Do you think there could be a second Great Depression?

[Undertow]

I think this portion is the most telling part of the entire article, "'We’ve been absent for so long, we decided why don’t we try it and see what happens?' said Andy Rubin, the Google executive..."

It's a form of marketing. Nothing more. No loyalty to this country or interest in our workers. It's an experiment. These Google executives have as much warmth to "Made in America" as a group of lab coats have warmth for the squealing rhesus monkey they're dismembering.

I think John made a good point about loyalty. I think for capitalism to work well (not necessarily efficiently), company owners need to have some kind of loyalty - loyalty to their employees, loyalty to their customers and loyalty to the country who offers them the bounty of resources and labor. Whether you're a mom-and-pop grocery store keeping the neigborhood fed, or Acme Widgets, Inc., the seeds you sew will be the harvest you reap. There's nothing wrong with buying things from other countries, or having items manufactured elsewhere, but corporations and consumers are currently on a blind tear through the world's resources without care for who/what/where/when/why or how the product is produced.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's a form of marketing. Nothing more. No loyalty to this country or interest in our workers. It's an experiment. These Google executives have as much warmth to "Made in America" as a group of lab coats have warmth for the squealing rhesus monkey they're dismembering.

Exactly. And Lazarus is supposed to be grateful for the crumbs falling from the rich man's table.

Remember the whole Wal Mart campaign about "Made In The USA" back in the '90s? Wonder whatever happened to that.

 

[Undertow]

Very true. There wouldn't have been a need for the labor movements if businesses treated employees like family.

Although I agree as far as the need to strike in that era, I think some (read "at least one") of the labor movements were coaxed into their positions by the national tides.

Fred Maytag, with his own money, built rail lines, parks, schools, car dealerships, banks and basically all of Newton, IA for his employees, which numbered over 9,000 - this being the mid and late 1930's when people were starving and looking for work and when Newton, IA was nothing more than a loosely formed farm town east of the capitol. In mid 1937, he brought everyone together and told them he'd need to cut wages by 10% until business picked back up. His workers, spurned by the labor revolts around the country and specifically the Emerson strike in St. Louis, and also peeved by the Maytag near-monopoly in Newton, went on strike.

I don't agree with how F. Maytag broke the strike - using military - but it was a peaceful resolution and the company thrived thereafter (until they were sold up the river to Whirlpool).

My point is that folks in Newton worked for a good company and a good owner, but they saw what was happening all around and decided to strike anyway. I don't think they were justified in striking in this instance. I'm not saying they were treated fairly all around, or that there weren't problems, but I think they were merely feeding off the energy of the times and using it as an excuse to strike.

 

[Undertow]

Exactly. And Lazarus is supposed to be grateful for the crumbs falling from the rich man's table.

Remember the whole Wal Mart campaign about "Made In The USA" back in the '90s? Wonder whatever happened to that.

Haha, yes! I do remember that. What a crock! There were a few clothing items and a couple cheap appliances for sale with big MADE IN AMERICA stickers attached. Sales slumped and those items went right into the trash. I remember a woman holding a Faded Glory brand shirt that had an American flag print and she said, "I thought these was suppose to be made in America - but this'n here says Chinese!" and I was thinking, "Oh you poor, dumb fool..."

 

[sheeplady]

Exactly. And Lazarus is supposed to be grateful for the crumbs falling from the rich man's table.

Remember the whole Wal Mart campaign about "Made In The USA" back in the '90s? Wonder whatever happened to that.

Sam died.

I seriously believe that Walmart would be an entirely different corporation today if he was still alive and in charge. As little as I like Walmart (even back then) he had original employees still working in his first store for more than 25+ years. That's very low turnover for retail, and suggests a little about what it was like to work directly for him. Not that I'd want to stake a claim on him being a good boss, but I've never known a bad retail store that can hold onto employees for more than a few years at most.

 

[1961MJS]

...As little as I like Walmart (even back then) he had original employees still working in his first store for more than 25+ years. That's very low turnover for retail, and suggests a little about what it was like to work directly for him. Not that I'd want to stake a claim on him being a good boss, but I've never known a bad retail store that can hold onto employees for more than a few years at most.

Hi

Several of my high school classmates work at Walmart in Illinois and have for 20 plus years. Best benefits that they ever had. it's not 1970's era Ford or GM, but then these weren't available in downstate Illinois anyway.

