Documentary idea on this culture

[tmitchell59]

Nice to hear my name mentioned.

My guess is there are people unknown with massive collections of leather jackets. Maybe just a fantasy of mine.

Sounds like an interesting project and a huge undertaking.

You will need to get a focus, create an outline.

History of the leather industry
Leather styles: Civilian, Military, Motorcycle
Collecting/hoarding old and new jackets.

David Himel has done some interesting interviews on his involvement. Ken Calder too.

Human interest angle.

May have to end up in Japan.

 

[ton312]

I think my story would be more akin to those people who eat drywall or can't leave the house because thy fear they've left the lights or the stove on. Maybe if you black me out and change my voice like those folks in witness protection...

 

[Mysteryo]

Great idea!

 

[regius]

Keep 'em coming guys! Yes, a trip to Terry's leather museum...
Good stuff!
Anyone speak Japanese?
We also need airfare to Greece

I have friends who are Japanese, can hire them to translate.

 

[regius]

I think my story would be more akin to those people who eat drywall or can't leave the house because thy fear they've left the lights or the stove on. Maybe if you black me out and change my voice like those folks in witness protection...

I think that's doable, just adds more to the characters of our main protagonists. I already drafted a story line.

 

[Lebowski]

I think my story would be more akin to those people who eat drywall or can't leave the house because thy fear they've left the lights or the stove on. Maybe if you black me out and change my voice like those folks in witness protection...

No worries, you're not alone my brother!)

 

[Lebowski]

I already drafted a story line.

Wow Reg, sounds promising!

 

[dannyk]

I’d be in! But kind of agree with @Carlos840 speaking to the makers about what got them involved in making jackets. Some of their techniques and specialisties would be fascinating. But you might want to stay away from the drama cause then BK will end up suing you! Haha. But really I wouldn’t it could lead to drama for yourself. Then the focus on us fanatics and what got us hooked and why, and what we’re looking for.

 

[Guppy]

Along the storyline of makers, I have the option to spice it up a bit by showing the antagonistic positions among the makers (read: LW/BK vs Aero, Eastman vs Aero).


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I would absolutely be against this. Too many documentary makers have a story in mind and go out to film that story, when what a true documentarian should do is go out and document the world as they find it, and find the stories (plural) and weave them together in an honest way as free of bias as possible, and disclosing bias where unavailable.

Amping up rivalries and controversies is thought to sell. But so too does it also fragment communities and create villains where none are needed.

People acting like a-holes gets attention, but we're supposed to be gentlemen here, and we flipping well should represent ourselves like it, and show ourselves in a way that is respectful to ourselves, each other, and the truth.

I don't want any part of a documentary that takes the tract of "we're not normal." No. We're interesting. We're passionate. We're interested in a topic. It's not everyone's thing. But I don't need to justify myself to anyone, or apologize, or feel ashamed for being enthusiastic about what I like.

 

[regius]

Like any good sports documentary, animal documentary, what make them interesting & worth watching & inspiring is how the “things” reflect & make the human pop & meaningful. Be it people go fanatic on stamps or jackets, the questions explored are about the people. Of course, in the case of any collection, the film maker is obligated to also explore the intrinsic appeal of the thing itself.


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[regius]

I would absolutely be against this. Too many documentary makers have a story in mind and go out to film that story, when what a true documentarian should do is go out and document the world as they find it, and find the stories (plural) and weave them together in an honest way as free of bias as possible, and disclosing bias where unavailable.

Amping up rivalries and controversies is thought to sell. But so too does it also fragment communities and create villains where none are needed.

People acting like a-holes gets attention, but we're supposed to be gentlemen here, and we flipping well should represent ourselves like it, and show ourselves in a way that is respectful to ourselves, each other, and the truth.

I don't want any part of a documentary that takes the tract of "we're not normal." No. We're interesting. We're passionate. We're interested in a topic. It's not everyone's thing. But I don't need to justify myself to anyone, or apologize, or feel ashamed for being enthusiastic about what I like.

