Travis Lee Johnston
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Does vintage clothing attract a rude/violent response?
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Rats Riley
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I'd have to say that's pretty much the kid stuff and cookie cutter looks of the current "It" girls. People in the know, know the difference between what's sharp and what's not. I've always liked to see folks who have their own image. I also think that fellas feel self conscious when they're under dressed and someone looks better or stands out. In turn they don't know what else to but make some immature comment.
So don't let them get away with it. Be confident and be yourself!
Puzzicato
One Too Many
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That is very nicely expressed.
Mocheman
One of the Regulars
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I think you're right. A man taking care of his appearance these days includes hair gel and tanning, maybe a shave... If its a special occasion. The lawyers I work with wear suits and ties to court, but when they're around the office, they dress in shorts and t-shirts, even if it isn't Friday.
(My father is the last hold-out: He wears a jacket and tie to the office every day.)
Heh, your father isn't the only hold out. I wear a suit and tie every day of the week all year round.(today I'm wearing a bow tie) And here in Florida I stick out like a sore thumb. I'm awash in flip flops and t-shirts.
MisterCairo
I'll Lock Up
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I think you're right. A man taking care of his appearance these days includes hair gel and tanning, maybe a shave... If its a special occasion. The lawyers I work with wear suits and ties to court, but when they're around the office, they dress in shorts and t-shirts, even if it isn't Friday.
(My father is the last hold-out: He wears a jacket and tie to the office every day.
People say lawyers are still conservative when it comes to dressing. Here in Stratford, Ontario, a small town to boot, my boss and I appear to be the only ones who wear a tie to the office EVERY DAY. A collared shirt and jacket on a lawyer here is considered "dressed up".
But shorts and tee shirts?! :eeek:
Edward
Bartender
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I believe that it is often, at least in part, symptomatic of a homophobic outlook, rooted in the twin assumptions that it is somehow "gay" for a man to make an effort, and that to appear "gay" is a Very Bad Thing. Ironically, a fair whack of the gay guys I've known over the years are among the very worst offenders for looking like they just rolled out of bed with a hangover, having slept in their clothes (the key difference being that, almost exclusively, a gay guy who adopts this look is more likely to have done so as a concious style choice rather than slobbery). [huh]
Forgive me, but..... what the HELL is that???
Gah. Your area is clearly bereft of men with taste if they prefer that. It's only a shame you're unavailable, and a continent away, and probably a good ten years too young....
If ever my midlife crisis involves a Harley, I will have to shoot myself.
Actually, I wish more people were so quick to reveal themselves as so thoroughly unpleasant: saves wasting time getting to know them.
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I was wondering the same thing. I'm such a cultural illiterate when it comes to modern pop culture. I haven't really watched TV since the early 1990s. And it seems that the good ones are always taken. Sadly, when I see a single, unattached woman my age, the first thought that enters my mind is that the divorce must have been a very messy one.
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Edward
Bartender
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Ha.... I'm probably not far off that stage myself - I'll be 37 in a couple of months. I've basically ended up as..... whatever the man version of the Cat Lady is. lol
C-dot
Call Me a Cab
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But a very dapper thumb! Hooray for hold outs
Not only that, but they are extremely accomplished men who have gone to the Supreme Court! That district of Toronto is full of snappy dressers too, so it was odd to me. (PS, I adore Stratford.)
I was thinking that myself. This city has its fair share of "metrosexuals," but to me, they border on effeminate. Which is a different story altogether. As for Miss Thing... Well, its a mystery to me too lol
What's an ocean and a few years? I love me a man with taste!
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For work we wear Dickie's pants. I iron creases in mine and always wear a pressed and creased shirt to work before I change into my uniform shirt. The looks I get aren't even funny.
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I have often thought that men (as a gender) have more issues with insecurity than women, because insecurity is seen as unacceptable for men. To be manly, you have to be "secure." As a woman, it is ok to be insecure about your looks, how you dress, etc.
For men, I think they probably have (as a gender) the same amount of insecurity as women do, but they can't express it because such expression is not socially acceptable. I wonder if for some men, this insecurity builds up and bubbles out as aggression and extreme conformity against other men who are different. Because these men are insecure about themselves, and have no way to express it productively, they express it through anger and aggression towards others (which is more socially acceptable than expressing it about themselves).
For men, I think they probably have (as a gender) the same amount of insecurity as women do, but they can't express it because such expression is not socially acceptable. I wonder if for some men, this insecurity builds up and bubbles out as aggression and extreme conformity against other men who are different. Because these men are insecure about themselves, and have no way to express it productively, they express it through anger and aggression towards others (which is more socially acceptable than expressing it about themselves).
