Does anyone have a Real McCoy AND a Buzz Rickson N-1?

[NE202DC]

I have a Real McCoy's N-1 (2022 Khaki Plain) in size 38, but I'm leaning toward buying a Buzz Rickson N-1 in Navy. Comparing the two, it looks like a size 36 in the Buzz Rickson might be a similar fit to the McCoy's 38. Can anyone who has both brands offer a size comparison between the two? I'm curious if the cuts/models could impact the fit.

Based on HPA's measuring guide, I came up with the following measurements for the McCoy's (size 38):

Chest: 21.5
Length: 25.75
Shoulder 17.5
Sleeve: 24

Based on HPA's product measurements, the BR in 36 comes in at:

Chest: 21.5
Length: 26
Shoulder: 18
Sleeve: 24

My chest measures ~37-37.5 inches, I'm 5'6", and I weigh 148 lbs. Here are some photos of the McCoy's.

 

[Aloysius]

Generally speaking (there are exceptions), BR aims to follow the original pattern (unless otherwise noted) whereas RMC aims to tweak the fit to suit their style. In practice, this means it runs small whereas you can usually order the BR in the same size as you would have in the American garment. (To be clear, this refers to the new RMC; the old RMC that went defunct was more like BR in this respect.)

With BR you can usually identify a tweaked fit because it will have "Buzz Rickson's" on the repro label and/or some label like "slender fit" or "tailored fit". RMC will have original maker labels with a new fit.

 

[NE202DC]

Generally speaking (there are exceptions), BR aims to follow the original pattern (unless otherwise noted) whereas RMC aims to tweak the fit to suit their style. In practice, this means it runs small whereas you can usually order the BR in the same size as you would have in the American garment. (To be clear, this refers to the new RMC; the old RMC that went defunct was more like BR in this respect.)

With BR you can usually identify a tweaked fit because it will have "Buzz Rickson's" on the repro label and/or some label like "slender fit" or "tailored fit". RMC will have original maker labels with a new fit.

Thanks for the info. Based on what you're saying, do the measurements I posted indicate that the BR in the 36 would be the best best of the 38 in the RMC fits well?

 

[Blackadder]

I have a Real McCoy's N-1 (2022 Khaki Plain) in size 38, but I'm leaning toward buying a Buzz Rickson N-1 in Navy. Comparing the two, it looks like a size 36 in the Buzz Rickson might be a similar fit to the McCoy's 38. Can anyone who has both brands offer a size comparison between the two? I'm curious if the cuts/models could impact the fit.

Based on HPA's measuring guide, I came up with the following measurements for the McCoy's (size 38):

Chest: 21.5
Length: 25.75
Shoulder 17.5
Sleeve: 24

Based on HPA's product measurements, the BR in 36 comes in at:

Chest: 21.5
Length: 26
Shoulder: 18
Sleeve: 24

My chest measures ~37-37.5 inches, I'm 5'6", and I weigh 148 lbs. Here are some photos of the McCoy's.

I did a comparison here on a Navy colour Buzz and RM some years ago. Unfortunately my Buzz is a size 34 so it will not help you. I assume you are talking about the cheaper regular Buzz. A regular Buzz does fit larger than a Rm in the same size but then your Khaki RM n-1 is also wider than a Navy RM N-1. AFAIK, the Buzz Demotex has a different cut.

 

[NE202DC]

I did a comparison here on a Navy colour Buzz and RM some years ago. Unfortunately my Buzz is a size 34 so it will not help you. I assume you are talking about the cheaper regular Buzz. A regular Buzz does fit larger than a Rm in the same size but then your Khaki RM n-1 is also wider than a Navy RM N-1. AFAIK, the Buzz Demotex has a different cut.

It's the non-stenciled version shown here:

https://www.historypreservation.com...-heavy-deck-jacket-non-stenciled-hpa-edition/

Based on the measurements of the Khaki RMC, I think the BR in 36 should work. Although as you point out, the cuts might be different. I may need to roll the dice and exchange it if needed.

 

[Blackadder]

It's the non-stenciled version shown here:

https://www.historypreservation.com...-heavy-deck-jacket-non-stenciled-hpa-edition/

Based on the measurements of the Khaki RMC, I think the BR in 36 should work. Although as you point out, the cuts might be different. I may need to roll the dice and exchange it if needed.

