Driving golden era cars in the modern era

[Linda Clark Bales]

Last summer, the A's-R-Us Ford club did a run of the Dixie Highway thru eastern Illinois. A tv show called Heartland Highways talked to a few of the drivers, who said that only one car had dropped out due to mechanical problems. Not bad for cars approaching, or over, 80yo! That says something about the simplicity, fixability and strong supply lines of the A.

It was a neat event because each town along the route planned events and shared some of their history with the club. One driver said that it was particularly pleasant not to ever have to exceed 40mph. AIUI, the A was always a chore to drive past 40 for any length of time.

The Dixie Highway is interesting in itself as a mid-'teens attempt to get Chicagoans to motor to, and buy land in, Florida (not a migration pattern historians pay any attention to - I don't know if it was successful). The brains behind it was Carl Fisher, who had built the Indianapolis Speedway a few years before.

Nice car...am member of Wichita A's hope to have one someday

 

[Bourne ID]

Still workin on the plymouth, she was supposed to be back on the road for spring but if you've ever pulled a classic car into the shop for a "little" work then you know what the rest of the story is! You know how the line goes......" Since we've allready got this part off and outa the way, now would be a good time to....!" Besides all that I think my buddy Ian is loosing interest or his business, not sure which but the project is dragging way beyond the time frame we originally laid out and there is still so much to do. Anyway..since he's got so much unfinished with the motor swap and wirring, I thought I'd grab all the front body panels, lean them up and lay down a fresh coat of POR15. Spent a few evenings last week doing just that and here's a few pics.

 

[BoPeep]

Don't give up hope yet! We're not quite into car show season. lol Are you scraping off underbody on those front fenders?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Ahh, the fun of the vintage cars sitting for the winter is upon us. Fired up the old Buick to get her out of the woods. Saw a little steam under the hood and popped it up and it was like old faithful. Long story short, bad water pump. Bought a new one, pulled the old one, the new one is wrong. Went back to AutoZone and they were kind enough to make it right and sent me home with a discount and an extra 20 bucks in my pocket because their mistake was so far off.

 

[Bourne ID]

Don't give up hope yet! We're not quite into car show season. lol Are you scraping off underbody on those front fenders?

Yep! Cleaning off the old ruberized undercoating. It seems to have held on pretty good to the fenders but when I cleaned up the inner wheel well panels there wasn't much holding the undercoating on anymore. I'd say 90 % of the surface area was covered in rust and only 10 % was still protected by the undercoating! The old stuff just seems to pop loose and crack allowing moisture in between and the rust goes unseen.

 

[David Conwill]

Ahh, the fun of the vintage cars sitting for the winter is upon us.

Whose vintage car sat for the winter? Mine was out and about in the salty slush.

Okay, the Camaro was safely entombed in my FIL's barn and should re-emerge soon.

-Dave

 

[BoPeep]

Whose vintage car sat for the winter?

-Dave

lol We had ours out in February! And my husband has a standing rule that it will be on the road for his birthday (Mar 31st) regardless of which winter project it was subject to.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Living in the old Salt Belt, my vintage cars never see winter.

Whose vintage car sat for the winter? Mine was out and about in the salty slush.

Okay, the Camaro was safely entombed in my FIL's barn and should re-emerge soon.

-Dave

 

[David Conwill]

Living in the old Salt Belt, my vintage cars never see winter.

Sadly, it looks like Michigan uses more than Wisconsin:

Glad I don't live in Massachusetts!

-Dave

 

[John in Covina]

Ahh, the fun of the vintage cars sitting for the winter is upon us. Fired up the old Buick to get her out of the woods. Saw a little steam under the hood and popped it up and it was like old faithful. Long story short, bad water pump. Bought a new one, pulled the old one, the new one is wrong. Went back to AutoZone and they were kind enough to make it right and sent me home with a discount and an extra 20 bucks in my pocket because their mistake was so far off.

