Dorfman Pacific has had it too good for too long...

[Jerekson]

I'm fed up with the DP Indy deal. It makes me sick.

Let me explain, for any newbies; Dorfman Pacific has had a running deal with Lucasfilm since the mid-80's, producing "Indiana Jones" hats. The idea in itself has alot of potential - we all know how popular IJ is.

Well, DP has a knack for producing really crappy hats that look nothing like the movie hats. And I don't mean nothing, as in, the ribbon isn't right, I mean nothing as in, nothing.

Essentially, the DP hat has a teardrop bash (the Indy hat had a center dent), the crown is about 4 1/2 in. (the Indy hat is a good 5 1/2), the crown has some really nasty taper (the Indy hat is zero-taper).

This is all pretty deep stuff, of course; an average person probably wouldn't even know what taper is. But believe you me, people do notice the differences between the two hats.

I went to Disneyland last year - I wore my Raiders Akubra.

As I walked past the small IJ shop, I saw some of the hats lying around, so naturally I went inside to look at them.

Needless to say they were horrible.

As I was standing there, a kid walked up near me, wearing a DP on his head. I continued looking at the hats, and watched him out of the corner of my eye. He looked me up and down, locked onto my Akubra, and his face lit up.

He then took the DP off his head, and toyed with it a little, as if he were comparing it to mine.

There was a Raiders poster hanging on the wall; his eyes darted to it, then to me, then to the DP. From the poster, to me, to the DP. From the poster, to me, to the DP.

Then he got this look on his face, that said, Now that's what I'm talking about.

He could tell that he was going to be ripped off, and I think that I saw him go put the DP back on the shelf.

ANYWAY, the moral of this story is that the Dorfman Pacific doens't look a thing like any of the movie hats, and it is one of the cheapest quality hats available on the market today. This is a deadly combination.

I know, I know; most people don't even give a rat's ass about screen accuracy or things like that, but the theory is there. People are buying a cheap, $20 hat for $100, because they think it's something that it isn't. To me, that isn't very honest business. Trickery, is what it is. Taking advantage of pop culture, and the people who are subject to instinct buying.

I'd like to hear some of your fellas' opinions on this subject.

Jerekson

 

[RBH]

Right you are my friend!
But most folks dont have any idea what style fedora Indy had. They think a hat is a hat. My Adventurebilt looks nothing like a DP. BUT.. the DP I used to have looked almost like an old fedora my grand dad used to wear.
For what it is - a DP is an ok hat [for a wool].
But like you I wish they did not palm it off as an Indiana Jones fedora. I believe that some folks that might become fedora wearers, will get a hat [DP or other 'cheap' hat] and end up dissatisfied and swearing off fedoras altogether.

 

[Jerekson]

Exactly. The DP is a "starter" hat for many young children, and I for one think that they deserve better...

 

[Aaron Hats]

I hesitate to even respond to this because whatever I say will most likely be viewed as a retailer defending what he sells.

First, I would say that 99.5% of the general public don't have the slightest clue what the IJ hat should look like, nevermind wanting a screen accurate version. I have seen customers pick up leather western hats, oilskin Aussie hats, straw hats and every other style but a ballcap and call it an IJ hat. For that simple reason, DP's version of the hat is close enough for most folks.

As far as the quality of DP is concerned, they are what they are. They don't claim to be the best hats made. The majority of their hats cater to a specific customer with a certain budget. Dorfman offers the greatest variety of hats of any hat manufacturer/wholesaler anywhere. No other brand offers everything from an $8 children's hat, Basque berets, Greek Fisherman caps, wool and fur fedoras, western hats, Aussie hats, ballcaps, buckets and nearly every other style you can mention. They aren't a brand that hat aficionados flock to because that's not what they are. They are a brand that the average family can afford and a great hat to introduce a young man or woman to hat wearing.

Remember, most members here don't represent the general hat wearing public when it comes to their hat buying habits.

Aaron

 

[TaxMan1]

A humble and gracious assessment, Aaron.

 

[Interbak]

I agree the standard wool DP is a cheap piece of junk. I bought one once, and gave it away. However, their lined fur felt one isn't a bad hat at all, and for about $80.00 I doesn't break the bank. It's not a screen accurate Indy hat, I have a Fed for that, and if the Indy pin didn't leave such large holes in the ribbon it would already be gone. I'm one of those people that a tall straight fedora doesn't look great on, but the lower C crown works just fine. Marketing is marketing, and Lucas is the master, at least they're keeping the Indy flame burning. For the aficionados there are Feds, AB's, HJ's etc, for the general public, a $40.00 DP and a brown mall jacket makes them feel like Indy. It's not great, but they may move on.