That is the more expensive Demotex version. Mine is the cheaper regular. AFAIK, the Demotex version has longer sleeves.

 

[NE202DC]

Quick update:

I went with the 36. Overall, I don't feel like it's a bad fit for a N-1, and I really like the quality. The only downside is that the armholes seem to be too high/too small and are digging into my armpits a bit. Nothing that will make me hate the jacket, but I'm curious about your thoughts on a) the overall fit and b) if sizing up might saddle me with a jacket that is too big.

Sorry for the photo quality. It's dark and gloomy in DC today.

Thanks!

 

[breezer]

RMC sizing in my experience is inconsistent. But if I wanted a blue N1, I would go with RMC

 

[CatsCan]

Armpits on N1s were designed to be quite high and quite close to your actual pits. You will notice that this gives a good movability of your arms upwards without dragging the jacket up.
I think, a bigger size will be too big overall on you.
Wear it, rove about in it and it will become a lot more comfortable like wearing in a good pair of shoes.
But, to be honest, try a smaller one, too, maybe of a diffenrent brand! I know it may sound absurd.

 

[NE202DC]

Armpits on N1s were designed to be quite high and quite close to your actual pits. You will notice that this gives a good movability of your arms upwards without dragging the jacket up.
I think, a bigger size will be too big overall on you.
Wear it, rove about in it and it will become a lot more comfortable like wearing in a good pair of shoes.
But, to be honest, try a smaller one, too! I know it may sound absurd.

I agree that going up in size would be too big. I'd have to get the sleeves shortened (I still may need to do that on the 36) and I think the length would be too long for my liking.

When I spoke with HPA, they noted that while the jacket looked crisp, it appeared to be too small, especially with the armhole situation. I'm debating if I should return it and either grab an A-2 when it is avaiable or pick up a McCoy's since that will likely fit better.

 

[NE202DC]

RMC sizing in my experience is inconsistent. But if I wanted a blue N1, I would go with RMC

I'm leaning towards snagging the RMC (or grabbing the BR A-2 if it becomes avaiable). I'm going to compare my current Khaki n-1 measurements to the Navy n-1 and see how the match up.

 

[CatsCan]

Remembering your fit issues with the A-2, I have come to think that maybe you have not yet completely set your mind to your real size as it is now after that huge weight drop. Looking at the fit pics both your A-2 and this N-1, especially where you stretch your arms out forward, makes me think! And I again conclude, that you should try a size down. The snug armpit thing is something you can get used to, but wrong placed armpits not. It will pull the jacket like in your photos. How much room do you have in the chest area when the jacket is fully buttoned up? My good fitting N1s and my "new" A-2 has room for a light wool sweater or a sweatshirt. And the sleeves end at my wrists, not in the middle of my hand. I know that HPA knows something about sizing. But your individual proportions can nevertheless make the right sizing a thing of try and error until you settle. Try one size down just to see if this helps with the fit. Sending back if not happy should be no problem. Talk to HPA about this idea.

I also suggest grabbing the cheapest original A-2 from the bay if not too beaten up, just to see, how an original would fit you and get an idea about what repro makers do different. Use it for rags afterwards or throw it back to the bay.

 

[CatsCan]

Looking again at your photos, I think it is a pretty good fit actually! It is only that one photo that seems to make it look slightly off and this is maybe only due to that specific pose, a pose you will rarely do in real life.
What about washing and wearing (I know Dry Clean only is a scary warning against, but you know...)? I bet it will mould to your body pretty well.

 

[NE202DC]

Remembering your fit issues with the A-2, I have come to think that maybe you have not yet completely set your mind to your real size as it is now after that huge weight drop. Looking at the fit pics both your A-2 and this N-1, especially where you stretch your arms out forward, makes me think! And I again conclude, that you should try a size down. The snug armpit thing is something you can get used to, but wrong placed armpits not. It will pull the jacket like in your photos. How much room do you have in the chest area when the jacket is fully buttoned up? My good fitting N1s and my "new" A-2 has room for a light wool sweater or a sweatshirt. And the sleeves end at my wrists, not in the middle of my hand. I know that HPA knows something about sizing. But your individual proportions can nevertheless make the right sizing a thing of try and error until you settle. Try one size down just to see if this helps with the fit. Sending back if not happy should be no problem. Talk to HPA about this idea.

