did iT...(guLp!)...ordered a new EASTMAN luftwaffe jacket

[johnnyjohnny]

oooh, lively talk. got a few more words out of laconic hdaddy than in a couple months of his spartan and tersely dry posts...and i always feel talk is good, even if people disagree

i'm always happy to be swayed...love it in fact, which is why i solicited info on whether it was not in fact until aviator jackets in ww2 that the strip of a windflap became a general feature of motorcycle jackets...and motorcycle jackets did come along before ww2...

not that this has more cosmic importance than the health care debate, but for our niche enjoyment here, i'd welcome evidence either agreeing with me, or not...but stating that i confuse things doesn't really answer the question, tho it might be fun

as for btank's thinking the 'concept' of a luftwaffe jacket is a 'dud'...that's oh so cool with me...it's simply a subjective viewpoint...i say potaytoes, you say tomahtoes...weird world if we all agreed even on half of anything

i've seen so many luftwaffe jackets on ebay and historical websites that i'd be wrong to pretend the eastman version was anywhere near the predominant jacket version chosen by fliers of germany in ww2...it's probably way down there...but for some reason 'hollywood' and jacket makers such as eastman chose it to represent 'the' luftwaffe in ww2...probably because it has a clean cut and a bad boy look...i happen to think it's about the best looking jacket around...but subjectivity again

hope that's not too confusing

 

[BellyTank]

Yes- and I've seen so many "actual LW jackets" and own so many books
and have been a militaria enthusiast for many years and also seen so much "stuff" on eBay and elsewhere.

I would still consider the "Hartmann" jacket to be more of a "Luftwaffe jacket",
considering what is known and what is commercially available, even though we have discussed the best truth we know, over and over on the Lounge.

BUT- I do understand exactly what you mean about THAT jacket, your likes,
your angle and where you are coming from.

Let's SEE that jacket!


B
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[johnnyjohnny]

thanks for understanding my obsession...i am sooo obsessive

and the jacket apparently is at the post office today, so later i'll get over there...an immediate reaction will likely follow this evening, and pix in the next few days as i can take them

aside from the "luftwaffe' (i'll use it in quotes when chatting with you btank), my choice for best looking jacket goes to the venerable g-1, which i adore ...mine is a currently produced milspec excelled, made under current mil contract, and aside from not having the korean war scalloped pocket flaps, is darn close in everything to the current gorgeous gibson and barnes offering. i do have a cultish and rare flight apparel industries almost unused 80s g-1 which is superb...alas a bit tight around the neck when fully zipped, so at some point i'll be selling that...but the g-1s, going back to the MAs, are design masterpieces that even ralph lauren or hugo boss couldn't improve upon...though during the actual war boss was making ss and hitler youth uniforms (boo!)

aside from the earlier double row button german pilot jackets of ww2 (pre-1940 apparently), i'd be curious as to your own personal favorites...not because of any particular rational reasons, but (like me with the 'luftwaffe' jacket) out of pure obsessional subjective attraction

and do excuse the 'storybook' style of my post
;D

 

[BellyTank]

G-1s and the earlier models have a great fit and offer great mobility,
given the fit and armpit gussets/construction.

I have had a couple of '40s/'50s examples, M-422 and 55J14...
but I think the more modern ones, '60s and up are comparatively,
somewhat inferior in fit, styling and detailing.

There are larger examples to be found in the earlier models.

*To answer your question- I DO think of the "French Cycle Jacket"
and the early styles of German and European "Motorcycle jackets",
yes, the double breasted style, as being more classically LW,
as the early times of WW2, the Battle of Britain, Russian front and Afrika
made many German Aces and heroes and the German pilot was more stylish, gentlemanly and marketable. The early flight-wear ensembles (breeches, tall boots, cravat and jaunty, stylish, individualistic combinations)seem to capture a more romantic image of the flying Teutonic Knight.
Riding breeches and short waisted leather jacket, or "Kanalhosen/Channel suit trousers", and short leather jacket cut a striking and memorable image.

