Difference between Cuenca and Montecristi?

[SHARPETOYS]

I am currently waiting with worms on my tongue (baited breath) for an extra fino Cuenca which I ordered 3 weeks ago from Robert. I guess I asked him the same question.
But I would like to ask it again. I'm not looking for a $500 straw hat. What I want is a $100 hat that I can wear daily. Which will look the best for a couple of years ??? A fino Montecristi or a extra fino Cuenca ??

Your Cuenca will be finer, for about the same price...

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Bob or Sharpey, have you any answer for me? Yes I do..

Hi to all.
I'm looking for a straight sided crown, not tapered, hight like an OR crown, or few less. With not too wide brims. I like very much the hat sharpey shows with shoeshineboys.
Bob or Sharpey, have you any answer for me?
(I'm waiting 15Th may to put my PanamaBob Montecristi's on...)
Best regards.
Riccardo.

Riccardo,
That hat is a Montecristi and it has 1000 weaves per square inch. It was blocked in Ecuador and I changed out the ribbon to burnt orange. Panamabob got the Montecristi for me. Just let Robert Weber know what you want.

http://www.panamas.biz/index.html

 

[HungaryTom]

30k for a hat?

A 84 year old Montecristi Super Fino...Looks like linen.

http://www.panamas.biz/index.html[/QUOTE]

Sharpey,

Maybe it is such vintage high-end fino fino de Montecristi that could be rightfully sold for those 25-30k USD some hatters ask as recompense for taking their flagships?
This Optimo has the vintage value for collectors/museums and can not be achieved by contemporary high-end Montecristi (like your Bogey Fedora hat with the navy ribbon…also primo in its league )
This hat was produced in the glory days of Panama, another era. There were ten times more weavers around Montecristi and the best took 8-9-12 months to produce their masterpieces vs. 3-4 months maximum weaving time today. This is what contemporary masters are willing to invest in work for the max. 500 USD paid for high-end hats by commissioners in return. Still an over-generous effort!!!!
Therefore this Aristocrat will stay an all-time wpsi recorder and your once-in-a lifetime collector’s luck! Congratulations! And thanks for introducing this beauty at FL!

 

[Mark G]

A 30K Monticristi... What else would you wear in your Bentley

 

[HungaryTom]

A 30K Monticristi... What else would you wear in your Bentley

Yeaaahhh!
25k?30k?All this seems stratospheric, academic.

Practice:
I ordered a "Bogey" Montecristi w. black band from PanamaBob since I couldn't stand just reading all about Montecristi and stairing at them on the web. It shall arrive soon...Panama hat season has already arrived!
I promise to post pics once I have it .

 

[mingoslim]

I hope some hats come up soon. Holy Week puts Ecuador into a frenzy. It is Mother's Day, New Year's Day, and then Easter that really slow things down.

Here is a Good Friday Procession:

fftopic: Not to disparage anyone's religious holidays, or indigenous costumes . . . But are you sure that is in Ecuador and not southern Mississippi?fftopic:

 

[RedPop4]

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: <rolls eyes>

That's a custom that began in Andalusia. Andalusia is a province in the southern part of Spain, in Europe on the Iberian Peninsula. Most of the sailors and those who "conquered" the New World, came from that area of Spain. They brought with them religious and cultural traditions, like this one, the Semana Santa (Holy Week) processions, as well as their Spanish dialect.

Typical, though. Love that "non-Southern" superiority complex so many seem to have.

 

[warbird]

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: <rolls eyes>

That's a custom that began in Andalusia. Andalusia is a province in the southern part of Spain, in Europe on the Iberian Peninsula. Most of the sailors and those who "conquered" the New World, came from that area of Spain. They brought with them religious and cultural traditions, like this one, the Semana Santa (Holy Week) processions, as well as their Spanish dialect.

Typical, though. Love that "non-Southern" superiority complex so many seem to have.

:eusa_clap

 

[mingoslim]

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: <rolls eyes>
Love that "non-Southern" superiority complex so many seem to have.

Lighten up . . . just a joke . . .
And for the record, though I live in Ohio, I am a southerner by birth, and temperment, and would love to move back to my beautiful Appalachians . . .

