Does vintage clothing attract a rude/violent response?

[avedwards]

Does vintage clothing ever draw excessive rudeness or even violence? I hope this thread can be in a similar vein to the "dumbest comment" thread on the hat forum but when it's more than just a silly comment.



I've had two such incidents in the last month.

Two weeks ago a man started shouting at me just for looking in his vague direction (I was walking along a main road and casually glancing at some houses which he was standing in front of). I told him it was a free country and therefore my right to look where I wanted, at which I received threats, though nothing happened as I just carried on walking.

Then last Saturday I was at a cashpoint when a rather drunken man came up behind me and took my hat off. I was forced to quickly cancel my transaction to withdraw my card so I could follow him. He ended up trying to throw my hat to a friend, though it landed on the ground where I was quickly able to retrieve it, upon which I asked him whether he knew it was rude to steal other people's property. I then called him something profane which I won't repeat (and wouldn't normally use) and decided to head back to the pub I had originally left to withdraw cash.

Neither of these incidents ended up being particularly serious, but I find it immensely irritating that some people have to act in such a hostile way. In the case of last Saturday's incident I have sent the local police station an email suggesting they step up their presence, given that I was in the middle of town next to a major bank and several pubs on a Saturday evening and there wasn't a single officer in sight.

 

[scotrace]

Historically, this seems to be much more common in the UK. I wonder why?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

^^^
How old was this "man"? I've encountered drunks but none of them tried to snatch my hat. I always wore hats when I was a kid and had to constantly contend with that kind of juvenile nonsense from these brat prats.

 

[avedwards]

The drunken man was about 25-30. Definitely old enough to know better.

Historically, this seems to be much more common in the UK. I wonder why?

I honestly don't know, as foreigners still seem to think of the English as civilised people. Whilst there are no doubt some civilised Englishmen left, we seem to increasingly be an island full of imbeciles.

 

[Drappa]

I honestly don't know, as foreigners still seem to think of the English as civilised people. Whilst there are no doubt some civilised Englishmen left, we seem to increasingly be an island full of imbeciles.

Since I am a foreigner, as is my family, that sadly isn't really the case. Most non- English people I know consider drunken Brits, especially holiday makers, the rudest and most violent nationality around. My husband, who is British, just returned from a business trip in Germany and asked me why there isn't as much public violence there, despite the fact that Germans consume more alcohol than the Brits. We have often been in situations where someone accidentally bumped into someone in my hometown, and both people just walked on. My husband is always amazed that such things don't result in obscene language and fist fights.
As to whether vintage invites such things, I think it does because it makes us stand out. Some people can't seem to be able to tolerate this, so whether you are vintage, goth, or gay, you'll be picked on occasionally by small-brained idiots with no purpose in life.

 

[Edward]

I think it comes down to the fact that a certain type of person is threatened by anything 'different' because they do not understand it, and so they react aggressively. I've never had trouble in London - down here, you can get away with most anything if you're confident about it. Usually there's someone much weirder than you anyhow. I've been out in a lot of, eh, eye-catching stuff over the years, from vintage to bondage wear, full Rocky Horror costumes and even drag, never once had hassle in London. Plenty of people wanting to take a photo of/ with me, but not abuse. Poor Phillip Sallon wasn't so lucky recently, which is desperately sad in this day and age. Good on him for refusing to be cowed by it. Elsewhere, it can be worse. The only place I've ever experienced a physical attack was Liverpool (for which I didn't much care anyhow, to be honest), and it was definitely intimidating. I'm a fairly big guy and I could probably have done some serious damage if I'd had to, but it was the sheer number of them (a couple of dozen to three of us) and the total uniformity of their look that was intimidating.

Anyhow, in my experience, it's not vintage that attracts these kind of idiots - it's anything different. If you'd been a goth, a tranny, a hippy or whatever, you'd have gotten the same.

The main problem I find with hats, FWIW, is the number of people who just don't get that it's not some cheap, fancy dress item. I usually tell them they can't try it on cause they'll catch my cooties. Or that it'll mess up my air (which confuses them if they#re not to drunk to notice the only hair on my head is eyebrow and eyelash...). Occasionally, a smart mouth will put down pretty much any of them, though at night and if I'm on my own and there are a fair few of them, I tend to find it wisest to walk fast and avoid eye contact.

