2 that is several years old that is probably a better fit for me than the G&B:


As I said earlier, perhaps a comparative analysis between Eastman, GW, Aero, and BK might have been preferable. Thanks again for making us aware that Eastman is available in long sizes.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

I admit what I am. But I also pass no judgment on those who fail to appreciate that which I do no matter how much it makes my own head explode; there’s a difference between failing to understand and agree with someone’s motives and allowing that to fester in your mind vs. thinking poorly of a person for these differences. And I find myself actually admiring those who could afford the best of everything and who care for none of it; they may be more liberated than I am.

So I’m curious if any of us purchase our jackets for any reasons beyond pleasing ourselves. Do any buy a brand to be among a perceived elite group on this or some other forum? Do we purchase for elite status at some group outing or get-together or reenacting event? Or do we deliberately purchase nearer the bottom end to be part of some other group that may fancy itself as being more individualistic than the groups of elitists?

Just something to chew on, I think ...

My least expensive A2 was purchased as an experimental jacket, something that I could "patch up " and not lose any sleep over ruining the jacket.

My G&B is my dress A2, and often wear it with a dress shirt and tie, even during warm weather.

These were bought to have fun with, nothing more. But my close circle of friends are all pilots, mostly for major airlines. Plus some Test Pilots for aircraft manufacturing companies. They all appreciate A2's and G1's no matter what the price is. The only complaint from them is that I got them started...

This forum is a fairly good resource, like most forums are.

 

[pak]

What is the weight of the G&B WW2 model A2 in the veg tanned goat? I'm also a 42R

 

[Fanch]

What is the weight of the G&B WW2 model A2 in the veg tanned goat? I'm also a 42R

Might need to pose that question to G&B. I haven't the foggiest. [huh]

 

[HPA Rep]

Charles, I sincerely appreciate your input. Perhaps the essential difference between us is that unlike you, I do own one pair of slip-ons which I wear no more than 1-2 times a year. When I looked at the Eastman website and also heard from others, I perceived that Eastman did not make long sizes. So, I stand corrected on that and appreciate your making TFL members aware that Eastman does, in fact, make long sizes.

You are also correct when you say that my G&B Model 43 A-2 appears too long in the body. I have a short torso in relation to my 6'2" height and am all arms and legs. The primary reason that I need to wear a long (tall) A-2 is that I need the additional sleeve length. My personal phobia is a "stork arms" feeling/appearance. I did try on a G&B size 40 "historical" A-2 while I was at the factory and found the body length was good but the sleeves too short for my taste. Either rob Peter to pay Paul, or the other way around. [huh]

Below is an older Aero Bronco A-2 that is several years old that is probably a better fit for me than the G&B:

As I said earlier, perhaps a comparative analysis between Eastman, GW, Aero, and BK might have been preferable. Thanks again for making us aware that Eastman is available in long sizes.

Thank you for posting this A-2 fit image, Fanch. This one, in my opinion, is a much better fit than the G & B, being just the right length in sleeve length and body length while accommodating your chest and shoulders nicely.

I had a feeling you had long legs when I first looked at you in the G & B A-2 and you said it was a long, because the sleeve length was good, while the body length longish; this or the reverse is something I've encountered with customers many, many times over the years. I gather G & B are similar to Eastman and do not offer adjustments to size, thus it's a long, extra long or a regular; otherwise, I'd suppose you'd have opted for a shorter body length.

I continue to find it interesting that there are those who want supreme authenticity and yet want a size other than a regular, when the original A-2 jacket was only produced in regular fittings. I'm not passing judgment on these individuals and I do understand there's a difference between paying for a jacket and being issued one, but I still find it a curiosity since it technically runs against the grain in endeavors for maximum authenticity. It's a bit like buying a hyper-accurate copy of a WWII jeep and wanting air conditioning or power steering and brakes because such features make it more comfortable or drivable. Kinda takes away from the authentic experience and look in my mind.

 

[pak]

HPA, I agree with your last paragraph. My A2 fits well in the shoulders but is a tad long for my frame. I just wear it the way it is.