Did Schott buy Shinki? Another Shinki STYLE: P617H

[cbez]

Schott has some great jackets. They also have a lot of ugly crap and a lot of uninspiring leather. I think the overall perception gets dragged down by that.

Maybe the smaller makers are pushing them more to invest in better materials and more interesting patterns, which is good for everybody.

 

[El Marro]

My Mulholland is probably the worst pattern I own. For some reason this was the catch of the day for a while, and I coughed up 3 grand based on the enthusiasm I found here. But it was a badly fitting pattern of on on old cal. So even though the stitching is f very precise, it's a lousy jacket.

I am so lucky that they don’t make these in my size. I fell in love with the Mulholland at first sight and I would have bought one by now if I thought it would fit. And you were right that this jacket was the crème de la crème for a little while, and I haven’t heard much about it since.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I am so lucky that they don’t make these in my size. I fell in love with the Mulholland at first sight and I would have bought one by now if I thought it would fit. And you were right that this jacket was the crème de la crème for a little while, and I haven’t heard much about it since.

I think a big part of that is that Freewheelers simply has not made Leather Jackets in a minute and they won't be for the foreseeable future. I actually believe the Mulholland is quite a good pattern. It doesn't fit everyone of course, but man does it fit a lot of people extremely well. When I was heavier it fit me amazingly well.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Dude I wasn't targeting you personally in the beginning. I was actually one of the first people to raise some doubts a bout hinel because of the wonky stitching on my own jacket. I brought it up on this forum, initially without revealing the brand because I didn't want to deride any one specifically. I got peer pressured intoo revealing the brand, and frankly kind of regret starting that whole thing. Because I like my himel jacket. But it not better made than my shinki schotts.

I think there are a number of people, not all but some, who think that the the Japanese brands are "better" quality than companies like Scott, vanson or even aero. I disagree. They are certainly more expensive. But even disregarding price I don't see them as inherently more desirable. My Mulholland is probably the worst pattern I own. For some reason this was the catch of the day for a while, and I coughed up 3 grand based on the enthusiasm I found here. But it was a badly fitting pattern of on on old cal. So even though the stitching is f very precise, it's a lousy jacket. I have a Simmons bolt I got from Mr frown . Superior in every way except stitch count. My point is that Schott and others make nice products, and given similar materials can be just as nice as any of the small repro brands. They have compromises, but they are brand decisions, not quality decisions. Freewheelers does the some, as someone 6'2 200 pounds, I can tell you that they are not trying hard to design for me. If schott used the same stitching as free wheelers they would probably sell 1 % more jackets. Most people who buy a leather jacket don't look that closely. It wouldn't make the jackets more durable, or fit better or drape better, so why change what they have been doing for 100 years? It's not that they're consciously making lower quality, it's just not how they, or I define quality.

Ton in regards to vanson, they do what they do very well. They don't really make fashion jackets, not that their jackets are unfashionable, but they aren't shooting for that market. Schott clearly is making some effort in that regard and I think that just because they don't have the cachet of real McCoys doesn't mean that if judged without bias ,that a schott isn't superior. I prefer my 628h to my mobster, although very different styles. Not saying vansin should or shld t seek out that market. Just saying if they did I bet they could

Dude I wasn't targeting you personally in the beginning. I was actually one of the first people to raise some doubts a bout hinel because of the wonky stitching on my own jacket. I brought it up on this forum, initially without revealing the brand because I didn't want to deride any one specifically. I got peer pressured intoo revealing the brand, and frankly kind of regret starting that whole thing. Because I like my himel jacket. But it not better made than my shinki schotts.

I think there are a number of people, not all but some, who think that the the Japanese brands are "better" quality than companies like Scott, vanson or even aero. I disagree. They are certainly more expensive. But even disregarding price I don't see them as inherently more desirable. My Mulholland is probably the worst pattern I own. For some reason this was the catch of the day for a while, and I coughed up 3 grand based on the enthusiasm I found here. But it was a badly fitting pattern of on on old cal. So even though the stitching is f very precise, it's a lousy jacket. I have a Simmons bolt I got from Mr frown . Superior in every way except stitch count. My point is that Schott and others make nice products, and given similar materials can be just as nice as any of the small repro brands. They have compromises, but they are brand decisions, not quality decisions. Freewheelers does the some, as someone 6'2 200 pounds, I can tell you that they are not trying hard to design for me. If schott used the same stitching as free wheelers they would probably sell 1 % more jackets. Most people who buy a leather jacket don't look that closely. It wouldn't make the jackets more durable, or fit better or drape better, so why change what they have been doing for 100 years? It's not that they're consciously making lower quality, it's just not how they, or I define quality.

Ton in regards to vanson, they do what they do very well. They don't really make fashion jackets, not that their jackets are unfashionable, but they aren't shooting for that market. Schott clearly is making some effort in that regard and I think that just because they don't have the cachet of real McCoys doesn't mean that if judged without bias ,that a schott isn't superior. I prefer my 628h to my mobster, although very different styles. Not saying vansin should or shld t seek out that market. Just saying if they did I bet they could do as good a job as the Japanese

Would be really interesting to see photos of you in both the Freewheelers and Simmons Bilt.

