DOWNFALL

[MudInYerEye]

I rented DOWNFALL a couple of months ago (it had just come out on dvd).
It's been stuck in my mind ever since. Best factual historical film I've seen in many years (and in some ways, maybe ever). That it features an non-judgemental attitude towards portraying a horrible moment in time is very refreshing. Bruno Ganz's performance is mind-boggling. If only all movies had this vision and talent...
Anyone else here seen it?

 

[Solid Citizen]

REQUIRED VIEWING BY EVERYONE!!!

When the German people allowed themselves to be seduced by Hitler, "they got what they deserved" as he stated in the movie. Saw this movie in Washington D.C. & there were a good number of German people in the capacity audience, you couldn't hear a pin drop, peole were stunned/shaken! GOOD Peter :rage:

 

[Harry Lime]

Excellent film.

Intriguing on every level and really provided an insight into people often talked about, seldomn really as three-dimensional people. A fascinating movie, one of the best I've seen in years.

Harry Lime

 

[MrBern]

I enjoyed it.
Interesting to see th people who stood with him to the end & and really thought everything would be ok.
Gotta love the imagery of EvaBraun doing the charleston on a tabletop.
Very sad to see the imagery of the kids.

 

[swinggal]

Yes, it was a great movie. One my favourites for 2005. The absolute waste and insanity of it all...and in the end he blamed his own people and said they 'got what they deserved'. Evil, evil man. Sometimes I wonder if we learnt anything from this terrible time.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

I saw this last night and I think I will be haunted by it for days to come. Ganz's Hiltler was amazing, terrifying and self-deluded. The chaos in Berlin at the time, the killing of civilians, the strange debauchery at parties, seemed so real. It was interesting to see the choices people were making, military men trying to salvage some vestige of honor after serving for years in a deplorable regime, the zealots who were still devoted to the most monstrous ideas in history, the choices Geobbels made and his horrifying zealous rationalization for the countless slaughter and of his disregard for the German people, then later echoed by his wife and her horrible act.

This is an amazing film; like looking directly at the ugly face of history. Once again it seems that some of the best films are coming out of other places beside Hollywood.

 

[scotrace]

Thanks for talking about this as I had missed its release. Have to find a copy as the trailer looks great... I do hope it's subtitled??

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Thanks for talking about this as I had missed its release. Have to find a copy as the trailer looks great... I do hope it's subtitled??

It is subtitled. I caught it on cable last night, on Starz.

 

[Feraud]

I have heard good reviews for this movie. It is in my Netflix queue but was bumped down a few notches as I revise the list. I am going to put it to the top and check it out.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

I have heard good reviews for this movie. It is in my Netflix queue but was bumped down a few notches as I revise the list. I am going to put it to the top and check it out.

I'd be curious as to what you think.

 

[mysterygal]

I've never heard about the movie until now but it sounds great! I love a good historical movie, I always found it intriguing why people do what they do and the people who follow, no matter how insane that leader may be

 

[Feraud]

I've never heard about the movie until now but it sounds great! I love a good historical movie, I always found it intriguing why people do what they do and the people who follow, no matter how insane that leader may be

Absolutely! I cannot help but compare the actions of a country (in this case Nazi Germany) to individuals (present day terrorists) who believe the dogma so completely they devalue the lives of anyone or everyone including themselves and commit the acts they do.

H.J. I adjusted my Netflix queue and Downfall should be shipping today. I hope to watch it and add a few thoughts by the weekend.

 

[matei]

I saw it a few months back. I was surprised... It was different to see Hitler portrayed as a mortal. It was a very good film indeed...

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

I saw it a few months back. I was surprised... It was different to see Hitler portrayed as a mortal.

I heard people criticise exactly that - it shows the "human side" of Hitler (may his name be blotted out!), which can't but raise sympathy. Not my judgement, mark you - I haven't seen it yet.

But what's really a tad scary is what a German friend told me. He saw the picture in a small town that is the place of a military base. Half of the audience were soldiers, and at the first appearance of Hitler most or all of them stood up for a Heil Hitler with their right arms up. Creepy.

 

[scotrace]

But what's really a tad scary is what a German friend told me. He saw the picture in a small town that is the place of a military base. Half of the audience were soldiers, and at the first appearance of Hitler most or all of them stood up for a Heil Hitler with their right arms up.

How can this be? Surely the Germans have done a thorough job of wiping Nazism from the public mind? Even the American-used hotels of the post-war years have been demolished.

At any rate, the local library has a copy and I should see it by the weekend.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Soldiers aren't representative of the population. Luckily, there are big differences between those eternal NCOs and officers, especially those of higher rank. Lots of calm, intelligent people, lots of (non-radical) lefties.

But another issue might be that, against the intention of the producers, films like that can make people feel comfortable in the good old times.

 

[Baggers]

I heard people criticise exactly that - it shows the "human side" of Hitler (may his name be blotted out!), which can't but raise sympathy. Not my judgement, mark you - I haven't seen it yet.

But what's really a tad scary is what a German friend told me. He saw the picture in a small town that is the place of a military base. Half of the audience were soldiers, and at the first appearance of Hitler most or all of them stood up for a Heil Hitler with their right arms up. Creepy.