 

[Pilgrim]

First, I would say that 99.5% of the general public don't have the slightest clue what the IJ hat should look like, nevermind wanting a screen accurate version. I have seen customers pick up leather western hats, oilskin Aussie hats, straw hats and every other style but a ballcap and call it an IJ hat. For that simple reason, DP's version of the hat is close enough for most folks.

[Large snip out of Aaron's post...]

Remember, most members here don't represent the general hat wearing public when it comes to their hat buying habits.
Aaron

Amen. To me, the issue is NOT whether the DP hats are accurate Indy hats (and I really don't care at all whether they're accurate, because DP has a contract that says they get to make them, so that ends the question for me), but whether they get more people enthused about wearing hats.

And that, they do.

I think this is much more a win-win than a lose-lose situation. The more people buy and wear hats, the more likely that fashion is to return. I think that's A Good Thing. And if they want to buy a hat at a certain price point made with certain materials, that's up to them. Purists can argue about anything related to their specialty - the design of a hat, the material in a trigger guard, or whether a tire should have 3" whitewalls or 2" whitewalls - it only matters to them.

Aaron's right - the members here are a vanishingly small percentage of the population, and (aside from the Indy fanatics), the rest of the population simply doesn't care that much. If they want a hat that they think looks like Indy, then let 'em buy it. In a few years maybe a few of them will educate themselves about hats and join us here.

At least they aren't selling Short Round baseball caps. Wouldn't we all be thrilled if THOSE took over as a fashion craze??!!

 

[big kahuna]

I got one...

I have to agree with Interbak and Aaron..I purchased the lined "fur felt" model as a "hat", not because of the Indy Jones connection. The two best selling points to me was the price (under $100), and that their 2x size fit my 8 1/8 head. How many other makers, yet alone custom makers, would even venture to make a big hat for general consumption. It fits and has been durable. I own a few nice hats, some of them custom made to order. The DP hat is not a custom hat by any means, but fills a specific niche for me.

The original posting begs a question...is the general complaint because the hat is not a specific or exact copy of one of the hats (they all differ) used in each of the movies? In order to make afficionado's happy, would you have to offer exacting copies of each hat used in each movie, and further differentiate as "post drenching rain storm" or "Petra rock city dust encrusted" or perhaps " just standing around in humid environment sweat drenched", etc, etc? Or is it about DP hats in general?

Or is the offering of the budget minded Dorfman Pacific Indy hat line offensive because it is attempting to evoke a general, non-specific for the era, or because it does not allow someone to costume themselves accurately as Indy Jones (are their actually IJ police out there, who make sure that your whip is correctly braided or the right length?). Should a fan of Starwars (or any other pop phenomena) eschew wearing a baseball cap or t-shirt with a logo or pic their favorite character, but instead wait for the day that they can wear a 100% authentic jedi cloak and tunic, or a Darth Vader helmet? Is the "official" Lucasfilm DP hat any different than any other company offering a promotional tie-in to their product by offering "official" drinking cups, chips, bath towels, cereal, Franklin Mint plates, wrist watches, etc, etc, etc.

The bottom line for Lucas (and Disney) is that they can offer an affordable product that allows the average IJ fan to have some fun and feel some sort of connection with something that is important to them (there is a whole lot of psych journal stuff out their about consumerism and people's needs to connect).

I have accurate and correct uniforms and accouterments for civil war reenacting...mostly custom made to ensure accuracy. To me, it is important that they be correct when you are educating the public or doing a first-person impression. But quality in everything comes at a increased cost, and this may take time for the average Joe (or Josephine). I have seen many newbies feel crappy after some "expert" pointed out the "flaws" and "inaccuracies" in their purchases, and after time, the "experts and critics" drive more members away than they bring to the flock.

By all means, if there is consensus amongst a gathering of IJ portrayers that they should critique each other's cosumes in order to win a covetous title or prize, then so be it. However, I believe that these bargain hats serve a purpose, and if they bring joy to someones life or introduce a newbie to wearing hats, then congrats to DP. If it's the cheapie felt (unlined) hat that the person buys, the odds are that they won't see much wear and it will sit on a closet shelf. But over time, the true afficianado will learn about quality (and if important to them, accuracy), and they will make different choices when purchasing hats in the future.

And for those who have ventured into the realm of custom hats or who strive for accuracy in your portrayal of a specific character, I hope that you smile inwardly with fond nostalgia about your early forays into hats, etc, when you meet the newbie who is proud of their "authentic" IJ DP fedora.