LizzieMaine
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The Lonely Navigator
Practically Family
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(Quote Originally Posted by C-dot:
I'm noticing in this discussion that men seem to attract more rude comments than ladies do... Is the modern male threatened by his well dressed counterpart?)
I have to agree with this. It seems like there are people that confuse 'meterosexuals' with men who simply have self respect and like to dress decently. (Not that all 'meterosexuals' are gay even.)
I'm noticing in this discussion that men seem to attract more rude comments than ladies do... Is the modern male threatened by his well dressed counterpart?)
I have to agree with this. It seems like there are people that confuse 'meterosexuals' with men who simply have self respect and like to dress decently. (Not that all 'meterosexuals' are gay even.)
Widebrim
I'll Lock Up
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I understand the association that you're pointing out, Edward, the idea that some people have about it being somehow "gay" for a man to care for his appearance. However, do you believe that if a heterosexual man does not wish to be taken for a homosexual man, that he is then automatically "homophobic" in nature? Admittedly, he could be, but do you think that such a desire automatically makes him so?
_Nightwing
One of the Regulars
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Assorted comments
Pressed Dickie's with a nice shirt shouldn't look half bad. I think you're doing the best with your workwear and that you should keep it up. They can laugh all the way to your promotion.
So true, and some women don't realize how strict the unwritten dress code of men has become. I have a whole tirade on this subject about polo shirts but I'm going to post that in the "declining standards" thread later. The short of it is, a polo shirt is... wait for it... dressy now. You're dressed up in a polo shirt. aaahahhaha It really is jeans and t-shirt only for men. Before I started wearing suits around I would wear black BDU pants - essentially simple cotton pants with pockets on them - and say a gray or brown t-shirt. All the time people would ask me why I wasn't wearing jeans. The ensemble still just wasn't good enough for them. And in case you're wondering, it's because I hate them. Yep. I hate jeans.
That's great. Don't change your style, but do try to be more violent. Bullies hate violence. Pretty much any type of person hates violence. Unfortunately that's really the only way to stop a bully, but the good part is, when the police show up and the scumbag in ill-fitting jeans and probably, let's face it, priors, tries the tell them that the guy in the three piece suit started it, who are they going to believe?
haaahaaaha. I'm using this. I'll just say copyright Edward, quietly under my breath.
That's a great candidate for the "citizen's arrest" tactic. As soon as some guy has your hat, punch him in the face and shout out that you're arresting him and for someone to call the police - then no one comes to his aid. You've got him red-handed there. Remember don't punch into the face, punch through it.
No, you just shouted at him. That's not nuts. Nuts would be turning around and jumping onto his chest and biting out part of his neck on the side and laughing through the blood. But seriously you're quite warranted to tug on something of his in return. No, it doesn't have to be his sack. You could just reach up and tug on his ear lobe. I bet that would be really annoying, and you could check with him by asking.
Yeah, I hate the condescending questions. Someone else said they didn't mind questions about their clothes, well neither do I and I'd bet you don't either. It's the condescension that's the problem. I find a good tactic here to call them out on their ploy. If they ask condescendingly why you dress that way, ask them if they don't like it. They won't say that no they don't, they'll say that they just don't understand why you're wearing that. These types have to keep their position of detached condescension. Reply by then asking them if they think it's inappropriate for where you guys are. They really won't want to answer that one either because having opinions isn't their game, only conforming and pointing out those who aren't conforming. But, if they slip up and say yes to that one, ask them what they think is appropriate.
Now they're really trapped. When you commit to an opinion, or a style of dress, you open yourself to criticism of that opinion, which you can now give them. As soon as they commit to something it's over because these types try not to commit to anything, outside of the general principle of following the herd and changing with the herd. If they say they don't know whether or not it's appropriate and that it just seems kinda weird, at this point of non-commital you can tell them you thought that they had all the answers, since they accosted you in public. If you do this right then by this point they'll be scared shitless. The main point is, never fall into their trap by defending your style. It defends itself. That's why they're coming after you in the first place - they feel your style is attacking them and everything they stand for, because it's so obviously better and they don't have the wisdom to feel admiration. If you were wearing a dirty hoodie with holes in it they wouldn't ask you these questions. They'd just feel quietly superior and move on.
Both seconded. I'm not quite middle-aged, but getting any kind of older definitely grants one more leeway with suits and hats. I also have long hair and it really does confuse people, even tied-back as I wear it. They can't write you off as a conservative, or some kind of Jehovah's witness. They don't know whether the suit or the hair is out of place, or if you're some third thing that's supposed to have both, and they're afraid to look stupid or put themselves in danger finding out. I'll be cutting mine off again soon, but I've done that twice before so I know the very different reactions to expect.
