Differences between buffalo and steerhide leather jackets?

[Formeruser012524]

I'm interested in the most important differences between buffalo hide and steerhide, and there is some conflicting/confusing information online, so I thought I'd ask the real experts...

1.) In terms of "weight", how different is the same exact jacket in 1,0 mm buffalo hide vs. 1,0 mm steerhide?

2.) How different is the strength and durability?

3.) The flexibility/stretchability (or lack thereof) should be about the same, no?

4.) Any significant differences in softness?

5.) Any striking insulation properties?

6.) Is it difficult to achieve a more even leather thickness with buffalo compared to steer?

I appreciate your help as always.

For what it's worth, the image below is something interesting from a website, and although I'm not sure how accurate the information is, unfortunately there's no buffalo leather being compared...

 

[Guppy]

Buffalo and cow should be very similar. Probably you'd see more difference arise from different tanning methods than from the skin itself, or how the animals were raised.

 

[Formeruser012524]

Buffalo and cow should be very similar. Probably you'd see more difference arise from different tanning methods than from the skin itself, or how the animals were raised.

This makes sense but is also good to hear because Five* has more interesting colors when it comes to buffalo compared to steerhide, so if the properties are very similar (especially the strength, durability and weight), then that's great.

 

[tmitchell59]

I think of Bison and Cowhide as very different leathers, had not thought about the similarities. This is a Bison jacket made by Lost World. I typically think of Bison as having this look-feel-weight as this Lost World jacket.

I just can't quite see Cowhide and Bison jackets being that similar to wear. They are not to me, in fact very different.

The Bison is a thick more spongy hide, that does have weight, but very soft and pliable. A cowhide jacket with the properties of a Bison jacket would be odd.

Bison is a great leather just very different than Cowhide in my experience

This is Steerhide, Old, but will work for a quick comparison.

 

[tmitchell59]

That Schott jacket linked above is a nice looking jacket. I wonder why they are going with Bison? Not a typical leather.

Ask Schott how they would describe Cowhide and Bison.

 

[ton312]

This makes sense but is also good to hear because Five* has more interesting colors when it comes to buffalo compared to steerhide, so if the properties are very similar (especially the strength, durability and weight), then that's great.

Typically Buffalo has a different grain pattern as well. Usually much larger and more pronounced than cow or horse as Terry mentioned above.

Buffalo can run the quality gambit as well. There are light weight buffalo hides, like those used by Levi's and STH:

I believe the 5 Star offereing is similar in weight to the examples above.
The SB detroit I had was far heavier and showed more pronounced grain and was very soft, this was from Horween:

 

[Monitor]

The chart OP posted is a joke. Here's the correct one. Yellow dots are the range it can reach but normally doesn't. Buffalo, to me, is most similar to Goat.

 

[handymike]

I think a cossack style looks fantastic in grainy buffalo. I always wanted a Thedi button up in this hide.

 

[Marc mndt]

I think a cossack style looks fantastic in grainy buffalo. I always wanted a Thedi button up in this hide.

That's exactly what I've got incoming this week

 

[handymike]

Oh boy, can’t wait to see this!

 

[belfastboy]

It also depends on: is it the Asian water buffalo or the American bison (buffalo)? I have an Aero water buffalo and it is a thick heavy hide with wonderful large peddle graining. I have owned an American buffalo/bison full hide jacket that weighed 10 lbs+ and was too heavy to wear and had zero graining.

 

[Brandrea33]

Oh my Marc … congratulations in advance

 

[marker2037]

Good questions, I want to know myself. Considering they are a closely related animal, the grain difference is quite significant. Schott has recently come out with some Buffalo hide jackets, and they are very pebbly grained, kind of similar to goat in apperance. It doesn't look anything like steer or cowhide.

Here is a new Schott Jacket. I don't actually fancy this jacket, but you can see the texture of the Buffalo... Oh wait, it's Bison.. I think it is the same thing, correct me if I am wrong about that.

Schott U.S. Bison Delivery Jacket 463

www.schottnyc.com

Bison and Buffalo are not the same animal. Bison are North American "Buffalo". What Schott is selling is Bison, which has the big, pebbly grain.

What Thedi, for example, sells is Asian (or African?) Buffalo, by contrast.

The Buffalo from Thedi is stiffer than cowhide jackets, much higher differences in grain as well. Steer and cow usually has more uniformity across the hide whereas the buffalo is quite varying and it's noticeable in the jacket. Other than that, they are pretty similar in my experience if you are talking about the same weight hides.

 

[Edward]

My Aero Dustbowl is Horween Bison. It's a teacore hide, and hefty. Softer right off the bat than either CXL horse or steer, and with a distinctive grain pattern, not so unlike the pebbly look you see on the goat Aero uses. Very nice hide to wear, but not one for consideration if you don't like it thick. It's definitely softer but also thicker than any CXL I've ever handled. (I don't think Aero have ever taken it into their standard line-up, they just happened to have some when I visited to spec up my jacket.) Not one for a jacket for wearing in warmer weather, or if you just want a light jacket.

 

[Canuck Panda]

1.) In terms of "weight", how different is the same exact jacket in 1,0 mm buffalo hide vs. 1,0 mm steerhide?
I think Shawn's Buffalo is actual water buffalo which is just Asian cows. So almost the same.

2.) How different is the strength and durability?
Almost the same at 1mm

3.) The flexibility/stretchability (or lack thereof) should be about the same, no?
That depends on the tanning process. Some hides are stretched when dried some are shrunk so you have to ask him for the specific.