Later in the war, the flight suits (including jackets) became practical items, made to military design, less attractive.

As we have discussed at length, Luftwaffe issued leather flight jackets
came late in the war, were generally part of a flight suit, were not so pretty, not at all like the early MC and utility jackets we like.

To my sensibilities and aesthetic, the early jacket styles are more
evocative of the era and its clothing style and the Luftwaffe.
The Eastman Luftwaffe jacket seems more typical of later styles, although you can find images of LW pilots wearing similar examples.
Another "issue" I have is that the fit of the Eastman jacket is not like the fit of those (similar) styles worn during the war- or perhaps how they were worn. The wartime ones seem (to me) to be of lighter leather, less bulky and worn tighter and shorter- which seems more "of the era".
I could be wrong here, as I have not seen ALL images of LW pilots in leather jackets.

These are my thoughts about "whatt embodies a LW leather flight jacket"-
I probably have more, possibly more logical, or sensible thoughts but this is all I could transcribe into text right now.

This is not a hard and fast subject and my opinion, although some of it is based on certain facts and logic is just that- my opinion.


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[johnnyjohnny]

thanks for your opinion...a certainly studied one

post office not open yet so haven't picked up my "LW" as of yet...
but wanted to comment on your observation on how the later variety of jackets were worn fit-wise, late in the war in pictures that we see

i forget if it was you in the 'eagles dare' thread who mentioned hans joachim marseille (pic below bragging about one of his maneuvers) the recognized german ace:

there was a pilot who had the iconic look...however, many of the rest of them looked gangly and rather peeled into their LW jackets, that came up too far on their arms and too high on their waste, imho...a little hi and titey in the below pic if you ask me:

which reminded me of a 30s pic of barely pre-ww2 u.s. pilots wearing a-2s that was on the fedlounge recently...some folks here seemed a bit taken aback on how many of the pilots, most in fact, wore their a-2s (like i prefer) a bit loose, or at the least not peeled on...i see so many middle aged men on the forum (of which i'm one) try to stuff themselves into skintite leathers and claim they are wearing them in accordance as to how they were meant to be worn (i don't do that)

i like to think the pic on fedlounge of that group of airmen shows skintite fit was not the only way these jackets were worn...tho the germans did seem to prefer their jackets spraypainted on

the eastman is made of horsehide, and allegedly tanned/processed in the fashion of the actual jackets of the era, so that may give it that look of the times...i'll certainly let you and others know (and eventually see) what it looks like in pix other than the beautiful shots on the eastman website, as well as on a mid-aged guy like moi

thanks again for your observations

 

[BellyTank]

Johhny- the "small-fitting" leather jacket and high-waisted trouser look,
is, for many, a classic, almost cliche of the way we wore, in the '30s
and one which is difficult to emulate, for the modern fuller figured enthusiast.

This is partly why I gave up on the A-2 jackets- I couldn't get the look that I like, so saw sense and stopped spending there. Also, read the next paragraph,
for another reason-

Beware of the "vendor blurb" it can be self serving and sometimes quite misleading- when vendors state that "this jacket" is EXACTLY like those from... made EXACTLY...., etc. It is a widespread tactic, serving businesses
which will not, or cannot use authentic materials or designs and cut their garments "to suit" those who are going to spend.
It appeals to those/us optimistic and sometimes unknowing enthusiasts.


B
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[johnnyjohnny]

will review eastman luftwaffe in separate thread

thanks btank...wasn't at all trying to put down those who are my age and like wearing these military jackets...but sheeesh, even the hipper kids today wear oversize brando and military jackets...i did that when i was in high school during the vietnam "conflict"...i was wearing army surplus navy denim shirts and m-65 jackets...these things don't have to be floodwater sized to be worn...i love a-2s, g-1s, the luftwaffe, but refuse to stuff myself into them like a roasted pig

which doesn't mean one negates the beautiful military fit of these jackets...they are squared off, and have a nice 'v' taper, which looks excellent if slightly oversized

sorry if i've vented...as for the eastman luftwaffe, i'll just say here one doesn't have to worry about manufacturer using overblown descriptive rhetoric...this thing blows away even how eastman's site and pictures describe it...but i'll give a review in a review thread if that's ok, starting with a description, and measurements of my size 46, cut, and other very specific, objective, and subjective thoughts...pictures will come later on that thread as i take them

it is the best jacket i've ever purchased, ever had...it looks like it came from a time warp new...i love it

