Durable cotton t-shirts to pair with leather jackets

[SimonR]

I wear white T shirts most of the time ..... would love to find a reasonably priced tube one that has a good neck seam that doesn't stretch and a decent weight ...

Till then I get these and TBH they wash very well and apart from the odd side seam twist sorted when ironing they are a good weight and fit (slight amount of shrinkage on first wash)

Note - get them from the workwear site not the fashion site ... well worth trying

https://www.dickiesworkwear.com/uk/dickies-plain-t-shirt-sh34225

 

[Edward]

@Edward,
Good question. The last time I looked, they were both manufacturing in China (hence the low prices). And you're right about quality and China.
It's interesting that ring spun 100% cotton shirts can be made and sold in packs of three for 10 bucks in China, and yet in the rest of the world this is some kind of retro-vintage 'lost technology' that justifies crazy prices.
Marketing at it finest combined with myopic worldview that doesn't understand how China is coming along? I don't know.

I think it's a mix of that (often political prejudice - the "backward Communists" angle) and the direct political factor that some folks feel unable to support Chyinese businesses because of the state. (Not an easy stand to take if you're going to go hardore on it, given how many aspects of manufacturing are now almost exclusively Chinese). You're right it's marketing, though. If Wrangler, for instance, caught on to the vintage thing with their Cowboy Cut denims (not officially sold in the EU that I can find, I imported mine from the US), they could be charging a lot more. I've owned Prison Blues, nice jeans, also non-selvedge, American denim (and made in America as wel, WRanglers now being manufactureed from Ameriocan denim in Mexico) - a newish company, selling to the retro market at a higher price, whereas my Wranglers are made by the same company, unchanged since 1947, and.... well cheap. Marketing and promotion are a huge part of perceived value, I believe.

I own an Iron Heart IHT1600, a very heavy durable T in my opinion. It is possibley the most ridiculous item of clothing I own though, it's so thick it's completely useless as a Tshirt in warm weather and so I think it'll probably out last me.

Motolegends do a HD T, I think they camm it a T-sweat or similar, basically a short-sleeved sweatshirt. I was going to try one but they stopped doing plain, and I no longer care for printed t-shirts. I had the same concern, though, that they would be too warm for intended purpose, and too cold on the arms in colder weather.

Over here in the UK I mainly use John Lewis who sell decent (own brand) T shirts from £10.00 to £20.00..their ivory (off white) fitted T's with short sleeves are hard wearing, wash well, keep their shape & remind me of early US military T's.

SAinsburys are prtetty good too - supposed to be fairly traded cotton, at that.

They still make some nice stuff, which may surprise everyone- I bought a lovely western shirt there a year ago. Great fabric, perfect athletic cut, and a good price. But most of their offerings are dismal- couldn’t even find an acceptable sweatshirt, and their old sweatshirts were absolutely top notch.

Somewhere I have a nice A&F silk tie, which still makes me laugh. I'd have worn it to the Chap protest against A&F encroaching on Savile Row if I'd had it to hand at the time.

@Edward I like those non stock striped ones. Have you seen the Devium Warhol Shirts? Much thicker than normal t-shirts:
https://deviumusa.com/collections/shirts/products/warhol-hemp-knit-pocket-tee

Not seen those before - look nice.

It'd be interesting to know the minimum and maximum people happily spend on new things (minimums, especially). If I buy formal shoes, I'll tend toward Loakes prices (and might well not buy cheaper) but wouldn't go much higher than that range.

I think we had a thread on this line a few months back. I think what it comes down to is a lot of us don't have the money to go high end everything, so we tend to buy cheaper on the things that we can get what we want from the mainstream to have the money to buy things we can't easily get elsewhere. A big part of what we pay out for when we want cool vintage repop as much as quality is actual period design, from a small company (smaller production runs are more costly), and the cost of first-world labour; these all push it up. Money no object, I'd be high end everything, but alas living on an academic salary with the increasingly likelihood that UUK are gonig to cheat us out of the pensions we've paid into for decades....

