Do you see a time when you stop wearing vintage?

[MisterCairo]

I couldn't help noticing that most comments here are from women. I guess this is because male clothing (suits in particular), vintage or otherwise, is more, what's the word I want, homogenized than female styles? I will always be wearing suits professionally and in appropriate social settings, so I presume I'll continue to prefer vintage styling. My more casual attire of course is comprised of trousers, collared shirts and appropriate shoes, so again, why wouldn't I continue with vintage styling?

Men also seem to be less likely to be accused of dressing age "inappropriately" (rightly or wrongly).

Is it easier for men to dress in vintage/vintage-inspired clothing over time? Generally?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I couldn't help noticing that most comments here are from women.

Is it easier for men to dress in vintage/vintage-inspired clothing over time? Generally?

I've been selling vintage menswear (mostly to men) for 20 years. Most of my male customers have eventually stopped wearing vintage. Unfortunate, but true. As their lives have changed, they've either lost interest or have discovered that vintage no longer "fits in" with their lifestyle.

 

[LizzieMaine]

To be fair, it may be also that more men haven't responded is because this is a Powder Room thread. It's OK to speak up on this one, boys -- we don't have cooties.

 

[1961MJS]

I've been sell vintage menswear (mostly to men) for 20 years. Most of my male customers have eventually stopped wearing vintage. Unfortunate, but true. As their lives have changed, they've either lost interest or have discovered that vintage no longer "fits in" with their lifestyle.

Hi Marc

Both my grandfather(s) and my father wore their clothing until it was worn out. Style doesn't seem to bother us much, just gut size. If those guys who bought vintage from you are the same size as when they purchased the last piece, they're probably still wearing it. Dry cleaned wool lasts a LONG TIME. My Father died in 2011, he still wore his WW2 HBT jacket to do yard work until until a couple of years ago (his knees went). I wear my 1985 Sperry Topsiders to shoot in.

The best "threadbare clothing" viewing was a 50 year old in one of Wichita's snootiest restaurants. He was in the bar of the snooty restaurant, late Saturday Afternoon (say 6 PM) drinking his post mowing single malt scotch. He was wearing grass stained top siders, a button down dress shirt with Polo guy, and paint splattered khaki's with the Polo guy. The knees weren't torn, but were see through...

Later

 

[MisterCairo]

I've been sell vintage menswear (mostly to men) for 20 years. Most of my male customers have eventually stopped wearing vintage. Unfortunate, but true. As their lives have changed, they've either lost interest or have discovered that vintage no longer "fits in" with their lifestyle.

I can easily see that, peoples' tastes can change over time. I was thinking more along the lines of the comments concerning weight gain, seasonal issues and so on, that the ladies seemed to be the ones more affected.

Or, as Lizzie notes, is it just that we're (guys) not peeking into this thread?

 

[Edward]

About ten years ago I was sick and lost a lot of weight -- about thirty pounds -- and none of my clothes would fit. I knew I'd gain the weight back once I was recovered, so I just grabbed some random stuff from the Goodwill to wear until I recovered -- none of it was flagrantly "modern," but it was more so than anything I'd worn up to then. And I felt ridiculous in it -- like I was wearing a costume. I didn't feel like myself at all. I learned a lesson there, and unless I get really sick again, I won't be repeating it.

Can't imagine you doing "modern" at all. I know what you mean about costume, though. I've gotten out of the habit of wearing jeans much in these last few years. I hate the anti-denim snobbery that I encounter sometimes in the vintage world - fair enough if folks don't like it for themselves, but I find it tedious when some think they're somehow better people for never wearing it. Anyhoo. On the rare occasion when I happen to pull on pair of jeans myself, it does feel somehow a bit more "costume" because I'm simply not used to it any more. When I go uber casual (which usually amounts to a pair of jeans, and a t-shirt underneath a short-sleeve shirt), I am also a lot more conscious of what I'm wearing simply because it's not what I'm used to. Aside from the familiarity of collar and tie with trousers in terms of physical feel, there's also the comfort of 'uniform' in a suit. When I go to jeans and a much more casual appearance, I have to actually think consciously about what I'm putting on. Being that much more aware of it can make it feel like costume. Much of my wardrobe is either modern reproduction, or contemporary stuff cut to close-to-vintage patterns. Were I to stray outside of that, I'd be lost. While I'm certainly not too proud to pick up bits from the High Street that work for me, put me in somewhere like Next, The Gap, TopShop..... and I'll be completely lost. On Jermyn Street, I'm at home.