Later

 

[Undertow]

I'll tell you what, I'm not at liberty to provide many details, so if this disagrees with any particular notions go ahead and ignore me -

...but I will say that I would NEVER want their health insurance. Wal-Mart administers their own benefits and claims thru a third party (aka. Aetna, United Health, Cigna, etc.) and because Wal-Mart is in charge of claims paying/denying, they have a curious tendency to deny ALL claims until an employee fills out exhaustive paperwork regarding pre-existing conditions. I promise it ain't pretty, and I don't envy those poor people. I'm sure it's only a calculated percentage of their workforce, but an unecessary percentage nonetheless.

 

[sheeplady]

I'll tell you what, I'm not at liberty to provide many details, so if this disagrees with any particular notions go ahead and ignore me -

...but I will say that I would NEVER want their health insurance. Wal-Mart administers their own benefits and claims thru a third party (aka. Aetna, United Health, Cigna, etc.) and because Wal-Mart is in charge of claims paying/denying, they have a curious tendency to deny ALL claims until an employee fills out exhaustive paperwork regarding pre-existing conditions. I promise it ain't pretty, and I don't envy those poor people. I'm sure it's only a calculated percentage of their workforce, but an unecessary percentage nonetheless.

I hate to say this, but that's often common if you deal directly with the insurance company and they pay out your benefits. When my father was hospitalized in 2005, his paperwork took him over 2 days to originally fill out, and then countless days spent on the phone, resending letters, etc. This was before they started denying things. It is a known strategy of insurance companies to deny you coverage, it is not just a walmart strategy. The bigger the claim, the stronger the denial.

It took my father 2 years to straighten everything out. The insurance company insisted until near the end that he didn't have an IV on the final day he was hospitalized, despite hospital records, the hospital bills, and several signed witness statements that he had an IV, including statements by his roommate and his family members- not just hospital staff.

My father didn't have Walmart benefits. My father said that if he ever needed to be hospitalized at the end of his life to not call the ambulance, because my mother would go broke or die from all the stress of dealing with the insurance company.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The health insurance industry is the most vicious, hateful, bloodthirsty shakedown racket abroad in the world today. That a civilized nation allows this pox to continue to fester is testimony enough that modern civilization is rotten to its very core. When the tumbrels finally roll, I dearly hope the heads of these companies are at the front of the parade.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

When you have telemarketers selling health insurance, that should be a big clue right there. If the only way you can sell your product or service is by phone then it ain't that great.

 

[Touchofevil]

The health insurance industry is the most vicious, hateful, bloodthirsty shakedown racket abroad in the world today. That a civilized nation allows this pox to continue to fester is testimony enough that modern civilization is rotten to its very core. When the tumbrels finally roll, I dearly hope the heads of these companies are at the front of the parade.

Here here!
I currently pay $700.00 a month for "B" level insurance and have recently found that it will increase by approximately $150.00 a month for the next school year. Along with this increase will come a decrease in benfits and an increase in co-pay. The excuse for the increase is the area surrounding wherein I work blah blah blah......... rant over.

 

[Edward]

Personally, I don't think any single person should be dependent on the good or ill will of their employer. There should be laws and regulations that ensure that an employer treats his or her employees fairly. It shouldn't, IMO, be a relationship based on gratia but on the fair exchange of efforts. But I agree on consumerism being a thing of evil. Like I've said before, we're a society eating cake and wondering why we're still hungry.

People who don't understand how much we all owe to the labour union movement often try to demonise it. I supposed in any society you'll often find many willingly voting against their own best interests, though it does seem more common the more capitalist you get.

The health insurance industry is the most vicious, hateful, bloodthirsty shakedown racket abroad in the world today. That a civilized nation allows this pox to continue to fester is testimony enough that modern civilization is rotten to its very core. When the tumbrels finally roll, I dearly hope the heads of these companies are at the front of the parade.

But hey, at least it's not that evil, socialist medicine, amiright??

 

[William Stratford]

Here here!
I currently pay $700.00 a month for "B" level insurance and have recently found that it will increase by approximately $150.00 a month for the next school year. Along with this increase will come a decrease in benfits and an increase in co-pay. The excuse for the increase is the area surrounding wherein I work blah blah blah......... rant over.

:eeek:

$700?! That's about £500! A month! What kind of lunatic arrangement requires that you pay out that every month?! That's just plain potty. [huh] People over here who whinge about the NHS should spend some time in America with its "healthcare" system. I can even get top level treatment from Bupa here for £1000 a YEAR (about $1400).