But I do see some virtue in paying more for ethically made or locally produced items - if this can be establish properly established.

I think we're going to see a lot more emphasis on localism as environmental factors become increasingly crucial.

Another point though is who wears these t-shirts?
Is there a class of people out there so far removed from good tailoring that the height of sartorial luxury for them is a $100 t-shirt? How many people can actually spot a $100 t-shirt on the street and appreciate it as such? And how many people would just say 'that guy always wears jeans and a t-shirt'?

When I go somewhere nice with my wife I wear a white collared shirt and a lounge suit because people 'understand' that's smart even though
it's all off the peg and not expensive.

If you're from the wrong side of the tracks and have never seen quality, then I understand why you might think of 'luxury' t-shirts as a 'thing', but given that we're not that deprived, I find it a little strange.

...

Another thought is that in the same way morning suits and dinner jackets used to be every day attire for a certain class of men, but now are the 'special event' super formal clothes of the masses, is the same thing happening with t-shirts? Upper class social strata underwear being elevated to 'special status' but the working class?

While I keep thinking that the trend has to reverse at some point, even simply because the fashion business feeds on the novel, it is true that across the last century and more the direction of travel has been ever-increasing casualisation. We live in an era, remember, in which the likes of GQ and Esquier openly and sincerely speak of "dress jeans". In that context, there will always be people who have money enough they could have Huntsman make their underpants, and yet they will only be interested in the 'designer t shirt and jeans'. A mix of the casualised world, and the still-strong, baby-boomer attitude, raised to an apex by tech industry figures like Zuckerberg, that to have "made it" means you get to dress how youl ike, always wear jeans, not a suit and tiel ike "the squares". (The irony beingthat since at least the early 90s iot has been far more rebellious to wear a suit than jeans....).

And one final thought (again, trigger warning in effect), in exactly the same way that Good Wear A-2s are too good to be genuine wartime A-2 reproductions, but rather the 'concours' version of what could have been possible if there wasn't actually a war going on, do $100 t-shirts represent some imaginary reality that never existed until now, when someone cared enough to pay what I cost to make it?

Plausibly. Of course, these days part of the price also has to include the fact that there isn't the economy of scale, that you're dealing with what have become very specialist crafts in the 'first world' rather than the mass-manufacturing they once were, which will always impact the price.

Under a dark blue suit

I remember thinking I was Joe Cool donig that back in 1989. These days, I require at least a polo shirt under my suit - collar over the lapels, natch.

 

[Big J]

@DWTH, a T-shirt with a pit to pit of 20 inches? That's like a size 36 or 38 right? I don't think anyone bulk buying pizza and potato chips at Costco is that small.

 

[Rich22]

Sizing on premium retro workwear t-shirts is harder for me to get right than on bargain t-shirts. To get a t-shirt long enough for my torso I'd often end up with 25 inch pit to pit (this bit isn't too bad, I need 24"), shoulders that are too wide, low arm holes, extra long sleeves that are loose, and to top it off a 25 inch opening... What sort of shape were folks in the 1950's?

 

[Monitor]

@Big J

This is nice but looks warm af. It looks like a sweater!

 

[Rich22]

I have no problems wearing any but my very heaviest t-shirts in Asian summers- and we're talking 40 degrees celsius!

 

[Mich486]

Sizing on premium retro workwear t-shirts is harder for me to get right than on bargain t-shirts. To get a t-shirt long enough for my torso I'd often end up with 25 inch pit to pit (this bit isn't too bad, I need 24"), shoulders that are too wide, low arm holes, extra long sleeves that are loose, and to top it off a 25 inch opening... What sort of shape were folks in the 1950's?

What shape are you man?! shouldn’t be too difficult to fit in any t-shirt really


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rich22]

What shape are you man?! shouldn’t be too difficult to fit in any t-shirt really


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

46" chest, 35" waist, long torso.

