Dressing Up for Eating Out - WSJ article

[Richard Warren]

The story about Reynolds is ambiguous. I personally have always recoiled at the thought of wearing a "loaner" jacket or tie. The idea of an establishment setting a dress code is itself questionable.

 

[skyvue]

The idea of an establishment setting a dress code is itself questionable.

And I'm of the opinion say that patronizing an establishment that has a dress code while dressed casually is questionable. There are many dining options available to those who prefer to dress casually.

 

[carldelo]

The idea of an establishment setting a dress code is itself questionable.

There are thousands of places to dine in the big city --- let the poorly-dressed men-children attend those that want their patronage without regard to bare toes and chest hair, so the grownups can dine where standards are set above the level of the beach comber and the gym rat.

 

[Feraud]

I came away from this article being completely disappointed in Burt Reynolds.

I am more disappointed in Steven Spielberg. Imagine this guy's ego to not take off that dopey baseball cap.

 

[carldelo]

I am more disappointed in Steven Spielberg. Imagine this guy's ego to not take off that dopey baseball cap.

That brings to mind the scene in the Sopranos where Tony 'suggests' to another patron that he remove his cap at the table....

 

[4spurs]

"At the 105-year-old New Orleans restaurant Galatoire's, a weathered plaque on the edifice reads: "Proper Attire Required: Jackets after 5 p.m. and All Day Sunday; Long Pants for Lunch Tues.-Sun." And that's the way it will stay, according to John Georges, the principal owner of the French Creole cuisine stronghold. "New Orleans is a town of traditions, with deep respect for them," he said. "We're not going to change because of the needs of out-of-towners, or because of the dressing trends of the day,"

I can promise you, if you go to New Orleans and dress well you will be treated better. You don't have to go formal everywhere, just avoid short pants, t-shirts, sandals with velcro, and baseball hats and you'll receive a better level of service. That's just the way it is.

 

[MikeBravo]

I came away from this article being completely disappointed in Burt Reynolds.

If he wore I tie, how would he show his famous chest hair? Silly

 

[Marla]

I'd like to know where exactly this "new subculture of metropolitan men, aged loosely from 25 to 40, who have an affinity for a new-old hybrid of sartorial swagger" hang out.

 

[Edward]

I am more disappointed in Steven Spielberg. Imagine this guy's ego to not take off that dopey baseball cap.

I presume it's a vanity thing - afaik, he wears the caps to hide his bald spot. He couldn't do that at the Oscars the year he won for Schindler, so, according to legend, he had a make-up artist spray some sort of coloured make-up on his scalp to colour blend it with his hair. Unfortunately, under stage lights, while giving his speech on receipt of the second Oscar, it started to melt and drip down behind his ear....Should just man up and shave it all off!

I'd like to know where exactly this "new subculture of metropolitan men, aged loosely from 25 to 40, who have an affinity for a new-old hybrid of sartorial swagger" hang out.

London.

 

[Richard Warren]

It is presumption pure and simple for an establishment selling food to try to tell its patrons how to dress. In Galatoire's case, there is some mitigation on account of its location.

In Reynolds's case, it is quite conceivable that he simply did not care enough about meeting with Warhol to suffer the indignity of wearing clothing belonging to someone else, whereas it is clear that the establishment cared enough about Warhol (or Reynolds) to disregard its own standards, which is to say it had no real standards to begin with.

I'm no particular fan of Spielberg, but it's no reflection on him that he was turned way for wearing a cap. There's nothing wrong with wearing a cap and no indication he made an issue of it. At least management stuck to its rule (until it changed it, of course).

There is no indication that either Reynolds or Spielberg when confronted with rudeness acted with anything other than politeness.

 

[bunnyb.gal]

I presume it's a vanity thing - afaik, he wears the caps to hide his bald spot. He couldn't do that at the Oscars the year he won for Schindler, so, according to legend, he had a make-up artist spray some sort of coloured make-up on his scalp to colour blend it with his hair. Unfortunately, under stage lights, while giving his speech on receipt of the second Oscar, it started to melt and drip down behind his ear....Should just man up and shave it all off!


London.

...or he could spend some of his multi-millions on a transplant or Rogaine, if he's that fussed


Not in my part of London - you'd be more likely to bag yourself a snipe than one of the aforementioned "new subculture" members. Round where I am you'll be lucky to find one who can at make it look like his sweatpants, underpants and hoodie top vaguely match...

And for the record my two pence - I'd be more than happy to frequent an establishment with a dress code, and more than happy to comply with it. I see more than enough of the "poorly dressed man-children" (and equally dodgy female counterparts), to quote Carldelo above, day-in day-out to be, well, in a state of constant, vague nausea. I can't imagine the disappointment of, for example, booking a table, perhaps much time in advance, at that special restaurant, for that special first date or anniversary, say, and dressing to impress. Only to be surrounded by, well, you know. Imagine all of those magical scenes in all of those classic Hollywood films that we love, where people are dressed to the nines, swanning about elegantly in gowns and tuxedos and ties. Replace that with t-shirts, jeans, trainers, Uggs, underwear on display...suddenly, not so magical.

 

[skyvue]

A restaurant doesn't just sell food. Grocery stores do that.

A restaurant is -- or can be, though it admittedly isn't always -- selling an experience. Food is a key element of that experience, yes, but so can be (they are not always, of course) an elegant and refined atmosphere, in addition to attentive and deferential service.

If one is seeking that elegant and refined atmosphere, it is spoiled by other patrons wearing tees and sandals. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. And if one is paying a dear price for that elegant dining experience, one might well resent having it so spoiled.

