Don't forget your POISE

[melankomas]

Years ago I took a public speaking course, and "poise" was one of the qualities on which we were graded -- not just how we conducted ourselves on the platform but also how we looked as we approached the podium before the talk and left it afterwards. No clomping, no schlepping, no sauntering, no shuffling, no draping one's-self over the lectern. I've found this training quite valuable -- and in lieu of a real finishing school, I'd definitely recommend looking into such courses!

i rather thought it was the place of a parent or guardian to teach respect, and that well before a child entered school. i have no children, so i doubt my opinion is significant. are schools meant to teach respect?

as to the idea of assets held by all women...i'm afraid i consider that a bit of a myth. i've been female my entire life (which, i grant you, has only lasted a quarter of a century thus far), and have no feminine assets of the type gok (who i admire greatly) mentioned. i was taught to behave in an orderly, considerate manner, but have often been told i am more a gentleman than a lady.

i don't know that everyone needs finishing school. i agree that several young males and females don't conduct themselves becomingly, but i think a tour of military duty would solve that problem as well as any finishing school. there you have it, i don't agree that females need be ladies in any Empowered Womanhood manner (though i certainly don't think it need be avoided, if it happens), but i do agree that behavior standards are important.

my skills in English conversation have been exhausted. how do i turn the noun "behavior" into an adjective? i'm certain it's obvious, and escaping my overtaxed brain.

 

[Mojito]

Whatever makes you feel like a woman is great, but don’t expect others to view their femininity the same way you view yours. Being pigeonholed is such a drag.

Count me in as another person who agrees! Thank goodness for choice.

Posture does concern me, but as much from the point of view of physical well-being as aesthetics (although IMHO one flows on from the other). Perhaps because I'm a bit tall, I have to fight the tendency to round my shoulders and slouch. This and several other aspects of how I'm put together (including the bio-mechanics I was born with and hyperflexibility which has led to problems such as over-pronation) have meant that I've had to spend a lot of time with physios and my podiatrist. The problem becomes particularly pronounced when I'm in training for a long distance running event, such as a half-marathon or longer.

I find that in addition to physio prescribed exercises, Pilates has been wonderful for improving core strength and posture, both while running and seated for long hours at work. Like Yoga, it not only makes me more acutely aware of my body and how it goes together, it gives me the physical tools improve how I sit and walk in order to maximise my body's efficiency.

Sometimes you see runners - like walkers - clumping along, slouched over, and heavy on their feet. It looks 'wrong', because in a physical sense it is - the stresses they're placing on their body mean they're not moving as efficiently as they can, and at worse they're setting themselves up for injury.

Watch a runner who has it together - they seem to skim the earth, treading lightly, moving economically and yet covering more ground with less apparent effort...when I think of 'grace', that's what I visualise. The human body moving with an economy of effort, where everything seems to work together and become a beautiful whole rather than an assembly of parts.

Same with walking. The human head is incredibly heavy, for example. If you move with it bent forward, it creates stress in the neck and upper body. Slouch, and the poor lower back - which absorbs so much of the strain of incorrect movement - suffers for it.

Of course, what I'm describing is an ideal...in an ideal world, I wouldn't feel the need to sometimes pull on high heels that shorten my poor calf muscles! But if I ever wish someone (usually myself) would sit a little straighter or stop rounding their shoulders, it's because I can see the physical harm they're doing to themselves.

Annnnd...I'll just tip-toe back off the soapbox now...

 

[LizzieMaine]

And there's nothing wrong with discussing poise - I like the tip about putting both feet on the curb before standing up from a car. I just know that it isn't necessary to discuss it at the expense of others. I *hate* when a group of people break of from the average everyday crowd because it is judgmental, then get together and act just like the people they were trying to separate themselves from! I'm no perfect angel, but I try.

One of the best definitions of "poise" I ever came across described it as "Tact in the face of any unexpected social situation." If you can smile and remain gracious and composed when Uncle Ned drops his toupee in the punchbowl at your elegant wedding reception -- or, for that matter, if Aunt Rainforest the ex-hippie shows up in camouflage cargo pants and Birkies when the invitation clearly spelled out FORMAL -- you can be sure that you do, in fact, posess "Poise."

Cattiness, however, has nothing to do with poise -- and is even antithetical to it.

 

[JoyfulGirl]

As for the bra burning thing, that supposed political tactic is just another myth of the feminist movement. I have never found a single book, '60s feminist activist, or counter activist that has proof of this happening - at least not here in the US. If anyone can prove it happened, that is fine, but otherwise it's not a sound judgement of a valid political struggle.