I'm fine with t-shirts that flatter my physique- I don't want a boxy shapeless thing with a 50" circumference around my waist. Why go to the gym all the time only to wear a sack? 24" pit to pit, with a 23" opening is fine. High arm holes and relatively tight, shortish sleeves work well, and of course I need a decent bit of length to avoid the crop top look.

 

[Superfluous]

This is nice but looks warm af. It looks like a sweater!

The photo is deceptive. The weave looks thicker when magnified. The t-shirts are actually a medium weight and quite wearable.

Interesting to see that many here favor white t-shirts under leather jackets and even as a top layer. Prior to the clarification, I completely misunderstood and assumed the discussion was about colored and striped t-shirts. White t-shirts have certainly played an important role as a front line clothing article, including for some of the most iconic film portrayals. That said, I personally do not like the look.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

But I do see some virtue in paying more for ethically made or locally produced items - if this can be establish properly established.

I meant to come back to this. This is why I have such great respect for Patagonia. There are plenty of customer service reasons to buy Patagonia, but a prime reason their clothing can be much more expensive is their exhaustive ethical lengths. Paying their workers and farmers. Soil health. Developing new fabrics, new dying techniques, new manufacturing processes, and the list goes on in an attempt to lessen their footprint and the footprint of their customers. If you read about the textile industry, you quickly realize every facet is a nastiness that could use an ethical overhaul. Unfortunately, when you care about any of this, the yuppie label is quickly affixed. It's certainly a luxury to care...but then again, it isn't. The world is screwed up. blah blah blah. Who's willing to pay for a different one? Chouinard is a grumpy old man, but he's anything but traditional.

 

[JMax]

I meant to come back to this. This is why I have such great respect for Patagonia. There are plenty of customer service reasons to buy Patagonia, but a prime reason their clothing can be much more expensive is their exhaustive ethical lengths. Paying their workers and farmers. Soil health. Developing new fabrics, new dying techniques, new manufacturing processes, and the list goes on in an attempt to lessen their footprint and the footprint of their customers. If you read about the textile industry, you quickly realize every facet is a nastiness that could use an ethical overhaul. Unfortunately, when you care about any of this, the yuppie label is quickly affixed. It's certainly a luxury to care...but then again, it isn't. The world is screwed up. blah blah blah. Who's willing to pay for a different one? Chouinard is a grumpy old man, but he's anything but traditional.

Wasn't Patagonia's supply chain infested with human trafficking and other crimes just a few years back? I recall it was a big deal.

I have found that "ethical" companies subcontract and/or purchase material from criminal and/or less than ethical companies at the same rate as "non-ethical"companies. This goes for all of them, rather than spending money on due diligence investigations, a robust internal audit schedule and other security measures they rely on marketing to nurture an image, or they truly and simply do not give a rat's a$$.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Wasn't Patagonia's supply chain infested with human trafficking and other crimes just a few years back? I recall it was a big deal.

I have found that "ethical" companies subcontract and/or purchase material from criminal and/or less than ethical companies at the same rate as "non-ethical"companies. This goes for all of them, rather than spending money on due diligence investigations, a robust internal audit schedule and other security measures they rely on marketing to nurture an image, or they truly and simply do not give a rat's a$$.

I'm not familiar with Patagonia, but even if this is true this doesn't mean the quest to find ethically made clothing should be abandoned. Market demand can change corporate behavior. Changes come incrementally and even a modest improvement in this area is worth pursuing and building on.

 

[JMax]

I'm not familiar with Patagonia, but even if this is true this doesn't mean the quest to find ethically made clothing should be abandoned. Market demand can change corporate behavior. Changes come incrementally and even a modest improvement in this area is worth pursuing and building on.