If all restaurants had enforced dress codes, i would agree with you. There certainly ought to be places where one can dine in jeans and t-shirts, if one wishes -- and there are, by the thousands.

One might just as well say a restaurant shouldn't be able to impose its taste in background music on its customers, that patrons ought to be able to bring a boom box and play the music of their choice while dining (yes, I'm aware this is not a perfect analogy, but it gets the point across).

Every business makes choices it imposes on its customers -- prices, hours of operation, mood and atmosphere, whether children are allowed, what credit cards they accept, and on and on and on. Customers consider these and a multitude of other factors in deciding which establishments to patronize.

A customer who prefers to dress casually is certainly justified in opting not to patronize a business that enforces a dress code, just as they would be justified in avoiding a place they feel overcharges or serves mediocre fare. But the business has every right to have that dress code in place, just as they have the right to play the music they choose, serve the type of food they choose, charge the prices they feel are appropriate, or even play the Yankees, not the Mets, on the TV over the bar.

 

[SteveAS]

The idea of an establishment setting a dress code is itself questionable.

It is presumption pure and simple for an establishment selling food to try to tell its patrons how to dress.

Private businesses are entitled to conduct business as they see fit. What's questionable or presumptuous about a restaurant owner creating a restaurant where patrons may enjoy the company of others who have dressed to a particular standard for dinner? Do you object to businesses with "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policies?

There is no indication that either Reynolds or Spielberg when confronted with rudeness acted with anything other than politeness.

There is no indication in the article that either Reynolds or Spielberg were treated with anything other than politeness.

The article describes the situations as,

"'A few years ago, we had a 'no-baseball-caps' policy after 7 p.m.,' said a Polo Lounge manager, 'but after Steven Spielberg was turned away for wearing one, we dropped the policy, like, the next day.'"


"Robert Caravaggi, co-owner of Swifty's—the Upper East Side refuge for 'Bonfire of the Vanities' author Tom Wolfe's 'social X-rays'—recounts the day in the mid-'70s when Burt Reynolds came into his father Bruno's fabled-and-gone New York restaurant, Quo Vadis, wearing an open collar, sans jacket. Mr. Reynolds was there to be interviewed by Andy Warhol, a regular who favored blazers and bow ties. The actor refused to wear a loaner jacket. 'It was a situation,' Mr. Caravaggi said. 'My father didn't want to offend Mr. Warhol.' It was finally decided that Mr. Reynolds could stay. But to hear his son tell it, the dispute may as well have been the nail in Western civilization's coffin."

 

[rue]

I've said this on another thread, but I think it's worth saying again....

When I go out on the town, I'm not just paying for great food, I'm paying for the atmosphere too, which is exactly why I rarely eat out anymore. My last experience was at Morton's. They used to have a dress code and play Frank on the sound system, but after it changed I found myself surrounded by men in short pants and t-shirts listening to some crap music and it wasn't worth the $400 check we received at the end of the meal, not even for the food.

 

[Mr Vim]

The part of the article where Spielberg influenced the Polo Lounge to change their policy on baseball caps... so did Spielberg become a regular customer? In my mind he seems the only one uber famous celebrity that habitually wore a baseball cap no matter where he was. I am not sure he even does that anymore. To me it seems the sold themselves out, and for what? The hope the Spielberg would come back? What if he didn't?

Makes me wonder.

 

[DoubleXX]

@Richard Warren: "There's nothing wrong with wearing a cap ..."

-Maybe in McDonald's, but in a decent restaurant? (depends on how you were raised, I guess...)

 

[billyspew]

I've said this on another thread, but I think it's worth saying again....

When I go out on the town, I'm not just paying for great food, I'm paying for the atmosphere too, which is exactly why I rarely eat out anymore. My last experience was at Morton's. They used to have a dress code and play Frank on the sound system, but after it changed I found myself surrounded by men in short pants and t-shirts listening to some crap music and it wasn't worth the $400 check we received at the end of the meal, not even for the food.

When did they change the dress code? Went there on honeymoon last year and everyone was dressed well. Been a few times and it's my favourite US restaurant, for atmosphere, service and food.

 

[rue]

When did they change the dress code? Went there on honeymoon last year and everyone was dressed well. Been a few times and it's my favourite US restaurant, for atmosphere, service and food.

I don't know if they're all like that and maybe they've changed again, but this was about 4 years ago in Richmond, Virginia. We went for my son's birthday.
The very last time I went was about 2 years ago. I thought we should give it one more chance, since it was in a different state and go to the one in Columbus, Ohio for New Year's Eve and although people weren't wearing shorts and T-shirts, I saw quite a few people in jeans, tennis shoes and polo type shirts and the music was awful.

 

[billyspew]

I don't know if they're all like that and maybe they've changed again, but this was about 4 years ago in Richmond, Virginia. We went for my son's birthday.
The very last time I went was about 2 years ago. I thought we should give it one more chance, since it was in a different state and go to the one in Columbus, Ohio for New Year's Eve and although people weren't wearing shorts and T-shirts, I saw quite a few people in jeans, tennis shoes and polo type shirts and the music was awful.

Maybe it's just indicative of the area they're in?

Next time I'm in Dayton for work I'll try and give it a go.

 

[BR Gordon]

My wife and I were dining at one of the fine restaurants in Santa Fe, New Mexico. We were dressed nicely, suite and tie for myself and evening dress for my wife. What we noticed was the wait staff provided service to us that was much more attentive than what was provided to those in shorts, Tee shirts and ball caps. As Santa Fe is a tourist destination they feel they cannot enforce dress codes, but they make sure to show appreciation to those that dress appropriately.