Did they try to promote Smoking in old movies? they sure smoked a lot

[green papaya]

I watch a lot of the old classics, especially the Film Noir Classics and some of these movies, every scene shows them smoking, or offering somebody a cigarette or asking for a light, or rewarding somebody by offering a cigarette, or smoking while doing some activity

they seemed to really be pushing the smoking in several scenes? do you think they were trying to promote smoking or help the tobbaco companies?

they seem to over do the smoking in those old movies?

 

[drcube01]

Anything 50% of the population partakes in will be well represented in the movies regardless. But it is known that RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris and the like paid movie studios to show cool, sexy people smoking, and they also got the US military to go along with it, too, making cigarettes part of the official daily ration for soldiers in the WWII era. Unfortunately, many more soldiers who fought in WWII were killed by cigarettes than by the enemy.

 

[LizzieMaine]

George Seldes exposed all of this in a series of articles published in 1940 in his "In Fact" newsletter. He was a relentless enemy of the tobacco industry, and just missed living long enough to see every single thing he'd exposed proven true by the release of documents forced under the tobacco industry consent decree in 1998. Big Tobacco, in league with the Boys From Marketing killed more people than the Nazis did -- and made them like it.

 

[BlueTrain]

There are a remarkable number of photos of soldiers in WWII from all sides under all conditions shown with a cigarette, even posing for a formal studio photo or standing in formation. I don't smoke but I guess smokers get something from tobacco. But given the possibility of a gruesome death in battle or from wounds or trying to survive in a prison camp, I suspect few worried about the health of smoking. It was no mystery to anyone that it was unhealthy or addictive, even thing. Even as far back as WWI they were being called coffin nails and cancer sticks. Yet some people who smoke still live into their 90s and die of something besides lung cancer. If you removed everything from your life that was fattening, sweet, risky, intoxicating or otherwise somehow unhealthy, some people wouldn't see the point of living and I would agree.

Nobody in my family ever died of cancer, yet they're all dead just the same.

 

[Fading Fast]

Fully agree with the above condemnation, but will add, smoking was beloved in a way that no amount of marketing could ever hope to achieve if people didn't really love it anyway. I recently noted in the "What are You Reading" thread, that in the Herman Wouk book "Youngblood Hawk" set in the late '40s/'50s and published in '61, smoking is embraced with a passion that is stunning by today's standards.

Looked at from today's perspective, the book - which is not at all about smoking - reads like a love letter to smoking. The characters embrace it with passion - cigars and cigarettes are smoked, held, shared with gusto / they love talking in smoked-filled rooms, talking through the haze - you'd think it was a cure for and not the cause of cancer.

Unless novelists like Wouk were paid by tobacco companies to write that way, I think it does reflect the deep love many had for smoking. To be sure, part of that was the result of the pernicious marketing we discuss above (and all the venal actions the tobacco companies and Madison Avenue engaged it), but still, people really loved it.

What amazes me is that away form the health issues (otherwise, "how was the play Mrs. Lincoln"), it simply is a revolting habit. You - your breath, your clothes, your hair, your house, your car - all stink (and stink worse over time). Your teeth and skin look disgusting and more disgusting over time. How did something like that ever become that popular?

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's how.

 

[BlueTrain]

Oh, it became popular 300 years before then.

Bob Newhart did a hilarious routine in which he was talking on the phone to Sir Walter Raleigh, who was describing tobacco and smoking to him. The idiocy of the habit becomes even more obvious with the routine. But remember, more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette.

Another country & western song used advertising slogans in describing a girlfriend, some of which were from tobacco ads. "So round, so firm, so fully packed, that's my gal."

 

[LizzieMaine]

The fact that nicotine is an addictive poison also had something to do with popularizing the habit. I'm partial to King James's condemnation of smoking back in 1604: "A custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse."

His majesty had the advantage of being able to summarily condemn Ye Boyse to the headsman's block. If only.

 

[green papaya]

I agree nicotine is an addictive poison, after living with a chain smoker for years, I can see how addictive smoking can get

they have to have a cigarette before and after anything and everything that happens through the day and night

the telephone rings, or after a call, they have to have a smoke, during any road trip that takes longer than 30 minutes they need to stop for a smoke.

before bed, during night , in the morning, during a meal, after a meal, before driving, during driving, during a break or after driving, before entering a grocery store or restaurant, after leaving the grocery store or restaurant

anytime they feel nervous or get exited about something they need a smoke

if they go fishing, they smoke a cigarette during and especially after catching a fish since it cause some exitement = need a smoke

before and during any type of physical activity, going for a walk or just walking across the parking lot, they will need a smoke

they cant even watch a movie without taking several breaks for a smoke, the only thing that stops them for a few hours is if they go to sleep.