Pressed Dickie's with a nice shirt shouldn't look half bad. I think you're doing the best with your workwear and that you should keep it up. They can laugh all the way to your promotion.
So true, and some women don't realize how strict the unwritten dress code of men has become. I have a whole tirade on this subject about polo shirts but I'm going to post that in the "declining standards" thread later. The short of it is, a polo shirt is... wait for it... dressy now. You're dressed up in a polo shirt. aaahahhaha It really is jeans and t-shirt only for men. Before I started wearing suits around I would wear black BDU pants - essentially simple cotton pants with pockets on them - and say a gray or brown t-shirt. All the time people would ask me why I wasn't wearing jeans. The ensemble still just wasn't good enough for them. And in case you're wondering, it's because I hate them. Yep. I hate jeans.
That's great. Don't change your style, but do try to be more violent. Bullies hate violence. Pretty much any type of person hates violence. Unfortunately that's really the only way to stop a bully, but the good part is, when the police show up and the scumbag in ill-fitting jeans and probably, let's face it, priors, tries the tell them that the guy in the three piece suit started it, who are they going to believe?
haaahaaaha. I'm using this. I'll just say copyright Edward, quietly under my breath.
That's a great candidate for the "citizen's arrest" tactic. As soon as some guy has your hat, punch him in the face and shout out that you're arresting him and for someone to call the police - then no one comes to his aid. You've got him red-handed there. Remember don't punch into the face, punch through it.
No, you just shouted at him. That's not nuts. Nuts would be turning around and jumping onto his chest and biting out part of his neck on the side and laughing through the blood. But seriously you're quite warranted to tug on something of his in return. No, it doesn't have to be his sack. You could just reach up and tug on his ear lobe. I bet that would be really annoying, and you could check with him by asking.
Yeah, I hate the condescending questions. Someone else said they didn't mind questions about their clothes, well neither do I and I'd bet you don't either. It's the condescension that's the problem. I find a good tactic here to call them out on their ploy. If they ask condescendingly why you dress that way, ask them if they don't like it. They won't say that no they don't, they'll say that they just don't understand why you're wearing that. These types have to keep their position of detached condescension. Reply by then asking them if they think it's inappropriate for where you guys are. They really won't want to answer that one either because having opinions isn't their game, only conforming and pointing out those who aren't conforming. But, if they slip up and say yes to that one, ask them what they think is appropriate.
Now they're really trapped. When you commit to an opinion, or a style of dress, you open yourself to criticism of that opinion, which you can now give them. As soon as they commit to something it's over because these types try not to commit to anything, outside of the general principle of following the herd and changing with the herd. If they say they don't know whether or not it's appropriate and that it just seems kinda weird, at this point of non-commital you can tell them you thought that they had all the answers, since they accosted you in public. If you do this right then by this point they'll be scared shitless. The main point is, never fall into their trap by defending your style. It defends itself. That's why they're coming after you in the first place - they feel your style is attacking them and everything they stand for, because it's so obviously better and they don't have the wisdom to feel admiration. If you were wearing a dirty hoodie with holes in it they wouldn't ask you these questions. They'd just feel quietly superior and move on.
Both seconded. I'm not quite middle-aged, but getting any kind of older definitely grants one more leeway with suits and hats. I also have long hair and it really does confuse people, even tied-back as I wear it. They can't write you off as a conservative, or some kind of Jehovah's witness. They don't know whether the suit or the hair is out of place, or if you're some third thing that's supposed to have both, and they're afraid to look stupid or put themselves in danger finding out. I'll be cutting mine off again soon, but I've done that twice before so I know the very different reactions to expect.
_Nightwing
One of the Regulars
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Assorted comments II
No I think that's a great approach. There's more important things than living a long life, and I can't wait to see a Youtube video where some two hundred pound guy in a three piece suit floors five youths in a brawl. Even if you got stabbed at the end, we'd still remember you favorably here at the lounge. Or I would. Perhaps others would call you an idiot for simply holding people accountable for their disrespect instead of slinking away into the meek. Then they'd go and post about how no one's doing anything about the declining standards.
I think you're doing us all a service.
This last one's tricky, because she is a woman and there wasn't any physical contact, however she was completely out of line. Maybe a slap in the face. Maybe that's too far though. Plus you'll definitely be arrested for that. Perhaps instead then, call after her as she's walking away. "Hang on, don't you want to know whether I'm real asshole or not?" Everyone gets a laugh, you call her out, and no real harm done.
You're right of course, but it's only a free country if you defend that freedom. Good work for facing him down. I'd like to have seen it gone further, and I don't think a small can of pepper spray or a stun gun would ruin the cut of your suits.