As someone that has worked in the auto parts industry I'd usually say if you can bring in the old part to compare, it will help eliminate bringing home the wrong part. BUT Never turn over any parts such as a core exchange until you are absolutely satisfied that the replacement is correct and working well.

Many parts on old cars have casting marks and numbers or stamped in numbers that can help a counterman or company get the right part. Another is to get the information from the engine such as block number that can help too. If an engine swap has been done prior to your purchase you may be assuming the engine is from the same year or right size and be wrong. (I can't tell you how many times the owner had given the wrong info so the look up was wrong.)

If you have problems finding parts for an old car and your local parts place has to order everything because they aren't vintage specialists then you are better off finding a vintage parts place with people in the Know. Get a copy of Hemmings Motor News as they list a lot of the parts places for vintage. My friends at Egge Machine carry a lot and what they don't have they can usually direct you to someone that does.

Taking a couple of digital pictures with various views can help the counterman or you can email it to the place. Marks and numbers can help too.

 

[Stearmen]

Becoming One With The Auto

Ah yes, if you don't have your DNA in your vehicle, you just aren't a part of it!

 

[David Conwill]

As someone that has worked in the auto parts industry...

John makes some excellent points. A lot can change on a vehicle in two or three (or more!) decades - either out of necessity, or in the nature of attempted improvement. I make it a point to figure out the original application for all the parts on my cars, so when I need to deal with chain-store counterboys, I don’t have to give them more information than necessary.

For example, I recently needed a carburetor kit for the carburetor that’s going on my Falcon, but I looked up the numbers and discovered that the carburetor I’m using originally came on a 1969 Ford F-100 with a 240ci six-cylinder engine. I went into the store, asked for my kit by its application, and walked away with the part I needed, no trouble at all.

It is funny, though, that sometimes me getting the part will result in an exchange like this:

Counterguy: My grandpa had a ‘69 F-100, it was a good truck.
Me: That’s cool, but I just have the carburetor.
Counterguy: Huh?
Me: It’s going on my Falcon.
Counterguy: Oh...

Of course, if you drive something truly old (like 6V era), you probably won’t get much in the way of parts locally anyway.

-Dave

 

[John in Covina]

I have personally walked many an idjut through the process. The phone call goes something like this:

Idjut: You guys are all f-ed up I got the wrong pump! (He is usually slurring over a mouth full of chewing tobacco.)
Me: What part number did you order & what is the application?
I: Huh?
Me: What is the part number on the box?
I: 130-1320
Me: What is the vehicle you're putting it on?
I:1971 Chevy Bel Air 350 V8
Me: Well the part number is right for that application.
I: It's too short, the pulleys don't line up.
ME: Has the engine ever been changed out?
I: My friend put in a 1983 350 out of a pickup, I bought the car from him.
ME: So you asked for the water pump for a 1971 350 and expect it to fit a 1983 350?
I: Sure they's all the same.
ME: I see, they're all the same. The reason why this one is wrong is because the 1983 in a pick up takes a 130-1620. Putting a 1983 350 into a 1971 doesn't make it a 1971. Please remember when you order parts for the car to tell them the engine is a 1983 pickup engine it can make a difference just like what we see happened here.
Idjut: Oh.

People do this all the time. In vintage cars, the vehicle may have changed hands a number of times so that the owner you got it from has no clue what is actually in his vehicle, so if you buy a old car you need to treat it like a detective story and get all of the facts before you order parts.

I had a guy put in a reman distrbutor in a Honda and it wasn't right. It turned out the engine was one of those gently used Japanese engines. the one he got was one that wasn't brought into the US and the distributor was different. Bad part was he had exchanged the old distributor core when he picked up the reman one. That distributor was gone and no way to find it at the factory. Don't know if they were ever able to find out what distributor he needed since we don't have the look-up info the the ones in Japan. I told him to get the block number and all markings on the engine and take it to Honda, maybe they could contact japan and get it from there.