My mother - a die-hard feminist - used to go to protests dressed in her best suit and white gloves! And from all her protests, she never saw anyone burn their bras. You can be many things at one time. People do judge by first impressions and by what you wear and how you act...but that doesn't make it or the information you've gathered right.

Anyway, I believe posture and poise are very important. If only because bad posture can lead to back problems (or so I've been told). Unfortunately, I'm a certified slumper and terribly ungraceful. If anyone is going to trip or fall while in a group it'll be me. Believe me, if there was some class to teach me what heels to wear with what and the proper way to walk while wearing them, I'd sign up in a heartbeat!

 

[ohairas]

I think what I said about girls wanting to be one of the guys was taken way out of context. It's not that I don't wear jeans or flipflops myself! I was merely trying to point out the incredible difference in women today vs. a women in the 40's.. which isn't that what we pretty much talk about daily here? I'm not dogging "them", it's the fact that nowadays when a gal puts on a dress everyone wants to know "where you're going~what's the occasion?". That's my point, causual is in and I'm the "weirdo" that everyone's wispering about because I'm wearing a dress and have my hair done, and girls give me the eye as if I'm trying to lure their men~please [huh] ~I'm just being me as well (and I never said I was a lady, I could use some finishing lessons myself!

Nikki

 

[katiemakeup]

Oh if I could change one thing about myself it would be my posture. It's horrible. As much as I try to stand up straight it just does not come naturally, my sister and cousin are the same way. Is it some sort of gene? LOL!
I've tried exercises and special bras... why oh why can't I just do it without thinking about it!
At least when I'm out I always think to stand up straight. But there are SO many teens that slouch these days. Nikki

Ah yes! I took ballet when I was younger and still find myself trying to keep my shoulders back, neck tall etc... A few years ago, my chiropractor told me that correct posture comes from rolling your back up straight, between your shoulder blades. I *try* to be concious of it, but goodness I'm tiredlol

My grandmother, who was fully educated in so-called etiquette, used to tell me to never date outside of my race.

That's deep! My grandmother only told me that ladies shouldn't wear pants or chew gum!

 

[Miss Sis]

I did ballet for 20 years, and it has stood me in good sted for posture. It comes naturally now. I still have back and neck problems though - probably caused by ballet, although no-one knows. Hmmmmmm.
My mother used to berate me for 'walking like a farmer' when I was younger. It got through in the end. People usually comment on how nicely I stand and walk now. Also I had high heels that were my size I got from my Aunt who has little feet when I was about 9. I practised walking in them and have never had a problem since.

 

[GOK]

Bra burning....

I'd just like to say that I used the expression as a merely that; a metaphor. I don't seriously think that women burned their bras but I do know that certain feminists held and still do, that corsets were nothing more than female bondage as dictated by males. I suspect that the term bra-burners probably derived from something like that. This the kind of mindset that I was speaking against - the idea that women only do things to make themselves attractive because it is what men like. Or it will get them a man. I'd be very surprised if there were any women here with that attitude - we look attractive because we want to. Don't we?

I stand by what I said about the aggressive and loutish behaviour. It may well be their choice but it doesn't make it right, nor that I have to like it. And when it causes harm to others, what then?

And I do think that all these young girls that cannot walk in their shoes do look quite ungainly. I'm not saying they are horrible people - merely that their look doesn't appeal to my sense of aesthetics. Of course it is up to them how they dress but whenever I see this kind of thing, I do fear that they will do themselves some lasting damage.

However, slating someone because of the way they dress is, IMO, not a very ladylike thing to do. I think it's reasonable to say we don't like a certain way of dressing but that's where the line should be. If we cross that then surely we do ourselves as much a disservice as the objects of our disrespect?

There are things I wouldn't dream of wearing, looks I think are completely ghastly but I accept that beneath the clothing there is a human being and one that may be the loveliest person in the world. I'd find it difficult to believe that of an aggressive person...although in some cases the aggression can be nothing more than a self defence mechanism to hide the vulnerability inside.

The bottom line is that if we want to be treated with dignity and respect, we first have to show it to others. I believe there is a saying about respect having to be earned?

I'd also like to point out that despite being able to walk well in high heels, there have been times when after having worn 4" all day, my feet have hurt, so I've removed my sandals and walked barefoot on the grass. This was preferable to an impression of the Little Mermaid and a lot more dignified. It didn't make me less of a lady. Why would it?

