Dressing Down For Church Has Gone Too Far, CNN Article

[HoosierDaddy]

I agree wholeheartedly LizzieMaine.
HD

 

[HudsonHawk]

The text that always comes to mind for me in these discussions is James 2:2-4.

"2 For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the fine clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor man, Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool;

4 Do ye not make distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?"
-- American Standard Version.

Now, the discussion there is about people in genuine poverty, not generic slobs, but the principle is worth remembering: by what right do *we*, as individuals, judge a fellow worshiper on their choice of clothing? By doing so, aren't we walking down the same path as the satisfied-in-their-own-righteousness Pharisees and their sycophants?

I'm all for dressing appropriately in appropriate situations, but at the same time I've seen the sneers on peoples' faces when someone walks in not dressed to the particular standard preferred by the sneerers. Somehow I doubt Jesus would have gone in for that kind of sneering. The only people he ever threw out of the Temple were the money-changers.

The gripe today is not that poor people are attending church, but the "me first" attitude that too many people have about attending. It's basically the "God, if you want me to attend, you'll have to make it more convenient for me, I don't feel like giving you a little extra" attitude.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But, again, that's between them and God. We're better served by examining our own hearts rather than by guessing at the motives or spiritual attitudes of others. When our own religious motives are utterly pure and without any stain or shortcoming whatsoever, then we'll be able to help those other people straighten out theirs. You know the bit about beams and motes.

If one wants to criticize other peoples' clothing because it's ugly-looking and offends one's sense of aesthetics, that's one thing. But to tie their clothing to a judgement of where they stand with God, well, no. That's not a right we have.

 

[Guttersnipe]

This is fascinating to me. While I'm admittedly a "high holiday" Jew and go to temple rarely, I have noticed that the formality of dress in synagogues has declined a bit since I was a kid. When I was a child, dark suits and somber dresses were ubiquitous, whereas, today I see a fair amount of pastels and business casual. I can't recall ever seeing flip flops, though....

I wonder if, since attending synagogue involves certain ceremonial items such as head coverings and prayer shawls, folks think "well, I might as well put on a button up and slacks while I'm at it"?

 

[HudsonHawk]

If one wants to criticize other peoples' clothing because it's ugly-looking and offends one's sense of aesthetics, that's one thing. But to tie their clothing to a judgement of where they stand with God, well, no. That's not a right we have.

I don't think it's about clothing, per se, but about the watering down of church in general; the trend towards church being a social gathering for daily affirmation rather than a place of worship and religous study. The trend towards casual clothing is a symptom of churches preaching more "here's how God can make you more money" and less "here's how God wants you to live your life". And whether we think we have the right to comment on that, church leaders certainly think it's their responsibility as the flock's shepherd to preach the word of God rather than the word of man.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't think it's about clothing, per se, but about the watering down of church in general; the trend towards church being a social gathering for daily affirmation rather than a place of worship and religous study. The trend towards casual clothing is a symptom of churches preaching more "here's how God can make you more money" and less "here's how God wants you to live your life". And whether we think we have the right to comment on that, church leaders certainly think it's their responsibility as the flock's shepherd to preach the word of God rather than the word of man.

I guess we're lucky up here that we don't have "prosperity gospel" churches -- I'd imagine if Jesus were to walk into one of those he'd find an awful lot to criticize before getting around to commenting on what people were wearing.

But on the matter of clothing, I think the whole "ew, look what THEY're wearing" attitude displays the sort of -- ah -- prune-sucking prissiness that tends to give Christianity a bad name with a lot of people, the idea that to follow Christ means to be constantly picking at little things like what people have on their feet instead of the whole love-thy-neighbor-as-yourself concept that's supposed to be at the heart of the faith. Jesus spent a lot of time with prostitutes and tax collectors and the offscouring of humanity, and he had a lot to say to them about how to live their lives, but I don't remember him ever telling them to put on a better robe if they wanted to come to see him.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I guess we're lucky up here that we don't have "prosperity gospel" churches -- I'd imagine if Jesus were to walk into one of those he'd find an awful lot to criticize before getting around to commenting on what people were wearing.

You're lucky. They're ubiquitous around here.

But on the matter of clothing, I think the whole "ew, look what THEY're wearing" attitude displays the sort of -- ah -- prune-sucking prissiness that tends to give Christianity a bad name with a lot of people, the idea that to follow Christ means to be constantly picking at little things like what people have on their feet instead of the whole love-thy-neighbor-as-yourself concept that's supposed to be at the heart of the faith.

Again, I don't think that's what's going on. It's more the concern that we've got to water down the church going experience in order to attract attendence and fill the offering plate.

 

[jamespowers]

Again, I don't think that's what's going on. It's more the concern that we've got to water down the church going experience in order to attract attendence and fill the offering plate.

Exactly! The standards have been ratcheting down for the past fifty years concerning dressing for the occassion. It needs to be upheld somewhere. If God invited you to dinner, would you show up dressed like a slovenly pig? No because it would be an offense to anyone to show up to a dinner appointment as such---much less God. :doh:

 

[jamespowers]

The text that always comes to mind for me in these discussions is James 2:2-4.

