Does anyone have a Real McCoy AND a Buzz Rickson N-1?

[CatsCan]

buy the civilian a2

The one I linked is NOT a civilian A2. It is actually Navy issue. It's the real thing. Very warm. It is the successor of the older N-1. The N-1 was faded out about 1960 and the A-2 took it's place. It's the modernized variant of the Navy Cold Weather Jacket.

 

[CatsCan]

So-Sew Styles, who made that A-2 was one of the many contractors of the Government. Their Army issued M-65 belong to the best along with the Alpha back in the days (not to be mistaken for modern day's Alpha).
So, don't think, the A-2 is inferior to the N-1. It just is the evolution step from the mid 60s onward.

 

[CatsCan]

Mine is from Vanderbilt. Also one of the good contractors.

 

[NE202DC]

The one I linked is NOT a civilian A2. It is actually Navy issue. It's the real thing. Very warm. It is the successor of the older N-1. The N-1 was faded out in the 60s and the A-2 took it's place. It's the modernized variant of the Navy Cold Weather Jacket.

No, I realize that. I wanted one of each--an olive drab, like the version you sent, and the civilian in blue, similar to what BR produces. I'm going to grab the one you linked.

 

[CatsCan]

I'm going to grab the one you linked.

Good!

 

[CatsCan]

This is the rare blue A-2, Vietnam era. Claimed to be Navy issue.

And this is the later flame resistant Aramid Jacket

Civilian in this case did not necessarily mean not military related. There were civilian branches tightly connected to the military. I don't know why the blue, although rare - are almost always regarded as non military. I have read otherwise. But don't know for sure. Perhaps Blacky can chime in here...

 

[NE202DC]

This is the rare blue A-2, Vietnam era. Claimed to be Navy issue.

View attachment 580303

And this is the later flame resistant Aramid Jacket

View attachment 580304

Civilian in this case did not necessarily mean not military related. There were civilian branches tightly connected to the military. I don't know why the blue, although rare - are almost always regarded as non military. I have read otherwise. But don't know for sure. Perhaps Blacky can chime in here...

I really like the look of these jackets. Perusing ebay, I don't see many. It looks Bronson makes a stenciled version and BR has a model as well

 

[CatsCan]

I really like the look of these jackets. Perusing ebay, I don't see many. It looks Bronson makes a stenciled version and BR has a model as well

Why buy a repro A-2 when near as new condition originals are widely availlable for less money. If you want a good N-1 or the A-2 variant in jungle cloth, or early 60s A-2 with pointed pocket flap, there is now way around good repros, because good condition originals are extremely rare and cost more. But the standard A-2? No way, the repros can beat the originals, fitwise, qualitywise, pricewise.

 

[CatsCan]

I hope you don't belong to those who, when offered two identical stones, one for ten, the other for 50, choose the one that cost 50, just because it must be better since it was more expensive.

 

[CatsCan]

short: If I want a standard A-2, I'd rather buy original, not repro.
N-1 and the rarer types A-2 I am depending on good repros. But good is not always only materials and sewing. Fit and look plays a huge role for me. I only achieved the look and fit I always wanted, only after I got the N-1 which is my No 2 in the series of photos. In this jacket I can look pretty much like the sailors I have so many photographs of. And I mean those with a nice fitting one. There are lots with less good fitting ones, since they had to grab, what they were handed out in a rush. My life is not depending on these jackets. Sometimes I have to do jobs in extreme weather conditions in Scandinavia. Would you see me in an N-1 there? No. I have modern technical clothing systems for those occasions.

 

[NE202DC]

short: If I want a standard A-2, I'd rather buy original, not repro.
N-1 and the rarer types A-2 I am depending on good repros. But good is not always only materials and sewing. Fit and look plays a huge role for me. I only achieved the look and fit I always wanted, only after I got the N-1 which is my No 2 in the series of photos. In this jacket I can look pretty much like the sailors I have so many photographs of. And I mean those with a nice fitting one. There are lots with less good fitting ones, since they had to grab, what they were handed out in a rush. My life is not depending on these jackets. Sometimes I have to do jobs in extreme weather conditions in Scandinavia. Would you see me in an N-1 there? No. I have modern technical clothing systems for those occasions.

Is the civilian/blue A-2 considered to be a rarer version that I'd be better off getting a repro, should I choose to do so in the future?

 

[CatsCan]

I think this is going back and forth now. And since it is so specific of an issue and for only one single person and since it is not likely that there are many others who will run into the same problems with these jackets and could eventually benefit from this discussion, I suggest continuing when the next jacket has arrived and starting a new thread about it's fit should the thread opener wish.
I have deleted my series of fit pics with my Deck Jackets, because the thread opener has seen them and we have discussed what he would like best for his jacket to fit. This has no longer any relevance here.

There are parts of this thread now, which no longer make sense since my fit pics are deleted now, but the other parts, especially the ones created by the thread opener with fit pics of the jackets in question may still be helpful.

 

[Blackadder]

This is the rare blue A-2, Vietnam era. Claimed to be Navy issue.

View attachment 580303

And this is the later flame resistant Aramid Jacket

View attachment 580304

Civilian in this case did not necessarily mean not military related. There were civilian branches tightly connected to the military. I don't know why the blue, although rare - are almost always regarded as non military. I have read otherwise. But don't know for sure. Perhaps Blacky can chime in here...

