Diversity

[Doctor Strange]

A slightly different take...

Like many/most, I came here primarily interested in A-2 and Indy jackets. While I'm not a high-volume buyer/owner like many of you, what being here daily did to me was get me interested in other kinds of leather jackets - Navy flight jackets, café racers, police jackets - which I eventually bought samples of. I have no interest in buying vintage/used jackets or in leather colors other than black and brown; I currently have just three of each. And I'm not really lusting for more leathers... nor can I really afford them now that I'm retired. (Note that I didn't post on the "The TFL Effect" thread, because I'm not continually buying/selling leathers like so many of you.)

But this place did get me interested in cloth jackets too, and I have been steadily acquiring them. MA-1, B-15, M-41, M-43, WEP, bush/safari jacket, etc. I've been allowing myself to buy one jacket a year, and have typically followed a $400 leather one year with an under-$100 cloth jacket the next. For example, I just got a What Price Glory repro M-43 that I think is a stunning value for just $65.

So I have a slightly different affliction, acquiring a diversity of jackets... but not mainly leather!

 

[ton312]

Whew...Got a little tense in here...

 

[Justhandguns]

A slightly different take...

Like many/most, I came here primarily interested in A-2 and Indy jackets. While I'm not a high-volume buyer/owner like many of you, what being here daily did to me was get me interested in other kinds of leather jackets - Navy flight jackets, café racers, police jackets - which I eventually bought samples of. I have no interest in buying vintage/used jackets or in leather colors other than black and brown; I currently have just three of each. And I'm not really lusting for more leathers... nor can I really afford them now that I'm retired. (Note that I didn't post on the "The TFL Effect" thread, because I'm not continually buying/selling leathers like so many of you.)

But this place did get me interested in cloth jackets too, and I have been steadily acquiring them. MA-1, B-15, M-41, M-43, WEP, bush/safari jacket, etc. I've been allowing myself to buy one jacket a year, and have typically followed a $400 leather one year with an under-$100 cloth jacket the next. For example, I just got a What Price Glory repro M-43 that I think is a stunning value for just $65.

So I have a slightly different affliction, acquiring a diversity of jackets... but not mainly leather!

Although I still have a long way to go before I can get my hands on the pension money as well as a mortgage to pay off.... I have stop buying leather flight jackets as I already have more than I need. As for biker types of jackets, my idea is just to have one jacket per style and I am happy with my Vanson/Lewis etc. I also have lost count of my nylon flight jackets as well, some L-2a/b and newer CWU jackets for casual wearings. I also have quite a few wool/fabric jackets and coats as well, which in some ways more practical in the winter months. If I can only buy one more jacket, that would be the ANJ-4.

 

[JMax]

I started off with only black leather jackets, almost all MC-style. I am in a stage where I actually prefer brown jackets though have fought the urge a couple of times to expand my color options. Almost purchased a blue and then a green jacket. I will succumb at some point but WILL hold out until I find that perfect Bates in my size.

 

[Gamma68]

This forum has done nothing but increase my interest in and enjoyment of leather jackets.

I started off with a vintage G-1 and have since come to appreciate many other styles, including the cross-zip Perfecto style, which I never could see myself wearing before discovering the outerwear forum.

Since joining almost two years ago, I've acquired 16 different jackets. Many are second-hand and I've sold about half of them. (Funny how that total keeps creeping up.) So I'm gaining greater knowledge and appreciation for different styles and makers. And colors:

I'm on a couple other menswear forums and have seen various disagreements and rants break out over time. But here the members have come across as civil, knowledgeable and very willing to share their love and enthusiasm with newer members. And who hasn't been inspired to pull a vintage jacket out of their closet after watching a @tmitchell59 video?

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

This forum has done nothing but increase my interest in and enjoyment of leather jackets.

I started off with a vintage G-1 and have since come to appreciate many other styles, including the cross-zip Perfecto style, which I never could see myself wearing before discovering the outerwear forum.

Since joining almost two years ago, I've acquired 16 different jackets. Many are second-hand and I've sold about half of them. (Funny how that total keeps creeping up.) So I'm gaining greater knowledge and appreciation for different styles and makers. And colors:

View attachment 129219

I'm on a couple other menswear forums and have seen various disagreements and rants break out over time. But here the members have come across as civil, knowledgeable and very willing to share their love and enthusiasm with newer members. And who hasn't been inspired to pull a vintage jacket out of their closet after watching a @tmitchell59 video?