Not casting any doubts on your friend, but I have a problem with the authenticy of this story. While there is a small but very real right wing neo nazi kook fringe element in that country, I find it hard to believe that a theaterful of serving German soldiers would stand up and give the nazi salute in the presence of civilians unless it was their idea of a very tasteless joke. If anything, the BW has gone out of its way to deny the Hitler era, to the point of not allowing soldiers who served during that period to wear decorations won in combat because they had a "political" taint, besides the fact they had a swastika on them.

I saw Downfall a while back, and I found Bruno Ganz' portrayal even more chilling because of it's humanity. That was what kept him from being a caricature, and thus easily dismissable as a real human being. If you do that, you deny the possibility that sometimes very charismatic people can be very dangerous.

Cheers!

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Not casting any doubts on your friend, but I have a problem with the authenticy of this story.

No doubt, I believe him.

While there is a small but very real right wing neo nazi kook fringe element in that country, I find it hard to believe that a theaterful of serving German soldiers would stand up and give the nazi salute in the presence of civilians unless it was their idea of a very tasteless joke.

Well possible. Still, it's a very fluid boundary, and I'm happy I wasn't part of the audience there - can't imagine I'd have been particularly amused.

the BW has gone out of its way to deny the Hitler era

I'm afraid this is wishful thinking. The early higher Bundeswehr officers were mostly party members, which was excused by the need of people who knew the structures. Even today, barracks, ships and units are (still) named after Nazis, though more and more get renamed. They have a problem with their self-definition, continuity vs. discontinuity, maintenance of traditions etc.

(From quick googling: )

“there had never really been a clean break from the Nazi past, given that the original leadership of the West German Bundeswehr was recruited directly from the upper echelons of Hitler’s army. (Only three out of 217 Bundeswehr generals in 1976 were not Third Reich veterans, and 37 military bases in the Bonn Republic were named after soldiers who made their reputations during the Hitler years.)”
(Martin Lee, The Beast Reawakens, p. 286)​

I saw Downfall a while back, and I found Bruno Ganz' portrayal even more chilling because of it's humanity. That was what kept him from being a caricature, and thus easily dismissable as a real human being. If you do that, you deny the possibility that sometimes very charismatic people can be very dangerous.

Yes, I agree. Which doesn't mean there's not a danger of people identifying with the main character, in particular if he's played by such a great actor as (Swiss) Ganz, probably the best German-speaking actor these days.

Cheers!

 

[Baggers]

No doubt, I believe him.

Well, he's your friend and you should know him. If so, it is disturbing -- even if it was meant as a joke in very poor taste. I wonder if such expressions are a display of ill feelings toward the country's current policies on immigration? Xenophobia seems to be a staple of extreme right wing political movements in Europe these days. Particularly towards those from Islamic countries.

Well possible. Still, it's a very fluid boundary, and I'm happy I wasn't part of the audience there - can't imagine I'd have been particularly amused.

Nor would I.

I'm afraid this is wishful thinking. The early higher Bundeswehr officers were mostly party members, which was excused by the need of people who knew the structures. Even today, barracks, ships and units are (still) named after Nazis, though more and more get renamed. They have a problem with their self-definition, continuity vs. discontinuity, maintenance of traditions etc.

(From quick googling: )

“there had never really been a clean break from the Nazi past, given that the original leadership of the West German Bundeswehr was recruited directly from the upper echelons of Hitler’s army. (Only three out of 217 Bundeswehr generals in 1976 were not Third Reich veterans, and 37 military bases in the Bonn Republic were named after soldiers who made their reputations during the Hitler years.)”
(Martin Lee, The Beast Reawakens, p. 286)​

Well, not excusing anything, but they had to rebuild their military from something. The trick would have been finding officers that were "less nazi" than others, I guess. A few fanatics would have to have been able to slip through the screening. Of course are we talking about officers who had to join the party in order to preserve their careers, or those who were actually ideologically in tune with the NSDAP? Then there is the matter of whether you ignore or marginalize soldiers who merely "did their jobs" defending the Fatherland regardless of the philosophy that made it necessary. A lot of army installations in the U.S. are named after Confederate generals -- Fort Hood, for instance -- and we never made an issue of that if I recall. They were simply good generals deserving of recognition. It's a hard choice for a nation trying to rebuild itself whether or not to recognize good soldiers who just happened to be on the wrong side.

Yes, I agree. Which doesn't mean there's not a danger of people identifying with the main character, in particular if he's played by such a great actor as (Swiss) Ganz, probably the best German-speaking actor these days.

There will always be that element of society that chooses to learn the wrong lessons, but I think the greater danger is not remembering the history (insert famous quote here). By trying to create a full, multifaceted character we hopefully magnify the horror and take away the "larger than life Savior of the Volk" myth like aspect of one of history's most evil personalities.

As an actor, I can appreciate the fine line Ganz and the director had to tread. I don't think I could have pulled it off sucessfully.

Cheers!

 

[MrBern]

schving!

Great movie. Saw it last year in the theater & hoped it would do well at th Oscars.
I liked the depiction of Eva Braun dancing the Charleston on a tabletop whilest Adolph was off sulking.