The first one is a Navy Utility jacket (nicknamed N-4 by some but officially the N-4 designation belongs to its predecessor the WW2 era USN jacket similar to the Army M41) not an A-2. It has cotton shell without the blanket lining and no side straps. Yes it is issued. The second as you have stated has a aramid (nomex) shell also issued around the time the Services turn to nomex for its flame-resistant property.

 

[CatsCan]

You are right, thanks for your help!

 

[NE202DC]

His sleeves are so much too long while the rest fits, that this is not an option. Actually the sleeves on N-1 Jackets are rather not the easiest to alter. You have to undo the knit cuffs, shorten the fur liner, re-attach the knit cuffs, shorten the sleeve, re-do the attachment to the knit cuff inside. For all this, you have to open the double stitching until above the knits and sew it back together, ideally again with double stitching. To not ruin the taper and end up with a wider sleeve opening at the new cuff, you would have to tailor a new taper into the sleeve. Low end tailoring it may be but there is definiteley no low end construction involved. We are talking about a 700 $ Jacket, so this has to be done flawless to not ruin the value too much.

There are many tailors who don't look at it from the value perspective, but think practically and do a job, which would be good enough for the avarage jackets most people bring in, mall street jackets that have no re-sale value after all. When you tell them about the value and that you strive to preserve a high re-sale value, most will refuse to do the job. It is just not economically meaningful for them to take in such an order. And I would not let them cut into a Real McCoys. There are tailors who know how to do it well. But you have to know them.

I have a 85 years old tailor in our next village, he is in the fourth generation of tailors in his family, his great grandfather had no workshop but rode from Farm to farm, doing mending and tailoring jobs on the spot. My tailor can do things many can not. Half a year ago he fell from a ladder (he has doves), his little finger remained stuck at the top of the ladder. Looking at his hand with his little finger ripped off, bleeding, he decided it would be a good idea to have a doctor looking at it. So he walked through the village and stepped into the doctors reception and politely asked, if he could have the doc looking at it. The receptionist was shocked and immediately phoned for the ambulance. He told me later, he was surprised, that they drove him to the city to a real hospital! The city he talked about is only 15 minutes from this village. When I had my last tailoring job done by him, he still had his hand bandaged. I asked him, why he didn't call the ambulance? H said, he did not think it was important enough. Asked, how he could still work, his answer was: I have a sewing machine! And laughed.
Those guys slowely die out.

I'll post one last item and let the thread die out since I think I've received all the info I currently need (a big thank you, especially to @CatsCan ). Since we were discussing how the sleeves would be shortened on a jacket like this, my tailor sent me the following video explaining their process:

https://imgur.com/a/LiWHO0J

 

[CatsCan]

She knows what she is doing. That's how my tailor did it, too. Except, he tapered the sleeve and reduced it's bulk. It has to be said, that mine was a Pike Brothers N-1 that is notorious for having extra wide and bulky sleeves. Don't know how necessary this would be on your RMC though. But if you should want the sleeves to be tapered a bit towards the cuff (since the cuff is higher now, the opening will be wider, too, although just a little), this would be the chance to have this done since the tailor is already at it. This would mean opening and re-doing the double stitch up to the elbow, though. Let us know how much your tailor charges for this as this is interestening for others, too.

Thanks for sharing!
Good luck!

 

[CatsCan]

But, looking at the position she shows where she plans to shorten it, are you sure that this is enough? Looks like she is only planning for an inch.

 

[CatsCan]

This is a valuable video for all who think about if they could let their sleeves done on their N-1 without messing it up.
Looks she does not cut off something from the outer material, just tucks it under and fix it with a seam. So this can later be undone if it is going to be sold to someone with longer arms. Do you keep the Alpaca cutoff? If so, this could also be re-attached to it's former place later and the whole alteration nearly made undone. Bravo!

 

[NE202DC]

She knows what she is doing. That's how my tailor did it, too. Except, he tapered the sleeve and reduced it's bulk. It has to be said, that mine was a Pike Brothers N-1 that is notorious for having extra wide and bulky sleeves. Don't know how necessary this would be on your RMC though. But if you should want the sleeves to be tapered a bit towards the cuff (since the cuff is higher now, the opening will be wider, too, although just a litlle), this would be the chance to have this done since the tailor is already opening the sleeve. Let us know how much your tailor charges for this as this is interestening for others, too.

Thanks for sharing!
Good luck!

I asked them about tapering and they said they did not think it would be necessary. However, I have until Thursday to make any additional requests, ask questions, or cancel the job. They quoted me $150 due to the nature of the job. I'm not sure if that's DC pricing (everything here costs more) or if that's average. That being said, I went to one of the more highly rated and respected shops in the area.

 

[NE202DC]

This is a valuable video for all who think about if they could let their sleeves done on their N-1 without messing it up.
Looks she does not cut off something from the outer material, just tucks it under and fix it with a seam. So this can later be undone if it is going to be sold to someone with longer arms. Do you keep the Alpaca cutoff? If so, this could also be re-attached to it's former place later and the whole alteration nearly made undone. Bravo!

I'll make sure to ask about keeping the excess materials, including the alpaca. They told that they've been doing this their entire life and if they couldn't keep the integrity of the jacket, they would have turned down the job. I'll keep everyone updated on how the finish product turns out.