I can't see it for me. It just fits and wears so well. I'm still transitioning from my old Goth/ Industrial style and have days when I want to go to clubs more deiselpunk and wear red eyeshadow- but overall my lookis more classic and I think always will be. Plus- I'll be in fashion again soon enough- its all cylical.

I'm q sucker for a good dieselpunk look. It's how I define myself, really. I'm not vintage in the sense that some people are - i.e. I don't wish it was really 1938 and I don't want to live my daily life as if it was. I'm all about preserving what is good from that period, what I like about that era, while incorporating the elements and technologies of modernity that I do enjoy.

Yes me too. I think with me, there is the semi-hibernation aspect of Winter i like, safe and sound at home or scuttling around in the cold, well wrapped up, the Winter nights drawing in early et al. I take comfort from it and i enjoy it much more compared to Summer when the Black Dog seems to be at its' most persistent.

Glad it's not only me! I think part of it is a sense of loss of personal social cohesiveness: a lot of things wind up for the Summer, and then being one of what appear to be increasingly fewer singletons in my regular social circles, people seem to go off on dates and such much more in the Summer, so they're never around... Of course, there's the ridiculousness of the weather in July and August too, when living in London is like living in an oven.

I get that, too. The first thing people notice about you is your face. If that's all done up the rest will seem like it's more "done up" than it really is. I wear a "uniform" of sorts -- same shoes every day, jeans, Lucky 13 T's, and my H&M black jacket. Every day I wear this, but I do my hair and makeup vintage every day. And I wear cat's eye glasses. People are always coming up to me saying they like my "style" when it's really just jeans and t-shirt! lol Really, the hair and makeup can go a long way.

Sounds like a very typical early-twenty-first century rockabilly look.

I couldn't help noticing that most comments here are from women. I guess this is because male clothing (suits in particular), vintage or otherwise, is more, what's the word I want, homogenized than female styles? I will always be wearing suits professionally and in appropriate social settings, so I presume I'll continue to prefer vintage styling. My more casual attire of course is comprised of trousers, collared shirts and appropriate shoes, so again, why wouldn't I continue with vintage styling?

Makes sense.

Men also seem to be less likely to be accused of dressing age "inappropriately" (rightly or wrongly).

My experience is largely to the contrary. Everybody seems to appreciate a vintage girl, but plenty of people think of me as simply dressing "like an old man". Outside of maybe very casual, very narrow rockabilly parameters, vintage is viewed typically as "old". Not that I care - it's the assumptions about my politics that really stick in my craw (worst when other people in the vintage set assume that I think like they do..... no matter how much of a minority they really are even in that context! ).

Is it easier for men to dress in vintage/vintage-inspired clothing over time? Generally?

In a context where suits are expected, probably. In the casual arena, maybe not.

I've been sell vintage menswear (mostly to men) for 20 years. Most of my male customers have eventually stopped wearing vintage. Unfortunate, but true. As their lives have changed, they've either lost interest or have discovered that vintage no longer "fits in" with their lifestyle.

By "lifestyle", might you mean "relationships"? I've seen many, many men I've known over the years changed (usually away from strong interests, be they vintage, rockabilly, mod or whatever) by women who don't share their particular passions. It's certainly in my opinion true that whereas a man looks for a woman who is what he likes, many women seem to view men much more as projects, or raw material.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

By "lifestyle", might you mean "relationships"?

Yes, but not only romantic relationships. I was also referring to relationships with friends, and with one's line of work.

 

[MisterCairo]

maybe[/I] very casual, very narrow rockabilly parameters, vintage is viewed typically as "old". Not that I care - it's the assumptions about my politics that really stick in my craw (worst when other people in the vintage set assume that I think like they do..... no matter how much of a minority they really are even in that context! ).