 

[ton312]

I am so lucky that they don’t make these in my size. I fell in love with the Mulholland at first sight and I would have bought one by now if I thought it would fit. And you were right that this jacket was the crème de la crème for a little while, and I haven’t heard much about it since.

No doubt you would easily fit in a 44”. The Mulholland was probably the most popular jacket in the classifieds for sale that I have ever seen. A new ad trying to move on was almost a weekly occurrence. I have never seen a single brand jacket listed more times for sale on this forum in my time here. Count yourself lucky you didn’t end up among that bunch I’d say.
Personally I never understood it. It’s not even half the Cal it impersonates. Not even half.

 

[JackBroChill]

The Perfecto has two hand pockets. I never really appreciated this feature until I got a jacket with only one lol. Comparing the two that I have, the Schott horsehide is thicker, heavier, blacker, grainier and shinier than the Eastman’s lighter weight, matte hide. The Schott feels pretty indestructible (which is why I ride in it) and has been fairly resistant to wear, break-in etc. I have a size 44 in both and prefer the ELMC pattern to that of the 613sh. The Roadstar has a little more room in the shoulders and it’s certainly more V shaped.. The horsehide is more forgiving and will break in and show wear much faster than the Schott. I’d have trouble picking between the two if I could only keep one. That said, I’ve had quite a few jackets come and go. Through it all, some variant of Schott Perfecto has usually been my #1 jacket.

Went back and tried on both today and pretty much concur with all of this. Love the shine and depth of the Schott shinki and would love to have my double rider option be a Schott perfecto, but I just think the cut of the Eastman fits me better (I much prefer the V shape and length).

The Eastman feels a bit 'tighter' through the. body but the shoulders might be better than the Schott, and the Schott kind of bulges out in the chest/belly in an unflattering way when seen from the side (though that might subside/deflate as the leather gets more wear).

Forgive the formal attire but at least it might be a good outfit to use to determine fit.

 

[JackBroChill]

Went back and tried on both today and pretty much concur with all of this. Love the shine and depth of the Schott shinki and would love to have my double rider option be a Schott perfecto, but I just think the cut of the Eastman fits me better (I much prefer the V shape and length).

Forgive the formal attire but at least it might be a good outfit to use to determine fit.

And from the back

 

[JackBroChill]

Jack , I have the original shinki schott and the 628 h as well as the Eastman. In my opinion there is no comparison, the schotts are much nicer. I did have a stitch failure at the armpit on thee first but it was not a leather tear and was fixed by Schott. Some people here just can't accept Schott as a quality jacket. If the stitching on either of my himel jackets showed up on a schott it would be considered proof of the poor quality of the maker. But for a himel it's just the idiosyncrasies of the being hand made. Schotts are not custom made, the patterns need to have allowances for variations in human builds, nevertheless they manage to nail it on most of their patterns, even while trying to take into account that not everyone shared the fedora lounge archetype of what a jacket should look like. But if himel creates a monstrosity it's because the buyer wears skinny jeans and therefore must be a moron.

Just compared the two today and I have to agree the Schott shinki beats the Eastman hide for my money (I'm no expert) as it's much thicker and feels a bit 'richer' just as a leather. Frankly the thinner weight of the Eastman might make it more easy to wear, depending on what you're looking for....

I'm still pretty torn on which look I prefer but I think comparing the two in the photos I just posted, fit wise it might go to the Eastman.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I think they both fit fairly well, but I would agree the Eastman looks like a better fit for you if it's not too snug in the chest. One of the photos showed it pulling in the chest, but if it doesn't feel too tight there, I'd say I agree the Eastman looks like a better slim fit.

The Schott actually looks quite good zipped up though aside from the bottom opening having a lot of room.

 

[Aloysius]

And from the back

The one at the right with the western yoke and pointed kidney panel seems to fit you much better. The other one is pulling wildly at the back, like when I put on a jacket from many pounds ago (as I just did an hour ago to see if it fits).


I don't know which is which but the shape should narrow it down for you.

 

[JackBroChill]

The one at the right with the western yoke and pointed kidney panel seems to fit you much better. The other one is pulling wildly at the back, like when I put on a jacket from many pounds ago (as I just did an hour ago to see if it fits).


I don't know whicIh is which but the shape should narrow it down for you.

That's the Schott (with the yoke).

I think they both fit fairly well, but I would agree the Eastman looks like a better fit for you if it's not too snug in the chest. One of the photos showed it pulling in the chest, but if it doesn't feel too tight there, I'd say I agree the Eastman looks like a better slim fit.

The Schott actually looks quite good zipped up though aside from the bottom opening having a lot of room.

I didn't try on the size up (46) in the Eastman, but maybe I should have if the sleeves and length aren't too long. I think the arm movement taking the photo might make the pull look more dramatic, both in the front and from the back (I should have taken a few with the Eastman hands free for a pure 1 to 1 comparison) but in the moment it 'felt' like it was a better fit but maybe that's just more about the length and v shape.

The Schott certainly felt good too, but almost too 'full' through the middle leading to the extra 'belly' room sticking out in front as seen from the side.