 

[subject101]

Anyhow, in my experience, it's not vintage that attracts these kind of idiots - it's anything different. If you'd been a goth, a tranny, a hippy or whatever, you'd have gotten the same.

When you go vintage you just don't look as menacing as a goth, a punk or a Liverpool FC supporter... and basically, these kind of attacks are made not only by drunken btds but cowards too.

The main problem I find with hats, FWIW, is the number of people who just don't get that it's not some cheap, fancy dress item.

I agree and I think a Fedora is the perfect victim when it comes to attract these kind of people.

My husband, who is British, just returned from a business trip in Germany and asked me why there isn't as much public violence there, despite the fact that Germans consume more alcohol than the Brits.

Germany and the UK are two different worlds. However, there are certain places, neighborhoods and spots in both countries that scare me to hell :eeek:

 

[avedwards]

Germany and the UK are two different worlds. However, there are certain places, neighborhoods and spots in both countries that scare me to hell :eeek:

True, but on the whole Germans appear to be able to control themselves better when under the influence of alcohol than English people (this may be a very broad generalisation but I have found it to be true in many cases). Plus I have always found Germany tends to be a lot less loud mouthed to hat wearers than the UK.

Personally I do not think alcohol is any excuse at all for rude or inconsiderate behaviour. Alcohol does not make people do things they would not normally do, it simply makes them do things they would normally be too inhibited to do. Having had experiences where I ended up drinking far more than I care to know, I cannot say I acted any more aggressively or rudely than I do when sober.

Anyhow, in my experience, it's not vintage that attracts these kind of idiots - it's anything different. If you'd been a goth, a tranny, a hippy or whatever, you'd have gotten the same.

I simply mentioned vintage because I'm guessing there's a lot more vintage dressing people on this forum than goths, trannies or hippies. But it's true that anything that's remotely different can be an abuse magnet in some areas.

The main problem I find with hats, FWIW, is the number of people who just don't get that it's not some cheap, fancy dress item.

That also annoys me, though not as much as abusiveness. Countless times I have been asked whether I am in fancy dress just because I happen to be wearing a classically cut suit and a fedora. I give the people who ask this a strange look and tell them that it's just a hat and a suit.

 

[Edward]

The best response I ever heard was Paddy's - he recounted it on an old thread here somewhere. Apparently some smartass inquired of our Paddy as to whether he was attending a funeral, given the manner of his clothing. So he says "Yes. My mother's". lol Reminds me of the time I told a guy who said I looked like "a nazi" and "Rudolph Hess" that I was a Jew....

 

[subject101]

Personally I do not think alcohol is any excuse at all for rude or inconsiderate behaviour. Alcohol does not make people do things they would not normally do, it simply makes them do things they would normally be too inhibited to do.

Ok, but bear in mind some spots in England are not specially peaceful and you had a drunken bully in front of you. You can expect anything but a considerate behaviour.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I spent a good deal of time in England, mostly on the "wrong side of the tracks" in London. My experience was that, certain segments of British society, engage in a culture of casual pugilism that's unique to the UK.

 

[RadioWave]

I've spent a fair amount of time in rough neighborhoods, and have found that unwarranted hostility usually goes hand-in-hand with low intelligence and poor upbringing. I wouldn't pay it any more heed than a dog that growls when you get too close - just quietly walk away.

Sorry to hear about your lid. Unfortunately, like Edward said, hats tend to be the favorite plaything of the grossly inebriated.

 

[The Good]

Idiots... they've got no class. I probably would have shouted back at them myself, but I would really, if in my right mind, turn the other cheek and carry on.

The best response I ever heard was Paddy's - he recounted it on an old thread here somewhere. Apparently some smartass inquired of our Paddy as to whether he was attending a funeral, given the manner of his clothing. So he says "Yes. My mother's". lol Reminds me of the time I told a guy who said I looked like "a nazi" and "Rudolph Hess" that I was a Jew....

Funny you should mention the "Nazi" comment. I'm far from being ideologically associated with such evil, perverse beliefs, but my younger brother did kind of jokingly say that my hair, the way it was styled, looked Hitler-esque. This happened on two occasions that I could recall, and both times, my hair was slicked with Brylcreem or pomade, but side-parted in a way that maybe it appeared slanted down... I never part on the left for the very reason I wish to avoid any Hitler association. Either the right, middle, or none at all for me. The left is pretty strictly avoided.