 

[ChiTownScion]

The fact that nicotine is an addictive poison also had something to do with popularizing the habit. I'm partial to King James's condemnation of smoking back in 1604: "A custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse."

His majesty had the advantage of being able to summarily condemn Ye Boyse to the headsman's block. If only.

The man who founded the university I attended (Before it was a university, it was a "Normal School:" perhaps they anticipated my arrival and decided that normality should be abandoned.) was not a bona fide academic: he was a transplanted New England schoolmaster with no academic credentials. His comment was that, ".. a cigar is like a camel in that both smell vile."

 

[LizzieMaine]

I used to have a neighbor who would sit out on his stoop every morning at 6:30 and smoke a nickel-stinker from the gas station down the street. The fumes would blow across into my bedroom window, and I'd wake up retching from the smell.

I used to work with a guy in radio who had the habit of *chewing* those same kind of cigars. He'd brag about how he'd given up smoking, all the while sucking on this limp, saggy, disgusting stub of a thing. "Spit is a horrid word," indeed.

Radio comedian Fred Allen never smoked, but he had the habit of chewing "Tuck's Plug" tobacco while on the air. It was disconcerting for guest stars to step up to the microphone and see him with this big chaw bulging in his cheek like he was a third base coach. (He was only 60 years old when he died.)

 

[Frunobulax]

As to the original question, while undoubtedly promoted and in cahoots with the tobacco industry, it can't be denied that cigarettes, cigars, etc. are great performing props. They can be used to bond two characters or send a message. You can point with them, make gestures, roll them around in your mouth and the like. They can set a scene, punctuate a speech, and they give the performer something to do with his/her hands while in action.

From that point of view, they're great.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[MisterCairo]

Nobody in my family ever died of cancer, yet they're all dead just the same.

I've watched both parents and an aunt die from cancer.

I've relatives who went to bed one night and did not wake up.

I know which death I prefer.

 

[BlueTrain]

I haven't made my mind up yet but I've whittled down the selection quite a bit.

In one video of Casablanca, there are some pre-"action" bits and one of them shows a crewman blowing extra smoke into the scene using a kind of rubber syringe. I suppose that was the effect the director wanted but I don't recall any of the scenes being particularly smoky. I'd probably notice it in the next viewing.

And then there's drinking. A few movies, such as the first Thin Man, show a lot of drinking, at least by the men.

 

[Frunobulax]

I've watched both parents and an aunt die from cancer.

I've relatives who went to bed one night and did not wake up.

I know which death I prefer.

Shot by a jealous husband? [emoji41]


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As to the original question, while undoubtedly promoted and in cahoots with the tobacco industry, it can't be denied that cigarettes, cigars, etc. are great performing props. They can be used to bond two characters or send a message. You can point with them, make gestures, roll them around in your mouth and the like. They can set a scene, punctuate a speech, and they give the performer something to do with his/her hands while in action.

From that point of view, they're great.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

That's the reason so many comedians used cigars onstage. George Burns, Robert Woolsey, Bobby Clark, Ken Murray, Groucho Marx, ad infinitum. All used cigars to help time their jokes. Setup, puff cigar, jab air with cigar, punchline.

 

[MisterCairo]

Take away a man's cigar, and this is the result:

https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/winston-churchill-by-yousef-karsh/

 

[MikeKardec]

In one video of Casablanca, there are some pre-"action" bits and one of them shows a crewman blowing extra smoke into the scene using a kind of rubber syringe. I suppose that was the effect the director wanted but I don't recall any of the scenes being particularly smoky. I'd probably notice it in the next viewing.

Product placement is an old technique for helping to finance films. It became noticeable in the 1980s because it was suddenly in your face as advertisers wanted to see what they were paying serious $$$ for on the screen. Prior to that I'm guessing (and given what others have said here) that it was more of a studio deal and spread more subtly across a wider range of productions. I'm guessing it was more of a handshake sort of thing than something that had to be clearly proved so as not to be in breach of a contract.

Smoke, besides cigarette smoke, has been a big part of movie lighting and "atmosphere" for a LONG time. Fog filters tend to look pretty crumby and so nearly every interior you've seen in the last 50 years (and quite a few before that) had effect smoke blown in, ever so lightly, to enhance the lighting and allow you to subtly "see" the air. You don't really see it, or it doesn't really register, but it's there and it sucks to have to work in it ... it used to suck harder, the new "smoke" is less obnoxious.

