Dillinger hat specs

[Banky]

I know from searching there was controversy over this hat in the past, but I figured I'd post a thread because I didn't really see anything pertaining to the specs of the hat. I'm planning to personally make this hat under the tutelage of my local hatter. I'm not worried about the color.

What I'm having trouble with is the specs on it in terms of brim and crown width and height respectively. As well as the pinch and crown crease.

I know hats of the period you want as straight a crown and possible, tall with a shorter brim.

That all being said, what would you guys go with in order to accurately reproduce this hat in appearance?

From looking at picture, it appears to have a crown somewhere in the 5in region, maybe 2 1/4 underwelt brim a center crease with a tight front pinch? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks your your time gentleman

 

[Bruce Wayne]

From what I recall Mr. Thompson telling me, the crown height is 5 1/2 uncreased with a 2 1/4 underwelted brim.

Thanx!!!
Charlie

 

[Banky]

Well, at least it seems like my assumptions on crown and brim width were correct. As far as ribbon, I'm stuck between 1 7/8 and 2 in. working entirely off pictures is making it difficult to accurately estimate proportions.

 

[jlee562]

5 3/4" open crown, 2" brim with underwelt.

I asked Optimo to make mine with a slightly shorter crown however.

 

[Banky]

did you go with a 2 in ribbon?

 

[jlee562]

Yes, the film hat has a nice vintage ribbon which they had long run out of by the time I had the cash for this hat. As I wear a lot of black anyway, it ended up being a happy coincidence.

 

[fedoracentric]

This question makes me wonder what hat is being talked about, here? The hat Dillinger actually wore, or the one Johnny Depp wore? The only pics I see of the real outlaw he's wearing a short brimmed, curled thing in a light gray or white or light color that looks sort of Homburgish. I am interested in seeing a photo of the "Dillinger hat" that the original poster above was talking about.

Or...

 

[jlee562]

I assumed since Bruce and I both referenced Optimo and were not corrected, we were talking about the Depp hat.

 

[Banky]

Yes, my mistake for lack of clarification before leaving for work. I meant the depp hat made and then reproduced by optimo/Graham

 

[Tedquinton]

Another Public Enemies Thread

I'm sure this has been discussed before but a search threw up nothing. I'm intrigued by the brim treatment on Depp's fedora. It looks like a Cavanagh edge, but that's not possible...can anyone shed some light?

Cheers

 

[TheDane]

I'm not quite sure, but it looks a lot like an under-welt. Isn't that stitches ontop of the brim right above his eyes?

The left side of the brim (seen from viewer's perspective) also points toward an under-welt. This is not a proof, though. This image is a "knock-out" (the original background is removed), so it's impossible to tell how the brim actually looked before the editing.

 

[Rogera]

Sure looks like an underwelt to me

 

[Tedquinton]

I'm sure you're right, it just doesn't look thick enough, movie magic perhaps. I guess I was hoping for a pseudo cav edge replacement. Surely there must be something better than an underwhelt?

 

[RBH]

From what I recall Mr. Thompson telling me, the crown height is 5 1/2 uncreased with a 2 1/4 underwelted brim.

Thanx!!!
Charlie

From the man [Graham] that made the hat.
An under welt seems pretty definitive to me.

 

[Blackthorn]

When did underwelts become common in hats? Thirties? Much later, sixties?

 

[Tedquinton]

Oh well, it appears my dreams have not been answered. Still it's a great hat!

 

[TheDane]

I'm sure you're right, it just doesn't look thick enough, movie magic perhaps.

Funny, I find it quite thick. Anyway, it could have been pounced down in thickness - just like Stetson's "Warfer Edge" (featured on some Stetson Flagships). The felted edge is such a special property, that it can't be mimicked. An underwelt is probably the closest, you nowadays can get to a felted edge.

I haven't seen it done, but with "invisible" stiches and the right pressing of the edge, one would be able to get quite close. Knox (and a few others) used to do an underwelt with a stitching that didn't penetrate to the upperside of the brim. Instead there were two rows of stitching on the underside. The pressing/ironing made the upperside look very much like a felted edge - but I never liked the two-row-stitching on the underside.

 

[TheDane]

When did underwelts become common in hats? Thirties? Much later, sixties?

Books from the early 1900s treat the subject, so it has been with us for a very long time. From what I have read, it doesn't seem a rare process in those days - but my memory is very blurry before the late 1950s, so I can't tell for sure

 

[Blackthorn]

Books from the early 1900s treat the subject, so it has been with us for a very long time. From what I have read, it doesn't seem a rare process in those days - but my memory is very blurry before the late 1950s, so I can't tell for sure

I had no idea. Thanks Dane!

 

[TheDane]

You're welcome. A wild guess is, that the felted edge and the welted edge originally were two concurrent expressions of almost the same fashion-idea. The welted edge could even be the oldest, and the reason for Mr. Cavanagh's thought: "Haha ... I can do that a lot better. I just need to sew the edge before felting!". This is pure speculation on my part, though