“We are not normal” is a perfectly normal & reasonable possibility, I’m certainly not going to angle it in this one way & show a world of what I think are abnormal people, it’s one of the many questions the objective documentarian has to ask. It sounds to me you want to make a conscious choice of painting this phenomenon in rainbow colors, I’d say this is pretty biased wouldn’t you say? What you said in the first half of your post & at the end contradict each other. Let me put it clearly here, it is tempting to make the film about love & beauty, but I even have to resist that, because as you said yourself, it is to sell. Just as much as creating villains. On the other hand, the world wants story and conflicts, it has nothing to do with selling, it is how our brains are wired. So I’m going to make a very balanced choice between objectivity, thoroughness, & storytelling. Nobody wants to watch a film version of Rin Tanaka’s book & I’m not wasting my time making one.


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[AeroFan_07]

I'm really liking this idea and would love to be part of it as well. FWIW there's a little collection in a place very close to my house, with some household names hsoting it...http://www.antiquearchaeology.com/

I would imagine those folks would have some thoughts on how to make a great documentary. +1 to including the Terry Mitchell museum in this episode! We're a unique bunch,a nd there are many others like us who've never found this group yet.

 

[jacketjunkie]

A few thoughts...

1. You will have to set a focus. You can impossibly include all makers and their drama on top of it plus interviewing collectors like us. You'll end up with 200 hours of material and your docu will go down as "Heaven's Gate 2: Leather mess".

2. Once you have decided what you want to focus on, you need a clear outline, this documentary has to start somewhere and go somewhere. I agree with @tmitchell59 that it's probably a good idea to start with military and civil jackets of the 40s and 50s, the makers, the designs, the collectors. After that, pick two or three american/european repro makers (find objective criteria for whom to pick, like size of company, time they have been around, popularity in the scene.. I feel Schott should be included as they are the perfect example having been around since the 50s or what, then probably Aero and maybe Vanson) and show how they are recreating those old styles for enthusiasts and/or style their modern jackets after those 50s jackets (-> interview another few collecterse here who are more focused on new stuff, not the old originals). And it should indeed probably end up with the fashion culture in Japan and all the makers there and how the styles of the past you started with are revived and cherished as the timeless classics they are. That way your docu has a conclusive arc. And if you do just that, you already have a 3h++ docu, with just 2-3 makers and no drama.

3. Think about how you can make this interesting to someone who isnt registered on this forum. Consider including backstories about famous celebrities who wore classic jackets and inspired fashion and the pop culture they shaped. This will make it more compelling and interesting to people who are not as obsessed with leather jackets as the few nutjobs as us around here. Talk about Brando's The Wild One, James Deans Cal Leather jacket, rockstars who wore perfectos, (nice introfuction to Ken Calder too) etc, etc. Because that will make the docu interesting to all those peoples fans too. And in fact, I don't think you can talk about leather jackets without talking about why people want those jackets and there's no answer to that which doesnt include Marlon Brando.

Title it accordingly. Like "The leather jacket: its history and influence on the pop culture since the 1950s" but in fancier words.

 

[ton312]

There are also lots of unique pursuits in the hobby itself. There are those obsessed with the heavy weights, the meticulous detail oriented crew, the vintage purists....it goes on and on. The different perspectives would be interesting to here voiced rather than typed.

 

[Monitor]

I would absolutely be against this. Too many documentary makers have a story in mind and go out to film that story, when what a true documentarian should do is go out and document the world as they find it, and find the stories (plural) and weave them together in an honest way as free of bias as possible, and disclosing bias where unavailable.

Amping up rivalries and controversies is thought to sell. But so too does it also fragment communities and create villains where none are needed.

People acting like a-holes gets attention, but we're supposed to be gentlemen here, and we flipping well should represent ourselves like it, and show ourselves in a way that is respectful to ourselves, each other, and the truth.

I don't want any part of a documentary that takes the tract of "we're not normal." No. We're interesting. We're passionate. We're interested in a topic. It's not everyone's thing. But I don't need to justify myself to anyone, or apologize, or feel ashamed for being enthusiastic about what I like.

Well said.