Well said, well said.
B

 

[handymike]

My first was a black cross-zip and I put pins, beads, safety pins, and accoutrements all over it (in my late teens and 20s). My second was an old brown Barnstormer I bought in France. My 3rd was green, and I loved it to bits...then I sold it to Worf.
Fast forward 20 years and a bunch of jackets, I now have a brown Barnstormer from Germany, a cordovan Goodwear, and a Blue Vanson. I suppose not much has changed in my tastes, although a green Thedi would be a welcome addition.

 

[belfastboy]

I have my share of black and also shades of brown leathers and not ever likely to stray from that. However this past month bought a fringed leather jacket in a Natural deer hide. Picked it up in a vintage shop in Butte. It was so cool I HAD to buy. My wife could only shake her head and where will you wear that AND will you ever wear that? I have no idea how to answer and yes she is likely right. So you never know I may come across a green leather and in a moment of weakness give my fringed jacket company in the closet.

 

[Sloan1874]

I think most people here start off on the FQHH brown/black spectrum. Then we think 'hmm, I could go a russet one, I guess. Just round out the collection, and I really like the A-2 I saw on the Lounge'. But then you start to look at cordovan cross-zips and how cool they look, by which point you're beyond help - red skin shearling no longer looks outre and you start to bend logic to your will: 'well, I reckon petrol blue's a nice low key addition' or 'I've always wanted a natural jacket, one that I can start from scratch and really make it my own'. You could stop now but it's too late!

 

[Benny Holiday]

This thread brought back to mind memories of my youth as a young rockabilly kid, struttin' around like a (bantam weight!) rooster in my black leather jacket and thinking, "Man I ain't interested in any brown leather jacket. Only black leather is cool." Ah, the folly of youth . . .

 

[Graemsay]

If you dress like Steve Jobs though with a bright green cross zip you will almost certainly look a bit out of place in my opinion.

Steve Jobs would have been far cooler if he'd rocked a green cross zip.

I'm always happy to see different designs, and I could see myself signing up for @red devil's fifth column of East West fanatics. (That purple Freewheelers Little Wing is awesome.)

In contrast, I find the typical brown or black half belt, A2, or whatever else to be a bit boring.

 

[Edward]

It is certainly interesting to see leather jackets in newer styles and colors. It can be a source of inspiration. However, I do feel that the outerwear section has kind of lost its focus. It used to be part of the wider Fedora Lounge, and concern itself with golden era jackets and repros.
However, in the last couple of years, as the 'hipster' thing went mainstream and leather jackets became a part of that, the outerwear section seems to have become a place for people who seem to have something to prove. There's a constant 'hipster' style one-up-manship kind of competition for the heaviest, most expensive, longest wait jacket possible (extra points if it's from Japan!).

TFL was always intended to reach those interested in the culture, clothing, and general ephemera of a particular period. We do have a broad membership here, from those who are into the 'whole package' and live it daily, through to those whose interests cover maybe only one small part - flying jackets, collecting 78s, the cinema or the era, whatever - and all points in between. All welcome, of course.

It is probably a fair observation that the outerwear section has become not only dominated by leather jackets, but to some extent has become a more generic 'leather jacket area'. That said, my impression is that while we may have more posters who are not interested in the historical context of the jackets (I can't claim to be a purist myself: much as I love flying jackets from 1920ish-1960ish, I have little interest in the rest of the uniforms with which they were worn, or, indeed, the planesin which they were worn), most of the designs appreciated here do tend to squarely fall within the period.

If that's what readers/posters are into, that's fine. But I'm not, so I've got nothing to post.

Oh, I don't think interest in the vintage stuff has by any means died out - though the nature of the beast is that as original jackets get older, more fragile, and more valuable - or, at least, more expensive to acquire - the reality is repro will loom ever larger on the scene. (Victorian stuff shows us the way our interests will go - back in the 60s, Jimni Hendrix wore an original Crimean War era Hussar's jacket. These days, those are museum pieces, and a(n expensive) repop is your only realistic option. Won't be long before 30s and 40s is all that way now). Still, true to vintage designs... if there are no threads that interest you, the best option is to start some on the stuff you like - I think you might be pleasantly surprised by hoe many folks are still interested in new angles, even if the level of knowledge about, say, A2 contracts now in our archives is perhaps past the point of exponential growth given the finite nature of such historical information. Still plenty to discuss though.