In a context where suits are expected, probably. In the casual arena, maybe not.

I guess by age inappropriate commentary, I mean accusations that "she is dressing way too young for someone her age" (there's a thread on that somewhere). Or "he's dressed like a nine year old".

But I know exactly what you mean about vintage clothing on men. To us, high-waisted trousers are "Hollywood pants", to others, they are "grandpa pants". Or any three-piece suit being "old fashioned". Or more often, ANY suit being old fashioned!

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the fixation on youth cuts across both genders. Otherwise there'd be no rational explanation for thirty-five year old men going around dressed like skateboard punks.

 

[kamikat]

I think the fixation on youth cuts across both genders. Otherwise there'd be no rational explanation for thirty-five year old men going around dressed like skateboard punks.

Considering that my social circle consists of many 35 year old (and older) men going around dressed like skateboard punks, it's because they still are skateboard punks. Generally speaking, they are 2 incomes, no children couples who have never grown up. As to the socialogical issues behind this, I believe that has been covered in other threads here on FL.

 

[Edward]

I rather resent the notion that breeding equates to, or is in any way necessary to, growing up. My apologies if I have misread that.

 

[kamikat]

I rather resent the notion that breeding equates to, or is in any way necessary to, growing up. My apologies if I have misread that.

Who mentioned breeding? In my situation, I see it more as their situations not requiring growing up. Their lives are no different today then the day they graduated University, except they now have income that let's them buy all their toys. With no demands on their time or money, they spend it all on themselves. Doing things like buying a house or having babies is a concrete signifier of moving from one stage of life to the next. If one doesn't make that transition, one does not grow up. At least, in the grown man-children that I see.

 

[Flicka]

But in the end, maturity happens on the inside, right? I say that because I do feel as a single woman (with a very serious, 'grown up'- job) I sometimes get treated as a child by friends and colleagues. I think because of that I'm a little sensitive to the idea of me somehow not 'moving on' in life. I'm still not the same person I was 20 years ago.

After all, if we were to take getting children and a house as THE sign of maturity, Hugh Hefner would rate before Mother Theresa.

 

[kamikat]

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. They aren't signs of maturity to the rest of the world but a rite of passage that helps the individual internalize maturity, in many cases.

 

[Edward]

Doing things like buying a house or having babies is a concrete signifier of moving from one stage of life to the next. If one doesn't make that transition, one does not grow up. At least, in the grown man-children that I see.

It's an outward sign of some people's maturity, though by no means true for all of us. I chose very early on not to have children. I didn't choose not to have a partner, but that's the hand I've been dealt, and beyond my control. As I get older I get increasingly touchy about the number of people who outright and explicitly assume there is something wrong with me or with my maturity level simply be cause I have been "left behind" and am "on the shelf".

But in the end, maturity happens on the inside, right? I say that because I do feel as a single woman (with a very serious, 'grown up'- job) I sometimes get treated as a child by friends and colleagues. I think because of that I'm a little sensitive to the idea of me somehow not 'moving on' in life. I'm still not the same person I was 20 years ago.

Yes, agreed entirely. There is nothing automatically subnormal about the maturity level of a person simply because they never marry nor produce children. "Common" does not equate to "normal".

After all, if we were to take getting children and a house as THE sign of maturity, Hugh Hefner would rate before Mother Theresa.

Ha....

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the best way to define the kind of maturity we're talking about here is "when you cease to become dependent on another person." This can mean a lot of different things -- financial independence is the most obvious, but emotional/psychological dependence is another. How many people do we know who can't make a single decision for themselves without the guidance/approval of someone else -- a partner, a parent, a friend. I don't mean things that *should* be discussed between partners, like whether to buy a house or whether to have kids, but more inconsequential things: "What tie should I wear? What shoes go with this suit? Where should I put this living room chair? What should I have for lunch today?" If you can't make simple day-to-day decisions without asking Mommy -- either your real mommy or your psychological mommy -- then it's a good shot you aren't exactly Mature.