I agree 100 percent. I just think that the portion of the market that actually cares blindly accepts the word of company executives and their marketing departments or firms. The market needs to dig deep into corporate claims and actual practices to force that change, not sure that it does.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

Wasn't Patagonia's supply chain infested with human trafficking and other crimes just a few years back? I recall it was a big deal.

you could look at this a few ways. I see it as a constant attempt, through internal auditing etc, that they want to do the right thing, and when they find it, they attempt to remedy it. As you said, due diligence, and this sounds like exactly that. It's a problem. As the article states, in the textile industry, a particularly difficult one to avoid at every stage. I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and that goes for most instances, not only for this particular one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...a-labor-clothing-factory-exploitation/394658/

I have found that "ethical" companies subcontract and/or purchase material from criminal and/or less than ethical companies at the same rate as "non-ethical"companies.

That's quite an assertion. One that I don't buy for a moment. It's also an absolutist philosophy that I feel solves nothing and that ultimately fosters complacency and dogma to do nothing about anything.

 

[JMax]

you could look at this a few ways. I see it as a constant attempt, through internal auditing etc, that they want to do the right thing, and when they find it, they attempt to remedy it. As you said, due diligence, and this sounds like exactly that. It's a problem. As the article states, in the textile industry, a particularly difficult one to avoid at every stage. I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and that goes for most instances, not only for this particular one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...a-labor-clothing-factory-exploitation/394658/


That's quite an assertion. One that I don't buy for a moment. It's also an absolutist philosophy that I feel solves nothing and that ultimately fosters complacency and dogma to do nothing about anything.

Buy what you want. This isn't a philosophy to me, I go out and fix major security problems for companies. Quite a few of my firm's clients are major clothing companies, much larger than Patagonia.

That article tells me that the audits were few and far between and no due diligence investigation was conducted on the Taiwanese subcontractors in question. Investigations in Taiwan are very expensive. Shockingly so due to their privacy laws. Imagine that, Patagonia passed on them.

BTW, I love Patagonia lol. Crucial for when I lived in Denver.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Are we talking about Patagonia the packer wear place?

 

[Sloan1874]

We live in an era, remember, in which the likes of GQ and Esquier openly and sincerely speak of "dress jeans". In that context, there will always be people who have money enough they could have Huntsman make their underpants, and yet they will only be interested in the 'designer t shirt and jeans'. A mix of the casualised world, and the still-strong, baby-boomer attitude, raised to an apex by tech industry figures like Zuckerberg, that to have "made it" means you get to dress how youl ike, always wear jeans, not a suit and tiel ike "the squares". (The irony beingthat since at least the early 90s iot has been far more rebellious to wear a suit than jeans....)..

Nothing wrong with throwing a mind-melting amount of money at Huntsman. At least, that's what I keep telling myself...

 

[Big J]

@Ernest, Seb, yes, ethically produced. If someone showed me a decent quality heavy white cotton T-shirt that was ethically produced (no child labor, no bleaches in the water table- or something), then yes, I could be persuaded that it's a 100$ shirt.

@Sloan, Edward, re: GQ & Esquire 'dress jeans'.
I've been LOLZing so hard I almost p'd myself! And I know, it is a 'thing', but the fact that these two publications essentially serve as marketing propaganda for the masses should instantly make anything they say discountable. What's funnier than the concept of 'dress jeans' (please! Make it stop! LOLZ) is the fact that people actually believe that as a regular Joe (and not 'the company owner' or Hollywood celebrity) they could actually go anywhere relatively formal in them is hilarious! Try getting seated at your table in the Savoy Grill in 'dress jeans' and find out just how much a fabrication the concept is then.
I'm still laughing.
Jeans and T-shirts can look good, but they will always be casual clothes only; one step above shorts and no shirt.

I quite like Huntsman's slippers. They'd do my Leslie Phillips pj's and robe ensemble a nice touch.

 

[Sloan1874]

Honestly, a visit to Huntsman is something every discerning man should treat themselves to.

 

[Big J]

@Sloan, I'm sure they'll spot me for what I am the minute I walk through the door rather than mistaking me for a gentleman, but next time I'm in the U.K. I do hope they'll let me have some of their slippers so I can have a taste of the good life.

'Dress jeans'! He he he he!