 

[cecil]

I agree with the sentiment that it's often more because you look different than because you're wearing vintage. I copped a lot more flak during my goth/punk teenage years. Depends on where you are too, in the areas where I live and work nobody bats an eyelid, but if I go out to the sticks plebs are rude to me.

When I go out the reaction is overwhelmingly positive. The only nasty titters or sourpuss faces come from less smartly put-together women, and I only ever take that as a compliment because it's obviously the green-eyed monster at work.

I have had someone try to take my hat off, again, it was a (rather inebriated) woman.

 

[RodeoRose]

Oh, I believe I've been treated rudely on account of my vintage dress and style many times. My constant state of what others deem to be formal dress (stockings, frocks, set hair, lipstick...) has attracted a fair share of teasing and cattiness from strangers; never violence luckily, probably because I'm a girl.

Of course there are some unfortunate folk who lash out at anyone deemed "different" or "strange". However, I've also observed that others (girls and women especially) seem to assume that I consider myself above them and somewhat haughty because of the way I look! To the average, historically ignorant passerby, our vintage garb may read more as "formal" rather than "1940s" or what-have-you. This can have a provocative effect on others in my experience, dredging up insecurities as Cecil noted, or just providing them with fodder for mockery.

 

[SGT Rocket]

Very interesting. I don't dress vintage per se, but I am vintage inspired. I've never had a problem in Texas (small or large towns) or the Twin Cities where I live now. Then again I'm 6ft 3in tall and 230 lbs. When I must, I can walk like the biggest, baddest, m*f* in the valley.

But, alas, I never seem to find myself in a location where I must walk with that persona.

 

[dhermann1]

I've generally had the opposite experience. I've been living in the Bronx for 3 years now, just north of what would be considered the "North" Bronx, and the "South" Bronx. So on my subway ride to work and to all other activities in the city, I pass through the South Bronx. Just about the only reactions I get from the bruthas and home boys in the hood are overwhelmingly positive. They really dig my look, and I get occasional compliments.

 

[lolly_loisides]

Depends on where you are too, in the areas where I live and work nobody bats an eyelid, but if I go out to the sticks plebs are rude to me.

I live in the Blue Mountains (I guess you could call it"the sticks") & I've never have a problem at all (though there are alot of rockabillies where I live, so the locals are used to us) . The only time when people were rude about how I was dressed was when I was in Sydney CBD [huh]

 

[sheeplady]

One incident which I was sure from my dress was a few weeks ago. I was at the bus transfer (like an open-air bus station). A man asked me for money, I said no, he told me I looked and acted like a real lady (very nice, I thought, considering I didn't give him any money). When I got on the bus to go home, a man motioned to me and then lectured me sternly about giving money to beggars, telling me that I was going to get my purse snatched or invite worse things to happen to me.

I told him I knew this was a risk, and he kept on about it getting more nasty and even aggressive towards me, telling me I didn't know and detailing all the bad things that could happen to me. I think he wanted me to swoon at his "rescue" and got mad that I didn't. I'm sure that he assumed I was an innocent, non-regular bus rider. (I ride the bus almost every workday, just not at that time). I think it has to do with people assuming I'm "above them" as RodeoRose indicated.

I once also had a girl give me such a nasty look of disgust that I burst out laughing. It looked like she had eaten a bad peach. It actually made my day.

If anybody ever touched me, I'd probably end up dead or in jail or beaten badly. I really, really, don't like being touched by strangers.

 

[Swing Motorman]

Of course there are some unfortunate folk who lash out at anyone deemed "different" or "strange". However, I've also observed that others (girls and women especially) seem to assume that I consider myself above them and somewhat haughty because of the way I look!

I completely agree with RodeoRose's and sheepylady's comments. After some careful investigating, I found that a few cold-mannered young ladies at my college swing dance club were annoyed at me because I acted "haughtily" towards them. I can't see why they think that, since I'm a mediocre dancer and as a result, a humble learner.

The more I spoke to people who seemed to dislike me, the more I found people who thought the same. I can guess my daily fedora wearing and liking of button-down shirts are enough to cause that in a small college. I found people who just seemed to think the "different" tastes were threatening, and oddly enough, these were largely members of a certain rights-advocacy group on campus that usually has their own concerns about being perceived as "different."

Since I don't want to give up my style, I've been thinking of ways to be more clearly humble, and I hope to turn these people's questionably fair perceptions into a positive personality shift. And I'll know a true friend from the rest of the crowd by their understanding.


-Steven