4.) Any significant differences in softness?
Again more to do with tanning method than actual different animals.

5.) Any striking insulation properties?
1mm isn't very thick to notice any R value difference.

6.) Is it difficult to achieve a more even leather thickness with buffalo compared to steer?
The only leather from Shawn that will vary in thickness is the horse and goatskins. other hides are always split and he buys the top grain part which is always gonna be uniform.

As a side note on American Bison vs American Steer. If American Bison is available, go for that. It's the stronger of the two, and less common to come by. I got both Horween Bison and Horween Steer, both 5oz, both in the same jacket style, both weighs the same 7lbs. But the Bison feels like Godzilla and the steer feels like Bambi in real life.
The only downside (to some not to me) of Bison is that it's very rustic. Mine is semi corrected and still very rustic. Just like coarse horsehide but even more robust. In your hands you simply cannot mistaken Bison hides for any other. Period. If it's available, get it. And you'll cross off most robust from list.

Black is Bison and Slate is Steer:

Bison Grain even after spot corrections (you can still see the rustic wild lines beneath):

naked steer grain (very stay in the barn milk cows):

In jacket forms:

Go Bison!

 

[Canuck Panda]

Good questions, I want to know myself. Considering they are a closely related animal, the grain difference is quite significant. Schott has recently come out with some Buffalo hide jackets, and they are very pebbly grained, kind of similar to goat in apperance. It doesn't look anything like steer or cowhide.

Here is a new Schott Jacket. I don't actually fancy this jacket, but you can see the texture of the Buffalo... Oh wait, it's Bison.. I think it is the same thing, correct me if I am wrong about that.

Schott U.S. Bison Delivery Jacket 463

www.schottnyc.com

That Schott looks like the real American Bison. I am surprised they are using this leather. Most consumers would probably return it for "defective" grains or too heavy. Very nice. But a bit pricey at full retail. I'd wait till it goes on sale.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Wow, now I really want Bison, thanks for the details! I really like the heavy strong stuff, and if it can be supple… superb.

Schott web store does also mention heavyweight. Pics looks good. Just the price is no good. Can get a full custom jacket in Bison for that money. But Schott goes on sale.
My wife once bought a Schott jacket from Aritzia sale for 30 cents of a dollar. It was one of the heaviest (thickest) cowhide jacket I've seen. Was very wierd that Schott would make such heavy jacket for fashion market and for women. That's probably why it was on sale for next to nothing. So yeah, they can make some serious heavyweight stuff, just not always for the mens actual leather market as it seems. Very strange.

 

[Aloysius]

Schott web store does also mention heavyweight. Pics looks good. Just the price is no good. Can get a full custom jacket in Bison for that money. But Schott goes on sale.
My wife once bought a Schott jacket from Aritzia sale for 30 cents of a dollar. It was one of the heaviest (thickest) cowhide jacket I've seen. Was very wierd that Schott would make such heavy jacket for fashion market and for women. That's probably why it was on sale for next to nothing.

Reminds me of when I (as a teenaged TFL regular, many years ago) went to an outlet mall's Ralph Lauren store. Everyone was lining up to buy pony branded knit and t-shirts for $10 off of retail, meanwhile the RRL and Purple Label stuff, originally priced in the hundreds, was in the clearance rack because suburban mall customers don't know or care what that is, so I bought quite a few things.

So yeah, they can make some serious heavyweight stuff, just not always for the mens actual leather market as it seems. Very strange.

They have quite a few heavy leathers but it is not always clear from online photos and most stores that sell Schott focus on just a few items, so it can be hard to notice. Visiting their factory let me experience this properly.

I don't know if there is space in your collection for another black cross-zip, but if it were I would genuinely put the stiff horsehide 613SH that I own up there against any other cross-zip. It is a truly impressive leather, and an excellent pattern.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Reminds me of when I (as a teenaged TFL regular, many years ago) went to an outlet mall's Ralph Lauren store. Everyone was lining up to buy pony branded knit and t-shirts for $10 off of retail, meanwhile the RRL and Purple Label stuff, originally priced in the hundreds, was in the clearance rack because suburban mall customers don't know or care what that is, so I bought quite a few things.



They have quite a few heavy leathers but it is not always clear from online photos and most stores that sell Schott focus on just a few items, so it can be hard to notice. Visiting their factory let me experience this properly.

I don't know if there is space in your collection for another black cross-zip, but if it were I would genuinely put the stiff horsehide 613SH that I own up there against any other cross-zip. It is a truly impressive leather, and an excellent pattern.

I have nothing against Schott jackets. I like what they do with leather jackets. Except their marketing. I paid mostly 800 ish and more for my fashion Schotts. While my wife paid less than 300 for her super thick "real leather jacket" Schott, her jacket was literally 5oz or thicker leather, which she donated right away for being too thick. After that I stopped being a Schott customer.

 

[Aloysius]

I have nothing against Schott jackets. I like what they do with leather jackets. Except their marketing. I paid mostly 800 ish and more for my fashion Schotts. While my wife paid less than 300 for her super thick "real leather jacket" Schott, her jacket was literally 5oz or thicker leather, which she donated right away for being too thick. After that I stopped being a Schott customer.

I know, I’ve seen you praise someone’s Schott car coat here. I just think you’d really like that leather (613SH); I do like how much of a hidden gem it is though!