Sorry for the ramble but the problem of getting the wrong part can originate with the car, the owner and the parts distributor. I had to stop one company from superseding 2 Ford pumps to the later number. One was standard rotation and the other was reverse rotation and the impellers don't always work backwards.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

John, I know what you're saying. I deal with these problems, as a customer. I needed a thermostat for my Buick and I had to explain that there was an X and Y block in 1979 for the 350 and the guy insisted they were the same. I ended up coming back with the one off the car and showed him that they were in fact NOT the same. To which I received an, "Oh, sorry"

 

[John in Covina]

John, I know what you're saying. I deal with these problems, as a customer. I needed a thermostat for my Buick and I had to explain that there was an X and Y block in 1979 for the 350 and the guy insisted they were the same. I ended up coming back with the one off the car and showed him that they were in fact NOT the same. To which I received an, "Oh, sorry"

There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

The manufacturer may have cataloged it correctly but the counterman does not notice the details such as the Y or X block notation. The information in the printed catalog may not have been translated into their computer look up correctly. The best look up in electronic cataloging has prompting that makes the counterman ask the right questions. And sometimes the manufacturer has gotten the info wrong like my friends that wanted to combine the 2 water pumps under one number, they assumed something without checking it out. Also there can be mis-keyed information during the data entry. People reverse numbers 69 becomes 96 and so on, it all can happen. Hey even the guys that pack the parts can put the wrong part number label on the box.

One bad one is there is a small year range where Ford Pickups and Vans have the same 300ci engine but the water pumps are slightly different. The thickness of the mounting boss where the bolts go through the pump to bolt to the engine are different thicker versus thinner but other than that the pumps are the same. If some idjut orders the pickup pump for the van because he assumes it is the same, they get the thin boss not the thick one and when installing it they put the bolt through the engine and into the number one cylinder! Even though we correctly cataloged the information counterman would look up the van under the pick up listings instead of the van. I had to create a special instructions sheet for the 2 pumps showing the differences and telling installers to check first just because of that very troublesome assumption by the countermen.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Well, this is the thing. I know how to work the computers at Auto Zone, I'm friends with the manager and just ask to use them if I need a part, but he wasn't in. I showed the guy, click on 'X' block. It's different, and it was, but the clerk insisted that all thermostats in 1979 Buicks were the same. He knew because he had a 3.8 LeSabre one time....

 

[John in Covina]

Save us from the experts.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Truer words were never spoken.

Save us from the experts.

 

[John in Covina]

It is a constant dilemma for manufacturers and distributors of auto parts when a counterman does a half-fast job looking up a part. Then the tech service guy then has to go through everything only to find that the counterman did not bother to ask a question like does it have factory air conditioning.

My favorite was the number of calls on an Izusu Rodeo water pump.
Idjut: Man you guys are all screwed up, I got the wrong pump. It doesn't look like the one on my truck!
Me: What kind of truck do you have?
Idjut:19XX Isuzu Rodeo
Me ok the part number is a 150-1800
Idjut: That is the part number on the box but it is wrong.
Me: Ok the Rodeo has a water pump that is inside the timing cover and is driven by the timing belt.
Idjut: No it doesn't It's right out in front of the engine and is driven by the fan belt.
ME: That is an Idler pulley, if you look at it carefully you'll notice that there are not places for the coolant to go through it to circulate the water.
Idjut" no your wrong.
Me I can send you a picture of the cooling system diagram as published by Isuzu. It shows the idler outside on the fan belt system and the water pump in side driven by the timing belt.
Idjut: That can't be right!
Me: I am looking at the diagram right now, I can sent it as an attachment to an email if you want me to send it to you.

In the end the guy admits he is thinking the idler was the water pump and is perturbed because now he has to buy the timing belt too.

 

[LocktownDog]

'52 Pontiac Chieftain - All original (including its 78k mileage).

The pawn shop its sitting at bought it from a girl who found it in a garage she inherited. They think it was sitting in storage for 30+ years. Its dirty and dusty, cracked upholstery too. But it starts right up. They have a tag on it for $5,000. If they came down to $2,000, I'd be tempted to pull the trigger.