You are okay in a film until you have a character light up a cigarette. Then keeping it the right length for the shot (often out of order) becomes a continuity nightmare. When I worked in films ('80s, '90s, early '00s), smoking wasn't too popular and everyone considered it to be a pain in the ass to keep track of. We worked in thirds, you needed to know what third of the cigarette you were in for each part of the scene.

Once you commit to a cigarette in a scene, you are better off to keep smoking in case you need to cut the scene together out of order. Having the wrong third is a lot less of a problem than if the actor has no cigarette at all. Actors who smoke, of course, like to smoke on screen because they get stuck doing the same thing over and over for hours. If they don't smoke on screen they'll need a cigarette break eventually.

"Blocking," meaning the actors movement on the stage or set, is the greatest friend an actor ever had. Movement unlocks subtleties in the performance that nothing else can. I used controlled blocking in rough spots even in Radio Dramas, it's nearly always the way to get the missing performance. If an actor has got to sit or stand relatively still, if they are minimized in their physical expressiveness, a cigarette is a GREAT prop. Having an action that is separate from the text, whether it is a woman washing dishes after dinner, a soldier cleaning a weapon, an artist doing a drawing, while they share dialog about a subject that is closer in meaning to the plot is the road to naturalism. It immediately creates a 300% improvement. A cigarette is less complex and intentional than those things just listed but it works and, at the time, is was a common enough thing to do. While I believe fewer men smoke, guys who do tend to smoke MUCH more compulsively than women, so I'm guessing some of the big stars of the day insisted on it. I've known few male smokers who didn't have one going pretty constantly.

I cannot tell you the number of times when doing Radio Dramas I've taken what seemed to be a very mediocre scene and transposed it into something alive and full of subtext by adding pauses, the sound of a character moving in their chair or shifting their feet. You can't add a cigarette after the fact in a movie but it can give an actor the time, distraction, and subconscious mannerisms they need to make a great performance.

All that said, don't smoke, it'll kill ya! Professionals smoke tobacco free cigarettes now, I actually doubt they are the least bit healthy but it makes them feel better about doing it.

 

[BlueTrain]

One of the things that makes radio drama (and comedy) work is the sound effects and they're still used, both artificial (real sound effects) or natural. But sometimes it comes out a little funny, as in the way those long PBS news articles seem to have the sound of people walking on gravel or something. But the sound effects in old radio shows were good. In fact, the added sound effects in slapstick comedy sometimes made the scene. Often as not the sound wasn't really accurate, like the sound of cars in old radio shows, but they still helped set the scene.

I just don't see how actors and actresses can remember their lines. After that, everything else seems easy.

 

[scotrace]

Cigarettes are great props in real life, giving you something to do with your hands. They're also a thing to share with another. "Here, let's share this custom a moment."
Once you've gotten past your body's natural rejection of the smoke, the smoke, and the act of smoking, is truly relaxing, even though it isn't chemically something that should relax you. A cigar is even better, a pipe more so. There's just something about taking a moment to create this cloud of smoke that slows the day for a bit. Rather like watching the fire burn in the fireplace.
When having an evening out in a nice restaurant, the ashtrays with lipstick-kissed butts are a bit romantic when added to well-dressed companions, music, cocktails, etc. But that's the stuff of fantasy and not a real thing.
In the marketing department-created old movie world, cigarettes create a mood, an atmosphere. They add elegance and sophistication to any scene.
Conversely, in our modern movie world, a fictional character with a cigarette automatically gives us to know that that character is either a bad guy, has endured some crap that has left him not giving any chucks, or is also addicted to something harder to quit. Never elegance. Though I LOVE that the President and First Lady in House of Cards have just one smoke together at the end of the day, sitting in a large window. It lets us into an intimate, secret moment when they're doing something they shouldn't, a small thing. But they are both always doing things they shouldn't. Brilliant.
Cigarettes in movies have given us some of the best moments in film. The first time we see Rick Blaine in Casablanca, he picks up a smoke and takes a puff in a way that left millions of young men trying to emulate him. In Now Voyager, Paul Henreid and Bette Davis "have a cigarette on it" and it became legend.
Yes, cigarettes are toxic, we all know that. I can't pass a smoking person without gagging at the stink now. But they were very, very popular for a very long time for good reasons. I was never a "MUST HAVE ONE" guy, but I sure enjoyed the occasional smoke, and surely miss it. My SO and I stopped altogether awhile back for health reasons, though I doubt one or two a week was any more dangerous than the smoke coming from the three chemical plants in my town.