 

[RedPop4]

Well said, Aaron, Pilgrim and Big Kahuna.
HARRUMPH.
Wore my cheap-ass wool, DP, Disney MGM Studios purchased lid yesterday. It was only $39 there.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

If only DP put as much into replicating the hat as Hasbro puts into duplicating actor's faces on action figures... [huh] Like Aaron says, though - it is what it is. The wool DP Indy's are, in my opinion, garbage. I don't include the DP fur felt because I've never seen one.
What really upsets me is that I have encountered non-Indy wool DP's that are better quality! I own canvas rain hats from DP that have more class than their wool Indy's! :eusa_doh: So, more that anything, it ticks me off that, from what I've seen personally, the worst of DP's hats are from the Indy line! Now THAT'S worth getting heated about! :rage:
NB

 

[tonyb]

Well, DP has a knack for producing really crappy hats that look nothing like the movie hats. And I don't mean nothing, as in, the ribbon isn't right, I mean nothing as in, nothing.

Essentially, the DP hat has a teardrop bash (the Indy hat had a center dent), the crown is about 4 1/2 in. (the Indy hat is a good 5 1/2), the crown has some really nasty taper (the Indy hat is zero-taper).

This is all pretty deep stuff, of course; an average person probably wouldn't even know what taper is. But believe you me, people do notice the differences between the two hats.


Jerekson

That pretty well nails it, Jerekson. You're right -- most people don't have the knowledge to articulate what they like or don't like about a hat. (Center dent? Taper? Wuzzat mean?) But they would, if you or some other fedora fancier were to point out the particular attributes of an Akubra Federation, say, or an Adventurebilt, and then contrast them with what they get in those "authentic" DP hats.
Just because they can't quite say what it is about a particular hat that sets it apart doesn't mean they don't sense that there is indeed something that sets it apart. If your experience is at all like mine, you know it is your relatively tall-crowned, untapered (and perhaps vintage) lids that are likeliest to provoke the "nice hat" comments from Joe and Josephine Public.

 

[Earp]

I Bought A Fur Felt One

For years I wanted a hat like my grandfather's. I didn't know about bashing them yourself until I joined the lounge. I just knew that his was fur felt and I had clear memories of what it looked like. Lo and behold, the fur felt Dorfman Pacific had everything right. The lower crown height that fits my face shape so well and the hat's color and the grosgrain ribbon's width and color were right on. I was so excited about my find and it brings me so much pleasure to wear it. I have received so many compliments on it and several folks who have seen me wearing it about have either purchased a fedora for themselves or asked how to get one.

Of course, I didn't buy it as an Indy hat. During my search for "my grandfather's hat" I had done enough research on different styles, bashes and crowns (and on the various hats used in the films) to know it wasn't really an Indy style one. But it was exactly what I was looking for and, for my current budget, a great price for a fur felt hat. First thing I did was take the Indy pin off of it and put one of my own in it's place to cover the mark from the old one. It looks great!

Of course I see the problem some have. I knew it wasn't a true Indy style hat -- it just happened to be the style I had been searching for. I can see why those who strive for accuracy in the depiction of the Indy look are frustrated by it's being advertised as the real thing and that it could mislead someone who isn't knowledgable about the hats used in the film. I am, however, so happy I found it.

I wish I could find a gray one just like it. Did someone say the Dorfman Pacific had a "C" crown? How do these crown height designations work?

--Wyatt--

 

[RBH]

I hesitate to even respond to this .......

Aaron

Way to go Aaron, they are what they are and truth be told they are an alright hat to have.
I have had 3 DP's in my time and love a c-crown and may have another in the future.
I think there is a place for all 'kinds' of hats.
I have reached a place in my life where it is not out of the question to consider a hat by Art [I have a panama in the works], I already have an Adventurebilt. A DP may just be the ticket for some right now. I wish the marketing was better, but it is what is is.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

DP Indy fur felt

My fur felt from DP is a much better made hat than a new Borsalino I had. I'm not kidding...

 

[Warlock]

Men with Hats

I would not select a DP indy now, but at one earlier time, I would have worn it. I would simplky like to see the classic look, complete with hats, return. To the extent that the DP Indy does that, and introduces men into moving forward into increasingly better style, I give them credit.

I do not think that they sugest that they are better hats than they are. The only thing that puzzles me is that authenticity inference they promote, but they are backed up by the license. The fact is that if Indy were not fictional, I suspect he would be so hard on hats that he would need a frequent resupply.

 

[besdor]

When thing loungers should be aware of is that Dorfman Pacific is now making all of the felt and wool hats in China . In the past , these hats came from the USA and the Czeck republic. The hats aren't bad for the price but they aren't what they used to be.



Steven
www.bencraft hats.com