 

[shoeshineboy]

you oughta see sharpetoys cut grass in that 30k hat....

i have two monti's and two cuenca....and one monti on the way from PB...i wore the cuenca everyday on the job and it was wonderful...this year i have move it to do the yard work...this is not because it is in bad shape...in fact i could wear it to work again for another season...however, for sun protection in the yard, this was the hat for me...

sharpetoys gave me a cuenca that I wear to work, now, along with the monti in the picture and the future one...

I also have one with holes weaved into it, that i love to wear in my leisure at the end of the day or bbq-ing...relaxing....etc....

(what is that one called Robert ?)

Art Fawcett blocked it for me...while in storage, the brim flattend out, but a quick shot of steam and the brim came back...

I have no problem recommending either a cuenca or a monti for everyday wear....the monti being a finer of the two....

check that photo again...i'm still the better looking of the two....lol :eusa_clap

mark the shoeshine boy

 

[HungaryTom]

you oughta see sharpetoys cut grass in that 30k hat....

Yes and once getting thirsty drinking all the water from the Optimo.

and keep constantly rolling and unrollining it and passing it through rings.

Once the 30k is spent for the hat, you don't have any bucks left for glasses to hold water or handkerchiefs to be rolled and unrolled ...lol

 

[Topper]

What might be helpful is a "How to spot the difference" set of Q&A

Whilst there are differences ( i.e. region made in, time taken to weave, the conditions (wet) of making it it)) in the process this is not easily recognisable in the final product.

Even with the weave, Cuenca have a number fo fine weaves, so their best and finest Cuenca could be as good as a low range Monti C. Basic hats are folded under and stitched, better ones are backwoven. With the edge binding - some MCs are bound and the rest are backwoven ( to my knowledge) but how can you tell the difference if it is a bound edge? - apart frrom wearing it for 10 years to see it it wears out

PanamaBob - Is there a set of points one can use to tell the differnce. OIr do we just have to trust the Shop- which if you have a decent hatter should be fine, though is the sales assistant is merely yourng teenager doing part time work..... can we trust they opinion

 

[Panamabob]

If you can provide the Q's I'll certainly help with the A's.

What might be helpful is a "How to spot the difference" set of Q&A

Whilst there are differences ( i.e. region made in, time taken to
weave, the conditions (wet) of making it it)) in the process this is not
easily recognisable in the final product.

At first glance, you might think a Cuenca natural is a Montecristi. I'll get some photos when I get some spare time.

Cuenca have a number fo fine weaves, so their best
and finest Cuenca could be as good as a low range Monti C.

Not entirely true. There are some very, very fine Cuenca hats out there.

Basic hats
are folded under and stitched, better ones are backwoven.

Again, a myth. I can get both from Cuenca. The difference: about $4.00 each.

With the edge
binding - some MCs are bound and the rest are backwoven ( to my
knowledge) but how can you tell the difference if it is a bound edge?

Bound with ribbon? If it is bound with ribbon, I'd bet that the guy who bound the edge made sure the brim was round. As a handmade item, Montecristi brims aren't always dead on.

PanamaBob - Is there a set of points one can use to tell the differnce.

The easiest way is to look into the crown and count the number of rings from the center of the crown out. If you have less than 4, Cuenca. If you have 5-6-7- up to 20+ Montecristi...no matter how fine the Cuenca is, the vueltas don't lie....nor does the brisa weave that some hatters sell as Montecristi.

OIr do we just have to trust the Shop- which if you have a decent
hatter should be fine, though is the sales assistant is merely yourng
teenager doing part time work..... can we trust they opinion

Even the old guard label Cuenca hats as Monte Cristi or Monticristi. When you inquire, they think you are a pud and they say that you don't know what you are talking about. Oh, but I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Topper]

Even the old guard label Cuenca hats as Monte Cristi or Monticristi. When you inquire, they think you are a pud and they say that you don't know what you are talking about. Oh, but I do know what I'm talking about.

I think we both know what is unsaid here - shameful, hence why a Q&A would be good.

The easiest way is to look into the crown and count the number of rings from the center of the crown out. If you have less than 4, Cuenca. If you have 5-6-7- up to 20+ Montecristi...no matter how fine the Cuenca is, the vueltas don't lie....nor does the brisa weave that some hatters sell as Montecristi.