As far as having/not having kids go, that's a decision that was made for me by the vagaries of biology, so I can't say much about that. But I've made enough mature decisions on my own, I think, to atone for my lack of reproduction. Around here it's not so much an issue -- none of the women in my crowd, ranging from their mid-twenties to their early fifties, have kids, and we don't think much about it either way.

 

[kamikat]

It's an outward sign of some people's maturity, though by no means true for all of us. I chose very early on not to have children. I didn't choose not to have a partner, but that's the hand I've been dealt, and beyond my control. As I get older I get increasingly touchy about the number of people who outright and explicitly assume there is something wrong with me or with my maturity level simply be cause I have been "left behind" and am "on the shelf".

I think you and Flicka are missing my point entirely. My point is that because society no longer expects people to act like grown-ups as one ages, some people (who perhaps lacked role models or basic drive/ambition) need rites of passage to move from one stage of life to the next. How else do you explain a house full of 29 year old males living together with their frat brothers, with pizza boxes piled on the floor, no real furniture except a huge TV with xbox/playstation and all the latest games? They graduate college, get an entry job, then see nothing ahead of them until retirment at age 65. Or what about the 50yrs who still play in a garage band, have menial day jobs because they still think their rock band will one day make it?

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's *exactly* it. The "man-boy" phenomenon, and the fact that there are fewer "rites of passage" for men nowadays than ever before has everything to do with it. There was a time when every man in most countries had a military obligation to face up to -- and that was a definitive rite of passage for those generations. That hasn't been true here since the '70s, and not coincidentally, that's when the man-boy phenomenon really began to take hold.

 

[Edward]

I think you and Flicka are missing my point entirely. My point is that because society no longer expects people to act like grown-ups as one ages, some people (who perhaps lacked role models or basic drive/ambition) need rites of passage to move from one stage of life to the next. How else do you explain a house full of 29 year old males living together with their frat brothers, with pizza boxes piled on the floor, no real furniture except a huge TV with xbox/playstation and all the latest games?

Ah, okay.... I know they type you mean. Unfortunately even getting married and breeding doesn't seem to really make that much difference to a lot of them.

They graduate college, get an entry job, then see nothing ahead of them until retirment at age 65.

To be fair, that's probably a realistic assessment for more people than not. All things in moderation, of course, though to be honest I'd welcome a cultural shift away from our lives being defined by what we do for money. [huh] I do see where you're coming from, though.

Or what about the 50yrs who still play in a garage band, have menial day jobs because they still think their rock band will one day make it?

weelll.... they're deluding themselves, but don't we all do that in some way and on some level?

That's *exactly* it. The "man-boy" phenomenon, and the fact that there are fewer "rites of passage" for men nowadays than ever before has everything to do with it. There was a time when every man in most countries had a military obligation to face up to -- and that was a definitive rite of passage for those generations. That hasn't been true here since the '70s, and not coincidentally, that's when the man-boy phenomenon really began to take hold.

I'm very glad indeed that changed. I'm far from immature, but the military mindset is utterly alien to me. There's also the small matter of there not having been a single conflict in my lifetime in which I would have been prepared to serve. I'd rather not do time in a military prison.

 

[Flicka]

Ah, okay.... I know they type you mean. Unfortunately even getting married and breeding doesn't seem to really make that much difference to a lot of them.

Say hello to my father... Getting married, having kids, being in the Army don't mean he can hold a job or throw out pizza boxes (which is why my parents are divorced).

And yes, our society does have a Peter Pan-tendency. Personally, I don't think a lot of external pressure to make certain life choices is a cure for that. I think what we're seeing is a bunch of kids who never learned the basics in responsibility and empathy. When they grow up, they do not make very good adults, no matter where you find them.

ETA: if you asked friends and colleagues of mine, I think many would call my 'vintage/retro-ism' a sign of refusing to grow up. But I agree that the perpetual teenager is becoming more common and that the idea of acting your age just seems to become less and less appealing. However, as someone whose fate regrettably did not contain the opportunity for certain 'rites of passage' and who therefore is lumped in with the chronically immature on a daily basis, I've just developped a thin skin in regards to these issues.