 

[vitanola]

I own a small business, and so I since 1984 have had an individual policy. At the age of 38, I came down with chicken pox. The virus affected my cardiac function. leaving me with an abnormal EKG. Shortly after this bout of illness, my health insurer raised the rate on my renewal policy from $265/month to $2,180/month (or thereabouts), on account of my now "preexisting heart disease". I had just under three weeks to find a new policy. I was unable to get anything for less than $2,000/month, and have been uninsured since. I have paid, cash, for my care since then. Sometimes I am able to get a considerable discount, other times I must pay the full cost of a procedure. Three years ago I had a fainting spell and required a basic neurological work-up. Cost me the price of a house, for the hospital would not accept less than their "list price" for several of the procedures, though I find that they offer tremendous discounts to certain insurers. These are not made avialable to the self-insured.

I am eagerly awaiting the ability to again purchase insurance. Our state turned down the funds which were to be used to set up an insurance exchange, so I will need to wait until 2014, or perhaps not, one never can tell.

By the way, Mr. Stratford, I'm told that in your country folks are practically dying in the streets due to the rationing of medical care, and that the care that your NHS offers is at a barely third-world level. Of course I do live in Hillsdale, MI, and our local sources are perhaps not entirely accurate, and just a teeny weeny wee bit bloodthirsty, but is there not beauty even in bloodthirstiness?

 

[William Stratford]

By the way, Mr. Stratford, I'm told that in your country folks are practically dying in the streets due to the rationing of medical care, and that the care that your NHS offers is at a barely third-world level.

That is, thankfully, not remotely the case. Our NHS system has its faults (such as the loss of Matrons who made damn sure the wards were clean) but I would still rather have it than the god-awful greed-fest that America suffers under. We gave up using leaches a long time ago, but your healthcare seems to still be dependent upon them.

 

[Drappa]

I would happily hand over half my pay cheque in order to be guaranteed decent health care. Germans pay high fees for health insurance, but despite their constant complaining the care is quick and outstanding. Having lived in the UK for seven years now, I can confirm that it is indeed comparable to third-world health care and in no way comparable to Europe or Canada - in fact I still cry for my mother every time I am at the mercy of the NHS. It boggles my mind almost every day that the Brits put up with this.

 

[Flicka]

We don't pay extra for medical insurance - it's part of our general social insurance. You have to pay a fee to see a doctor, which would be the equivalent of 20 dollars, but only up to about 250 dollars a year. Once you hit that cap, it's free. I think our healthcare is excellent, but then I come from a family of doctors so I could be biased.

Anyway,I know that my mother, who has lupus and can't even walk, let alone work, would never have recieved the sort of care she does under another system.

 

[JohnRutherford]

I think it's completely possible that there could be a next great depression. There are all the factors that lead to one (rampant business practices, large volumes of the homeless, high unemployment and underemployment), and I'd also gladly give up half of my pay so that I could have decent health care without paying an arm and a leg. On average, it costs me $140US per visit. Per visit. This appalls me, and even though the Affordable Health Care Act was upheld, it doesn't do that much for the American people(but it does do good). This needs to change, and soon, or we'll find ourselves like things were in '29 before we know it. I'm scared, deeply scared, that I won't be able to have a job or support my future wife and children. I'm a History major right now, and planning on getting my Masters after I graduate so that I can teach at a college level without complaint, and if things keep going the way they are, I might have to leave the country to get a job in that profession. I'm not opposed to doing something else, but history(and teaching) is something that I love, and I'd like to do something that I want to do with my life. However, at this point in time, the odds seem stacked against it. I have hope, but not much. Just like people did after the crash in '29.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Several years ago I needed major surgery. I was working as an "independent contractor" at the time -- meaning no benefits, no insurance -- and the going rate for what I needed was over $30,000. That was more than I was making in a year.

So I went to a private hospital in Canada, where I got the same level of care, if not better, for *less than half the price.* (Somebody please explain how that can be without using the words "gouging, grafting AMA racketeers.") I had to sell my house to raise the money, but at least I wasn't driven into a debt I could never pay off.

 

[AmateisGal]

Insurance is a racket, that's for sure, but so is the outrageous cost of medical care. I honestly don't know how it got to this point. Then there's the ridiculous malpractice insurance that doctors have to pay. No matter which thing you try to fix, the other one is going to counteract it. This new healthcare law is supposed to make it so that everyone can get insurance - and that's terrific - but even if you HAVE insurance, that doesn't guarantee that you won't go into debt for your health. I have high deductible insurance and even though my employer pays for my premium (thank goodness), I still have to pay over 2k for my recent hysterectomy. Yeah, that may be a drop in the bucket for some people, but that is still a huge amount for me.