This is good ! Though I will have to look up "brisa" weave. I guess this is the No1 way to tell the diff.


As to backwoven /understitched I will bow to your knowledge- what are the options:

Cuenca: backwoven /understitched /Bound
Monti: backwoven /Bound only

1) have you even seen a MC that is folded over and stitched?
2) if both are bound edge, then how can you tell the difference - you mention "As a handmade item, Montecristi brims aren't always dead on" But they could be... likewise the other way round - If an edge is bound, you cannot tell if it is a cuenca or MC, though probablilty is that if it is perfect round it could be a Cuenca?

As to colours bleaching etc, though problem here is that in a shop looking at a hat there is nothing to compare it with, apart from another same hat. Hence hard to tell the difference.

 

[Panamabob]

I think we both know what is unsaid here - shameful, hence why a Q&A would be good.

Yep. Same goes on with many hatters here in USA playing their Super Million XXXX Beaver Sterling Starling Otter games.

This is good ! Though I will have to look up "brisa" weave. I guess this is the No1 way to tell the diff.

Brisa weave:

Llano weave:

As to backwoven /understitched I will bow to your knowledge- what are the options:

Cuenca: backwoven /understitched /Bound
Monti: backwoven /Bound only

You can find them both either way. If you ask them in Montecristi to sew the brim, they will. Some hatters buy them and sew the brim to have consistent brim lengths. This isn't something you should even worry about if you want it any of the above ways, just specify it. If trying to decide if they are Montecristi, use the vueltas if you can't tell by the weave.

1) have you even seen a MC that is folded over and stitched?
2) if both are bound edge, then how can you tell the difference - you mention "As a handmade item, Montecristi brims aren't always dead on" But they could be... likewise the other way round - If an edge is bound, you cannot tell if it is a cuenca or MC, though probablilty is that if it is perfect round it could be a Cuenca?

1) Yes, not in Ecuador though.

2) I don't know. I've only seen 2 bound brim Montecristis because the customers had them done that way. The edge has nothing to do with telling if it is a Montecristi or Cuenca. I can tell right away if it is a Montecristi or Cuenca and that if in doubt it is by looking underneath at the vueltas.

As to colours bleaching etc, though problem here is that in a shop looking at a hat there is nothing to compare it with, apart from another same hat. Hence hard to tell the difference.

The Montecristi is always natural and has smell that I can't describe (sulphur, grassy? HELP?!?!), and more vueltas than 2,3, 4.

 

[Panamabob]

I'm sorry if these are too big. I'm up against the clock, again!

The photo below is a photo under the crown towards the morning sun. Cuenca Brisa Weave. You can see the two different weave patterns, Brisa and Llano Liso, in the hat. Brisa hat, backweave on brim.

Below: A fine Cuenca Llano weave. Notice that it has 4 vueltas out from the middle. Fine Llano liso, sewn back brim due to the style of the hat.

Below: A Cuenca Natural (unbleached) (Montecristi knockoff!!). Llano weave. You can only see 2-3 vueltas. Backweave on brim.

Below: A Montecristi fino. Sulpher bleached. Look at the vueltas,. 10 out from the middle. Llano weave. Backweave on brim.

 

[riccardo]

Sharpey!!

Hi to all, hi sharpey.
Bob asked me about brims and crown dimension for my new montecristi.
I like very much your montecristi ( you know) that you wear in the pics with shoeshineboy.
Could you tell me about its dimension, so I could try to imagine it on me and then give to Bob the correct dimension.

Many many thanks.
Riccardo.

 

[fedoralover]

Is this a Monticristi?

The sweatband says Monticristi, but the weave doesn't look like any Monti I've seen. And the price for that weave seems crazy. What say you straw experts?? Seller says it cost over $1400 new.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-C...W-/281534119374?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

fedoralover

 

[carouselvic]

save your money

 

[Tom-n-Perris]

After looking at all of the pictures of the Panama it sure looks like it was woven in Cuenca to me. Especially with the sewn down edge and the brand which is visible on the inside of the crown. I concur with carouselvic "save your money"