"2 For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the fine clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor man, Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool;

4 Do ye not make distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?"
-- American Standard Version.

Now, the discussion there is about people in genuine poverty, not generic slobs, but the principle is worth remembering: by what right do *we*, as individuals, judge a fellow worshiper on their choice of clothing? By doing so, aren't we walking down the same path as the satisfied-in-their-own-righteousness Pharisees and their sycophants?

I'm all for dressing appropriately in appropriate situations, but at the same time I've seen the sneers on peoples' faces when someone walks in not dressed to the particular standard preferred by the sneerers. Somehow I doubt Jesus would have gone in for that kind of sneering. The only people he ever threw out of the Temple were the money-changers.

I don't think we want to go down that road as:
"Any man who prays or prophesies with something on his head disgraces his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should wear a veil. For a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflection of God; but woman is the reflection of man. (NRSV, 1 Corinthians 11:4-7)

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't think we want to go down that road as:
"Any man who prays or prophesies with something on his head disgraces his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head--it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should wear a veil. For a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflection of God; but woman is the reflection of man. (NRSV, 1 Corinthians 11:4-7)

I was, in fact, wearing a headrag when I posted. I wear one more often than not -- keeps the popcorn oil and Marfak out of my hair.

 

[2jakes]

I was, in fact, wearing a headrag when I posted. I wear one more often than not -- keeps the popcorn oil and Marfak out of my hair.

Popcorn oil from the theater....I got that !

But Marfak...?

Thanks .

 

[LizzieMaine]

Chassis grease. I crawl under my own car to grease the front end, and a headrag prevents me from anointing my own head with oil.

 

[2jakes]

Chassis grease. I crawl under my own car to grease the front end, and a headrag prevents me from anointing my own head with oil.

Curious....I went on the search engine to have an idea of what you posted.
The current crop yielded... nada !

Had to go back a little bit.

Hooray for you !

 

[jamespowers]

I was, in fact, wearing a headrag when I posted. I wear one more often than not -- keeps the popcorn oil and Marfak out of my hair.

Good! lol lol

 

[ChiTownScion]

Perhaps, the older I get, the more cynical I become, but..

I've come to the conclusion that church services are, essentially, theatrical productions. Therefore, I dress accordingly. I'm more inclined to "dressing down" to watch a local Rev. Billy Bob scream his Amens and Hallalujahs from the pulpit than I would be were I to attend a High Church Anglican service or a High (RC) Tridentine Mass.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's where we get into the whole difference between "religion" and "worship." Worship is for God, but religion is for man.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

There's where we get into the whole difference between "religion" and "worship." Worship is for God, but religion is for man.

Exactly.
HD

 

[bbshriver]

It's an interesting topic. I actually don't wear a suit to church primarily because I'd be the only one there wearing one, and as was pointed out along the way it's ill advised to dress in such a way to draw attention to oneself either by dressing up or down too much.

At my brother's church even the pastor will be at the pulpit in cargo shorts and flip flops..

Currently we attend among the most traditional of churches (RC) and jeans, shorts, sandals are not uncommon, and not just among the youth, but the elders as well. I noticed one of the ushers yesterday was wearing some leather crocs (strange looking) along with shorts and polo.

At the other end of the spectrum was my grandfather, very devout, did personal devotions daily etc.

He didn't go to church because he didn't like to dress up. He was visiting us once, and I mentioned that he could come because our church was very casual so he didn't have to dress up... but he responded that he didn't think that was appropriate, you should dress up for church.

 

[Edm1]

I wear a suit and tie to church. I do it out of respect for God. If someone wants to wear flip flops and shorts, that's their choice. If the whole congregation except me is dressed that way, I will probably be seeking a new church. I don't look down on people due to what they wear. I have noticed that in a lot of cases church has become a watered down social event with little to do with paying respect and worship to God. I chose not to attend at these places. I do not like rock bands on stage and preachers wearing jeans with no reference to sin or the Bible. If you want to go there then by all means go. I prefer to show respect by dressing nicer for church than i do for work however. I feel that going to church should be more than checking a box. You should go to worship. Ones personal relationship with God is their own business, but I do think that in a lot of cases, it has become a social gathering and that's it.

 

[jamespowers]

I wear a suit and tie to church. I do it out of respect for God. If someone wants to wear flip flops and shorts, that's their choice. If the whole congregation except me is dressed that way, I will probably be seeking a new church. I don't look down on people due to what they wear. I have noticed that in a lot of cases church has become a watered down social event with little to do with paying respect and worship to God. I chose not to attend at these places. I do not like rock bands on stage and preachers wearing jeans with no reference to sin or the Bible. If you want to go there then by all means go. I prefer to show respect by dressing nicer for church than i do for work however. I feel that going to church should be more than checking a box. You should go to worship. Ones personal relationship with God is their own business, but I do think that in a lot of cases, it has become a social gathering and that's it.

Agreed and that is the rub today....