I also am in the process of losing some weight but also lifting weights (though not bodybuilding by any means) so while I am fitting into slightly tighter clothes than previously, the chest and upper area might not really slim down as compared to the belly. But counting on weight changes for fit is a fool's errand.

Perhaps the search shall just have to go on....would love for something to fit akin to @dudewuttheheck's Vanson C2, which the Eastman seems to be closer in cut to.

 

[Aloysius]

I don't think that's 'extra' room per se; it's allowance for what the belt will cinch down.

When I had my custom Johnson made (my own pattern and everything) we intentionally didn't do it so it would be snug on me without a belt because that's the point of the belt/cinches.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

That's the Schott (with the yoke).



I didn't try on the size up (46) in the Eastman, but maybe I should have if the sleeves and length aren't too long. I think the arm movement taking the photo might make the pull look more dramatic, both in the front and from the back (I should have taken a few with the Eastman hands free for a pure 1 to 1 comparison) but in the moment it 'felt' like it was a better fit but maybe that's just more about the length and v shape.

The Schott certainly felt good too, but almost too 'full' through the middle leading to the extra 'belly' room sticking out in front as seen from the side.

I also am in the process of losing some weight but also lifting weights (though not bodybuilding by any means) so while I am fitting into slightly tighter clothes than previously, the chest and upper area might not really slim down as compared to the belly. But counting on weight changes for fit is a fool's errand.

Perhaps the search shall just have to go on....would love for something to fit akin to @dudewuttheheck's Vanson C2, which the Eastman seems to be closer in cut to.

Yeah maybe trying one size up in the Eastman might be good. Like I said, I like the look of the Eastman from the front a little bit more, but not by a lot especially when both are zipped. If it feels constricting, then the Schott is the better fit. But if it doesn't feel too tight, I think it's better. I agree it's pulling at the back too though which is concerning.

 

[Rgcards]

Taper on the Eastman is flattering but if you gain muscle mass from lifting it might be too tight

 

[JackBroChill]

Taper on the Eastman is flattering but if you gain muscle mass from lifting it might be too tight

Yeah I may go back and try the 46, the front length is half an inch more and sleeve length an inch more (though the same length as the Schott). Length could be a deal breaker if it kills the shape but we'll see.

Frankly hoping for a Buco J-22 to come back up in the classified as that checks all the boxes but those seem few and far between outside of the last few weeks having a few pop up.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Taper on the Eastman is flattering but if you gain muscle mass from lifting it might be too tight

That's a good point too! I've lost a couple jackets that way.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Yeah I may go back and try the 46, the front length is half an inch more and sleeve length an inch more (though the same length as the Schott). Length could be a deal breaker if it kills the shape but we'll see.

Frankly hoping for a Buco J-22 to come back up in the classified as that checks all the boxes but those seem few and far between outside of the last few weeks having a few pop up.

Original J-22s aren't impossibly rare, but not super common. I can tell you that they are worth the wait, though.

 

[JackBroChill]

Original J-22s aren't impossibly rare, but not super common. I can tell you that they are worth the wait, though.

They sure seem like it (worth the wait that is). I much prefer a wool lining that both the Roadster and Schott have to a quilted one like the J-24. Fit might be better for my purposes as well.

Still kicking myself for only being about an hour or so late to the one posted last week for a screaming deal. But oh well, maybe it wouldn't have fit anyhow.

Any suggestions on where to keep an eye out other than the classifieds here and alerts on eBay? Not sure if Japanese proxy sites have alerts capability but idk how many 44's get posted on those in the first place.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

They sure seem like it (worth the wait that is). I much prefer a wool lining that both the Roadster and Schott have to a quilted one like the J-24. Fit might be better for my purposes as well.

Still kicking myself for only being about an hour or so late to the one posted last week for a screaming deal. But oh well, maybe it wouldn't have fit anyhow.

Any suggestions on where to keep an eye out other than the classifieds here and alerts on eBay? Not sure if Japanese proxy sites have alerts capability but idk how many 44's get posted on those in the first place.

Keep checking the Japanese sites and if you live near LA come to Inspiration in April. In person events like that often have some amazing jackets.

 

[Marc mndt]

Went back and tried on both today and pretty much concur with all of this. Love the shine and depth of the Schott shinki and would love to have my double rider option be a Schott perfecto, but I just think the cut of the Eastman fits me better (I much prefer the V shape and length).

The Eastman feels a bit 'tighter' through the. body but the shoulders might be better than the Schott, and the Schott kind of bulges out in the chest/belly in an unflattering way when seen from the side (though that might subside/deflate as the leather gets more wear).

Forgive the formal attire but at least it might be a good outfit to use to determine fit.

In terms of fit the ELMC wins hands down, it's much more flattering on you than the Schott. At first I thought that was because the ELMC's thinner leather drapes better new out of the box but that's not it. It's the shoulder width of the Schott that is too narrow while the sleeves and body are too long.

I don't think you need to size up. I owned the Roadstar myself and it fits you like it for me. Snug yet very comfortable, providing great movability. You are going to have a hard time finding a better fitting jacket. This ELMC is perfect.