I think in addition to that, since I restarted posting again after my illness a couple of years ago, I've noticed that not just the content, but also the tone of the discussion has changed here. On many occasions in the last couple of years I've seen racism, anti-intellectualism, misogyny and homo-phobia in the comments here. Each time I just rationalized it as 'boys will be boys' and 'locker room talk', but considered together, these comments are shameful to be associated with, and I want to avoid that.

Alas, the bartenders in these parts are but human and need to have dayjobs as well; while we do strive to keep that sort of thing off the Lounge, we may not always catch it early. The best way of dealing with that sort of thing is not to respond directly to it but instead just use the report facility and it should quietly disappear over a day or so.

Also, since a couple of years ago, I've noticed that some members are extremely thin-skinned, and can't handle questions, never mind debate. It's got to the point where threads are just kind of echo-chambers with a handful of posters because offering a differing opinion makes you a target of some kind of vendetta that follows you from thread to thread (all dressed up in victim-complex hysteria about oppression). When some posters ask for your opinion, what they seem to be asking for is affirmation, not critical feedback.

That's one school of thought - the 'if you don't have anything nice to say...'; at the opposite end, there are those who can be quite brutal and unconstructive in their feedback. The biggest lack in the internet is of tone of voice - sometimes people do take offence very readily reading a tone that isn't intended, while equally perhaps sometimes some posters should maybe think twice not about expressing an opinion, but how they express an opinion. We don't demand agreement at TFL, but we do require civility. That goes for those who like to poke the bear as much as it does for the bear when it snaps.

I've also noticed that whilst I thought VLJF was set up and run by manufacturers, it shares it's top moderator with TFL. This strikes me as an odd state of affairs when members are banned by the mods here for, say, racism, and then the same mods allow the same member to post on another forum.

I can't speak directly for those involved, though it sounds like they are being reasonably fair. There are people that TFL has had to ban over the years for various, long-term uncivil conduct, let's say, but I would find it hard to say that would justfiy banning them from another space where they had not so behaved and therefore deserve no penalty. (though doubtless a known troublemaker will always attract a level of scrutiny). TFL is an independent forum and not (despite any personnel in common) linked in its membership policy or approach to conduct elsewhere, so.

Maybe in future the pendulum will swing back and TFL's outerwear section will be full of interesting vintage information and discussion, and I will re-engage. Maybe not.

As a eise man once said, be the change you wish to see in the world.

I think that as time goes i have been getting jacket designs that are more "out there", like the Chevalier, the LaBrea, even the Vanson Chopper. All three are designs i would have never seen myself wearing when i bought my first leather jacket back in 2012. Back then i wanted the least "showy" jackets i could find, no fancy pockets, no studs, just simple design, black and nickel. To me the brown and gold chevalier was a big step forward. Before i finally wore it i was pretty nervous about it, not sure i could pull it off.
I don't think i am ready yet for coloured leather, can't really see myself in one, but hey, i would have never seen myself in a Chevalier either and i love it! Never say never.

Like you i am glad that this forum has evolved further than the A2 fanclub it used to be a few years ago, it is a lot more fun.

The A2 I will always enjoy; I also enjoy other jackets. It's nice to have a range of options reflected here, even if not all to my own taste. It's definitely true, though, that those of us lucky enough to have a range of leather jackets often cover the 'basics' and then find that we have the space for something more outre. Similar to how if you can only afford one suit, you'll buy maybe a sober, navy pinstripe suitable for weddings, funerals and interviews, whereas if you can have a dozen suits, that gold lame Elvis number you migh wear once or twice a year can begin to look pretty sexy...

I think most people here start off on the FQHH brown/black spectrum. Then we think 'hmm, I could go a russet one, I guess. Just round out the collection, and I really like the A-2 I saw on the Lounge'. But then you start to look at cordovan cross-zips and how cool they look, by which point you're beyond help - red skin shearling no longer looks outre and you start to bend logic to your will: 'well, I reckon petrol blue's a nice low key addition' or 'I've always wanted a natural jacket, one that I can start from scratch and really make it my own'. You could stop now but it's too late!

Quite so.