 

[Paisley]

We can't not make an impression by our appearance and demeanor. Slouchy posture gives an impression of low self-esteem. (Note I said "gives an impression of," not "shows.") And it's hard to not be influenced by a person's impression. Studies have shown that even when people try hard not to be influenced by race, sex or age, they cannot help it. All they can do is be conscious of their bias and make an allowance for it.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

We can't not make an impression by our appearance and demeanor. Slouchy posture gives an impression of low self-esteem. (Note I said "gives an impression of," not "shows.") And it's hard to not be influenced by a person's impression. Studies have shown that even when people try hard not to be influenced by race, sex or age, they cannot help it. All they can do is be conscious of their bias and make an allowance for it.

Indeed. But we can all decide not to sit here whining about others here, and instead concentrate on 'what we ourselves can change or improve'

So, posture hints anyone?

 

[GOK]

Yes, don't look at the ground as you walk (or stand), look ahead. Also good for preventing embarrassing bumps into walls and lamposts!

 

[BettyValentine]

Indeed. But we can all decide not to sit here whining about others here, and instead concentrate on 'what we ourselves can change or improve'

So, posture hints anyone?

My mom always said that Marilyn was told to "walk like you're squeezing a quarter in your bottom." (vaguely edited by me). I don't find that helpful at all.

I used to try to walk around with a book on my head when I was small, but I think it's very easy to slouch, swing your arms, and do weird stuff with your legs and still keep a book on your head. (I may have a very large, flat head). But I can't slouch if I keep my stomach muscles tight. So I just hold my stomach in whenever I'm standing up and that fixes my posture. I can't slouch in heels either, because I'll fall over. (I don't know why. Is that just me? Can anyone slouch in heels?)

I've got *awful* posture when sitting down, unless I'm paying attention. (This thread makes me pay attention.)

What about leg crossing? I know I'm supposed to cross at the ankles, but you have to engage your thigh muscles to do that. Is there a way to do this with your legs at rest? Because when I cross at the knee I can just relax my legs and they stay put, but at the ankles I have to put a conscious effort into holding them there. (Also I find it hard to keep my upper body straight with my legs crossed. I'm doing it now and I feel off balance.)

BV

 

[Paisley]

I just stand as tall as I can with my shoulders back and chin up. (Mind, I don't crane my neck or strain my back.) I walk like I have a purpose in life.

 

[Paul]

Crossing your legs

This has me puzzled because when I have tried to cross my knees, apart from been very uncomfortable and cannot stay in the position for more then a minute or two my leg also sticks out at a undignified angle not very lady like along with the knee going up to my chin. I put that down to thick thighs.
The alternative, I have seen ladies sitting with there knees together and the legs sloping to one side, and crossed ankles but which is the proper way to sit I cannot decide.
Would be nice to know how to sit correctly.

 

[Miss Crisplock]

At the risk of turning you into a zombie, the answer is that (qualifier, qualifier, qualifier) legs are crossed at the ankle.

 

[LizzieMaine]

For some really good examples of how to move gracefully -- sitting, standing, leg-crossing -- see the current film "The Queen," with Helen Mirren as Her Majesty. We're just finishing a three week run of this, and I've now seen it twenty-three times -- and just watching the stately way that Mirren moves in the role has made me that much more conscious of my own movements and posture. It's tough to describe in words what she does -- but she makes everything she does look precise yet fluid.

Also, so far as posture goes, a good girdle can work wonders.

 

[Kim_B]

When you think back on the lifestyle of the 30's-50's women compared with today, I'm willing to bet that had a lot to do with posture. Speaking for myself, I feel like poo at the end of the day - I work at least 10 hours and 95% of that is spent at my desk staring at a computer monitor. My eyes are tired, by neck and back are sore from sitting so long, and I can only imagine how wide my rear end has become from sitting on it so much! (I'm half-joking...) Women back then were a lot more active than some of us are today - they did a lot of work around the house and running errands that required them to be on their feet a good deal of the time, and thus making them more aware of how they are standing, etc - it's much more difficult to slouch when you're on your feet all day! Then factor in all the foundation garments that were worn, it's no wonder they always appeared so prim and proper!

 

[Shimmy Sally]

This reminds me of a previous thread:
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=5834&highlight=manners

 

[Miss Dottie]

Also, so far as posture goes, a good girdle can work wonders.

Ditto that! I always find that my posture is better when I'm dressed up!

I was an early bloomer, so I developed a naughty slouching habit that I'm still trying to break today. I think my parents told me to "stand up straight" at least three times a day during my teenage years. Sigh!

 

[GOK]

Corsets are excellent for posture too. You really cannot slouch when wearing one.