That sir, is a cock-solid observation.
You're right you didn't. Maybe a gut punch, a quick jab to the gut, but not a full on shoulder barge. No I'm just joking, but seriously I think you should give violence a shot. Bullies really do just hate violence. You have to be mentally, and if possible physically prepared for such an occasion, but since this keeps happening to you you're already halfway there and the rest will be a great investment, and unfortunately, as I've said before, it's the only thing that's going to work with a bully. I think a good way to start would be to think what would Bogart do. Or Bond. Just pick any good example of someone whose style you admire and try to live up to their example by extending your sense of dignity past mere style and into the realm of your broader life and sense of self. Because what these people are doing to you is wrong.
In the example you gave you didn't see him coming, and that's fair enough as far as being unable to stop it, but if you're properly geared up then it certainly doesn't have to end there. You can pay for your coffee and catch up with the guy, engage him in some kind of gentle conversation and then throw the coffee in his face. Then follow up with a stamp to the knee while he's still burning. Try to stamp to the side of the knee. That's just a for-instance. I know there's a lot of other people on this forum with more experience in these matters that could help you out, and I think you need it. Right now you remind me too much of that "homework assignment" scene in Fight Club - the guys who'll go to any length to avoid a fight. No, you shouldn't have to. Yes, that seems to be the reality.
What about "No, you're dead." Yeah that wouldn't work. You'd probably get fired and maybe legal troubles to boot. But remember it for Groundhog Day.
No I think that's a great approach. There's more important things than living a long life, and I can't wait to see a Youtube video where some two hundred pound guy in a three piece suit floors five youths in a brawl. Even if you got stabbed at the end, we'd still remember you favorably here at the lounge. Or I would. Perhaps others would call you an idiot for simply holding people accountable for their disrespect instead of slinking away into the meek. Then they'd go and post about how no one's doing anything about the declining standards.
I think you're doing us all a service.
This last one's tricky, because she is a woman and there wasn't any physical contact, however she was completely out of line. Maybe a slap in the face. Maybe that's too far though. Plus you'll definitely be arrested for that. Perhaps instead then, call after her as she's walking away. "Hang on, don't you want to know whether I'm real asshole or not?" Everyone gets a laugh, you call her out, and no real harm done.
You're right of course, but it's only a free country if you defend that freedom. Good work for facing him down. I'd like to have seen it gone further, and I don't think a small can of pepper spray or a stun gun would ruin the cut of your suits.
That sir, is a cock-solid observation.
You're right you didn't. Maybe a gut punch, a quick jab to the gut, but not a full on shoulder barge. No I'm just joking, but seriously I think you should give violence a shot. Bullies really do just hate violence. You have to be mentally, and if possible physically prepared for such an occasion, but since this keeps happening to you you're already halfway there and the rest will be a great investment, and unfortunately, as I've said before, it's the only thing that's going to work with a bully. I think a good way to start would be to think what would Bogart do. Or Bond. Just pick any good example of someone whose style you admire and try to live up to their example by extending your sense of dignity past mere style and into the realm of your broader life and sense of self. Because what these people are doing to you is wrong.
In the example you gave you didn't see him coming, and that's fair enough as far as being unable to stop it, but if you're properly geared up then it certainly doesn't have to end there. You can pay for your coffee and catch up with the guy, engage him in some kind of gentle conversation and then throw the coffee in his face. Then follow up with a stamp to the knee while he's still burning. Try to stamp to the side of the knee. That's just a for-instance. I know there's a lot of other people on this forum with more experience in these matters that could help you out, and I think you need it. Right now you remind me too much of that "homework assignment" scene in Fight Club - the guys who'll go to any length to avoid a fight. No, you shouldn't have to. Yes, that seems to be the reality.
What about "No, you're dead." Yeah that wouldn't work. You'd probably get fired and maybe legal troubles to boot. But remember it for Groundhog Day.
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LizzieMaine
Bartender
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A quote from Faulkner might be more appropriate: "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
_Nightwing
One of the Regulars
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Sure. Bill and I agree on that one.
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Ironically, I ran into a friend of mine at the convenience store the other day. I had just come from work. Him, his girlfriend, and I were discussing that he is trying to find a job. She told him he needs to dress how I was dressed and be clean-shaven like I am when he goes for a job interview. I chuckled, because this is as dressed down as I get. I would likely wear a sport coat to a job interview, but that's just me.
_Nightwing
One of the Regulars
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Once again, it's telling how pretty much any normal person can spot what looks good and what looks sharp. Like what's likely to get a job in a job interview. Others might give you a hard time about it, but they all know, and I know they know, but they don't know I know they know, so they don't know how sad they come off trying to put us down.