And yeah, that negative stuff shouldn't be mentioned as it never truly affected the community. There's really nothing negative about this scene. Whatever happened between certain makers isn't what this documentary should be about. This is a very positive scene, regardless of the for the most part friendly bickering about I dunno, Japanese vs. western makers. Heritage clothes people are nice people. That's why it's nice to hang out here. Some other crowds that are into collecting stuff are poisonous to the extreme. Antique firearms scene, for instance... There's some extremely scummy behavior happening there.

 

[breezer]

There was an excellent series on UK tv recently - the episode I saw was basically a 30 minute film of a guy making a knife from start to finish, no music, no voices - just beautiful shots of the guy making something from scratch. I could probably watch something like that - its nice to see a craft executed in close up. My advice is to pick a narrow angle, one topic and explore it.....like the cross zip, or the A2. 15 minutes. done. Oh and don't underestimate how tricky getting copyright clearance for other peoples images or music is. Good luck!

 

[Monitor]

There was an excellent series on UK tv recently - the episode I saw was basically a 30 minute film of a guy making a knife from start to finish, no music, no voices - just beautiful shots of the guy making something from scratch. I could probably watch something like that - its nice to see a craft executed in close up. My advice is to pick a narrow angle, one topic and explore it.....like the cross zip, or the A2. 15 minutes. done. Oh and don't underestimate how tricky getting copyright clearance for other peoples images or music is. Good luck!

But this would be a documentary about the people, the fans, not the subject of their (our) obsession. Like that documentary about hats. But I don't think a documentary about what we find interesting will actually be interesting. Otherwise, this forum'd have a lot more members. Truth is, nobody really cares about our silly jackets. Except for us and that's what makes this whole thing special.

 

[regius]

What I have found very beautiful about us members/jacket collectors here is that (most of us) are very self-aware, & we are open about it, we quickly see pass the judgmental aspects and just focus on the hobby itself, this value-neutral consensus is a very important theme to showcase. Regarding the makers, the way to frame it is not the simplistic, American comic book hero & villain that one whole entity has to embody, but it is about an intense pursuit of perfection & ideal. Through this pursuit, each maker would struggle with “villains” from within & overcome. It’s not about one maker trash the other, but each makers deep emotional investment & pursuit for perfection (LW is just an highly convicted maker who believes in his interpretation of history, same as GW).


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[handymike]

I plan on bringing an Oliver Stone level of bias to this "documentary"....

 

[Guppy]

“We are not normal” is a perfectly normal & reasonable possibility, I’m certainly not going to angle it in this one way & show a world of what I think are abnormal people, it’s one of the many questions the objective documentarian has to ask. It sounds to me you want to make a conscious choice of painting this phenomenon in rainbow colors, I’d say this is pretty biased wouldn’t you say? What you said in the first half of your post & at the end contradict each other. Let me put it clearly here, it is tempting to make the film about love & beauty, but I even have to resist that, because as you said yourself, it is to sell. Just as much as creating villains. On the other hand, the world wants story and conflicts, it has nothing to do with selling, it is how our brains are wired. So I’m going to make a very balanced choice between objectivity, thoroughness, & storytelling. Nobody wants to watch a film version of Rin Tanaka’s book & I’m not wasting my time making one.


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Hey, regius. Let me back up, first, and say that I'm not against the idea of doing a documentary on collecting vintage leather jackets, the history of the different makers we venerate here, and some of the personalities who make up this community. I think all of that is fine.

What I object to is the "we're not normal" angle, and the idea of playing up/amping the controversies/drama.

I don't particularly care if someone thinks I'm normal. Sure, I own something like 30-40 leather jackets, last I counted. And that's definitely outside of normal. But does that make ME not normal? I don't think so. It's something unusual and interesting about me. But I'm a pretty normal guy.

I happen to have a hobby, and I happen to spend a lot of money on it. If you put it in those terms, there's millions of people out there who are like me. They might have a different hobby. But people spend lots of money on hobbies, and that's not abnormal.

If a friend wants to kid me about owning too many leather jackets, I'm certainly not going to take umbrage, and I'll make fun of myself sometimes. It frankly is pretty ridiculous how many jackets I own, and I don't have a problem admitting it, or talking about it with other junkies who understand. But the way you put it in your pitch post just rubbed me the wrong way, like the documentary you had in mind was to create a spectacle, or play up the "freak" or "leather daddy" angle.