I also suggest grabbing the cheapest original A-2 from the bay if not too beaten up, just to see, how an original would fit you and get an idea about what repro makers do different. Use it for rags afterwards or throw it back to the bay.

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective that the armholes are too small, so I should go bigger. One of the issues with sleeves and length is that I'm short and stocky-ish (or used to be overall), so I usually have issues with sleeves and body lengths. I have the same problem with button-downs, knits and tees, which is why I've found it best to stick with certain brands (UES, Mister Freedom, Homespun, etc.).

As for the chest, I have ample room in my McCoy's, the IH I returned, and the IH A2 (but that has other sizing issues). With the BR N1, it feels a bit tighter. When I tried it on with a sweater, it wasn't terrible in the chest, but the shoulders and armholes glfelt tighter. I've attached some images of the IH and McCoy's N1 below--I didn't have any issues with the armhole with these two. I feel like the IH was a good "modern" fit, and the McCoy's was a solid more traditional fit (although the sleeves are still a bit long).

So you think that it is more armhole placement issue? And that possibly sizing down might actually resolve it, assuming it is a better placement?

 

[NE202DC]

Looking again at your photos, I think it is a pretty good fit actually! It is only that one photo that seems to make it look slightly off and this is maybe only due to that specific pose, a pose you will rarely do in real life.
What about washing and wearing (I know Dry Clean only is a scary warning against, but you know...)? I bet it will mould to your body pretty well.

Looking again at your photos, I think it is a pretty good fit actually! It is only that one photo that seems to make it look slightly off and this is maybe only due to that specific pose, a pose you will rarely do in real life.
What about washing and wearing (I know Dry Clean only is a scary warning against, but you know...)? I bet it will mould to your body pretty well.

Sorry, I posted that length reply before seeing your reply. I definitely don't hate the fit. My concern was the armholes or shoulders could be an issue. The sleeves...well, the sleeves are always going to be an issue. I just need to find a trusted tailor to sort that for me.

I attached a couple more photos below. The outdoor ones have natural light and might be an indicator of my natural "poses." The indoor ones have me wearing a layer (heavyweight flannel) under it. I guess the question now is whether the McCoy's or the BR is the better fit.

 

[Canuck Panda]

If arm hole already feels tight and shoulder already feel tight, don't size down.
Sleeves can always be brought in an inch so can the torso width.

Deck jackets aren't slim fitting cuts by default. The only way to get the Insta look but still functional is to have a competent tailor do a bit of nip n tuck sleeve and torso taper.

 

[CatsCan]

So you think that it is more armhole placement issue? And that possibly sizing down might actually resolve it, assuming it is a better placement?

That's what I think is worth trying out.

 

[CatsCan]

Canuck Panda is right, for an optimal fit a tailor is the right way to go. But this adds to the costs remarkebly. I have a good old tailor who is surprisingly cheap when you'd look at what he is capable of. But be aware, there are many tailors who mess things up! When altering sleeves AND torso, the armhole and the shoulders have to be altered also, the sleeve has to be set new. These jackets are extremely well put together, double stitching (and not the fake ones) all over. This is a job for the more elaborate tailors and can easily cost a hell lot of money. The lining has to be altered, too, otherwise it would bunch up everywhere. In short, the jacket would have to be taken apart in pieces, re-cut and put back together. Imagine!

 

[breezer]

Buying an expensive jacket without trying on is always a gamble. Plus the premium price raises expectations, which are often not met. I think Catscan and I agreed on the deck jacket thread that one is better off going for the cheaper brands when it comes to N1’s. To be honest, at a glance it’s hard to tell the difference between a £100 N1 and a £1000 N1. The humble Levi’s N1 in navy blue can be bought pre owned for around £50 and it looks every bit as good as the RMC version that’ll cost you 10 times as much.

 

[CatsCan]

Buzz Rickson as you model it in your latest photos is looking the best imo. It looks like an N1 should look like if you ask me. Look at the photos of the P-Boat sailors in the other thread (The Deck Jacket Thread). If you keep the Buzz, a good tailor should easily be able to shorten the sleeves to a thumbs width below the wrist. The rest of the jacket looks good on you.