This thread brought back to mind memories of my youth as a young rockabilly kid, struttin' around like a (bantam weight!) rooster in my black leather jacket and thinking, "Man I ain't interested in any brown leather jacket. Only black leather is cool." Ah, the folly of youth . . .

Ha, I did exactly the same thing. Then I decided a brown Indy might be nice for certain occasions, and a less showy black number for when the Perfecto type is a it 'much', and it snowballed from there!

 

[Edward]

Steve Jobs would have been far cooler if he'd rocked a green cross zip.

I'm always happy to see different designs, and I could see myself signing up for @red devil's fifth column of East West fanatics. (That purple Freewheelers Little Wing is awesome.)

In contrast, I find the typical brown or black half belt, A2, or whatever else to be a bit boring.

EW is about as far from being my thing as flared trousers, but the craftsmanship I do appreciate. They're a good example of the stretching of the TFL timeline, I think - the primary interest original being 30s-early 60s, though it also no goes in both directions with the 20s appealing to different people. All sorts of reasons for that - changing fashions even within vintage, changing popular culture bringing people here, changes in average age of TFL members.... Always interesting, though, to see what;'s out there for the wider context. While not every big name in the leather world today makes jackets that are for my tastes (or, indeed, pocket), I do enjoy the diversity we see, rather than, say, a dozen makers all doing the same cafe raver / half belt / crosszip repro range without putting their own spin on it.

 

[zebedee]

I started with a brown Highwayman, then got a black Stockman.

Then it got messy. I got a cordovan LHB, then a battered tan cafe racer jacket. Then I reined it back in and stuck with dark browns (seal). The cordovan bleeds and the tan only really works (if I keep the weight down) with a t-shirt and jeans. I wear non-blacks/browns much less often. If there were no bleed, I would probably wear the cordovan LHB with greater frequency, but I only have to brush the pocket of a pair of beige or grey trousers and it's laundry time. On the other hand, with a dark green shirt and a black pair of carhartts, cordovan is the mutt's nuts.

 

[nick123]

Part of the equation of the emergence of oddball colors-Aero, Thedi, and others, have new colored leathers. Those, to my knowledge, weren’t around in 2012.

As far as the so-called loss of morality or civility is concerned, much has to do with the fact that there is more content, and users here, than ever. There were times past when it’d be over an hour or two between outerwear posts. Now, with more users, this place is more alive.

Naturally all kinds of odd bugs aside from the common house spider will crawl in if the door is left open for a peroid of time. I’m a cockroach.

 

[Lebowski]

To look at some good jackets in bright colours - well, why not (for instance, Michael Jackson in his red MC jacket looked very cool in his Thriller video). To wear bright colours in leather in casual life - nope)) Just aren't ready to wear them still)
Different shades of black, brown and tan colours - that's what I like. I also like cordovan and natural raw hide may be ('cause raw leather usually looks the more cool tanned the more you wear them).
So - black, brown, cordovan, tan and raw - those are the colours which I like most in leather jackets (in a matter of casual wearing). And navy blue perhaps)) Esp. when it looks between black, grey and blue in its colour).
That's my humble opinion)

 

[dubpynchon]

I used to think black was the only colour for leather jackets, then I made an exception for cordovan and I also found an Eastman G1 in my size for a good price, but ultimately black is the colour to which I return for leather. For some reason I associate brown leather jackets with an older generation, and I’m no spring chicken myself, apart from the G1, which is the exception, er, for some reason.
@Worf ’s Barnstormer in battered tan though... crazy.

 

[zebedee]

Reckon that brown fqhh is the best all-round colour. That or goat seal (which everyone seems to like). 50s HB or original Highwayman are ones that I've gotten most nice comments on. I really like the battered tan, but I usually go back to darker colours. The cordovan LHB is the one I wish I got more use out of, but the HB and HWYMN do all the same things (modified deep inner pockets on HWYMN) and don't give me red smudges everywhere. I get irritated that I have to plan what shirts and trousers to wear around the LHB's propensity to leak. Have never had the issue with any other Aero.

 

[zebedee]

Does anyone know if cordovan/oxblood was ever a common colour for workwear?

 

[ton312]

Does anyone know if cordovan/oxblood was ever a common colour for workwear?

I believe the Sears/Wards/Speigel jackets (styled like long half belts) came in an oxblood/Cordo type color quite frequently. Not the oily waxy delicious type like CXL but the color was close...