I'm not a "leather daddy" type, and I'm really pretty normal in most respects. A bit more open-minded than most, but that makes me a nicer person than most. I have a lot of leather jackets because A) They're cool, B) I like wearing them, C) I like variety, D) I have gotten interested in them and finding out what I like firsthand by trying on a lot of different ones, learning about things like design, fit, style, materials, period-correct hardware, and so on, and E) I enjoy finding good bargains.

Jay Leno owns a fleet of amazing cars, and it's not normal, but when you watch Jay Leno's Garage, he's presented as a affable, successful, somewhat eccentric maybe enthusiast who knows a LOT about old cars and motorcycles and loves them and loves to share his knowledge and show off his collection and bring in experts to talk about this and that. It's done completely respectfully, and the beauty of his cars and the appreciation for their history is plenty to drive viewership. He doesn't need to go looking for controversy. Maybe he'll talk about "Ford vs. Chevy" or "Ferrari vs. Lamborghini" but it's clear that he loves and respects all his classic cars, and that these are friendly sort of rivalries. Jay's a multi-millionaire and a celebrity, and that's not normal, but he's basically a regular guy.

Now, you could take all the money that gets spent on producing Jay Leno's Garage, and put it in your pocket, and then go to the zoo for $10 and film monkeys throwing feces at each other, upload it to YouTube, and probably get about as many hits. And maybe you could go to a vintage car show and film two drunk a-holes screaming at each other about what brand of wax is correct for chrome vs. paint. But I'd rather watch an actual documentary about classic cars that focuses on the cars informs, instead of pretending superficially to be about cars when it's really about "personalities" who collect cars, and the stupid fights they get into.

Let's say there's a real weirdo on the forum who has a highly unusual lifestyle, someone like, say Lemmy Kilmister (RIP LEMMY!) who sleeps 2 hours a night, drinks a fifth of vodka before breakfast, and collects Nazi memorabilia wazoo, or I dunno, an actual heat-to-toe-Langlitz leather daddy straight out of a casting call for Police Academy. It'd be real easy to play up what a weirdo they are, and use that as an audience hook. But it's cheap, and probably not respectful to the subject who agreed to be in your film. Maybe they're really weird and maybe that's also interesting, and if so maybe do a side documentary about them, but that's not why I'm interested in them vis a vie my involvement with TFL. I'm interested in them because they share an interest in high quality leather jackets, and because they have deep knowledge about them, and good taste. We might disagree from time to time about this and that, but I've never had anything I'd call hateful exchanged between me and someone else here over a "matter of taste" dispute. However interesting someone from here might be in whatever other aspects of their life you might want to delve into, I'm here to talk and learn about vintage and high end repro leather jackets.

In my opinion, that's all the angle you need to make a good documentary. You don't have to play up how we're freaks who can't stop buying expensive jackets we don't need even after our closets are overflowing like we're deranged sick people who need an intervention. We can joke about it here, but like if someone jokes about my brother who I am allowed to make fun of, they're going to answer to me.

All I'm suggesting is that if you're inviting people to be a subject in a film that you're creating, that you give them respect and present them honestly.

There's no need to "amp" controversy that could stir up real bad blood where there isn't any. There's no need to paint us in rainbow shades, either. By all means, talk about Alexander Leathers/Simmons Bilt's troubled history. Talk about whether Schott made Marlon Brando's Wild One jacket or whether it was Durable or someone else. Talk about the Aero Storse scandal. Talk about how Stu is kindof out-there, and how his website is itself a vintage throwback to the way websites used to be built in the 1990s.

In short, honor the truth. Just present it honestly. Go looking for interesting facts, and present them in a cohesive manner that makes for an interesting documentary. Don't go looking to stir up something and try to get people to start fighting one another about this maker vs. that maker, or whatever, and get that on film. That's all I ask. Just the unvarrnished truth, and trust that your subject matter is interesting to the audience that's interested in it without the need to dress it up in a bunch of fake, manufactured drama, the way just about every "reality" TV show does, which makes me sick to my stomach. Don't take people's words out of context and edit them to make the film more interesting at the expense of their reputation or making them say appear to be saying something they didn't really say.