 

[Stearmen]

G1

Can't wait to see your jacket! I have to admit I prefer the G1 to the A2, they are just more Comfortable with the collar and satin lining! As for my favorite Luftwaffe jacket, the Hartman in brown. Just needs a wind flap, I could wear one of my six foot scarves behind the zipper. I am trying to get away from black on my bikes, even though I have three Harley jackets, only bought one. A few years ago we were at another bike rally, when my friend said half joking, "I fill sorry for all the black cows in the world" now I think of that every time I put one of my jackets on!

 

[johnnyjohnny]

stearman, i feel your pain...or the cow's pain...

of all things i was destined to be a vegetarian who loves leather jackets...a year or so i decided to overcome the temptation and just get used jackets...but when i couldn't find my size in eastman's on ebay, i had to give in

i know u.s. horse is all natural death horse, as mandated by u.s. congress, so getting a modern u.s. horse jacket, like the fine stuff from cockpitusa (their ww2 mil spec replicas) is kinder than cow jackets if you can afford it

i thought my eastman luftwaffe would be cow, but then i found out it was horse...i feel some shame, as i'm guessing europe does not use natural death horse...but i don't want to ask gary at eastman for fear of the answer

so this may be the last new jacket for me, unless i get the cockpitusa natural death horse, or other u.s. natural death horse

i will be posting pix by end of the weekend on the REVEiW thread i started on this jacket...unlike the beautiful but generically 'perfect' production shots on the eastman site, i think seeing the jacket in a normal setting, not perfectly lit, will paradoxically show how 'real' and beautiful it is...

 

[garzo]

Hey Johnny,
Great jacket. My good friend has exactly the same one and it is one fine coat.
I dig the blue velvet lining.
Personally, I prefer the rock'n'roll aspect of the LL Dominator (and the killer red lining) and am about to pull the trigger on one.
I know you had a Dominator for a while. Question: Did you order a custom Dominator or stock off-the-rack 46?
I wear a 46 too but it sounds as if Lewis Leathers customizes all their jackets.

 

[garzo]

By the way, you might have seen this new version of the "Luftwaffe" jacket -- perhaps the only one made on American soil -- by U.S. Wings. It appears to be based more on the Hartmann-style jacket, with similarly goofy pockets.

https://www.uswings.com/sigseries5.asp#CLASSIC

Funny thing is, U.S. Wings no longer refers to this jacket as a Luftwaffe or German jacket at all. In fact, when it came out earlier this year, it was called the Fighter Jacket or Fighting Ace Jacket, but is now known simply as "The Classic," like the soda pop, and you can't get more American than that. (Just watch Billy Wilder's "One, Two, Three")

 

[johnnyjohnny]

Did you order a custom Dominator or stock off-the-rack 46?
I wear a 46 too but it sounds as if Lewis Leathers customizes all their jackets.---garzo

hi...i did have the pleasure of the dominator, and it was a pleasure, and it was more of a rocker jacket...the only changes i made to it, and at no cost, was to have the waist brought in by one or two inches (as i've said about the eastman luftwaffe, no need to do that if you have a larger drop from chest to waist as i do since eastman's luftwaffe is definitely cut with an athletic fit...but nice of lewis not to charge for that...and i had them make the sleeves about 1/3" shorter, which i wish i had not done...they are longer than the eastman luftwaffe jacket, but i've come to the conclusion i like to respect the actual cut of these jackets as much as possible, but making the waist come in a bit was totally justified

if you like the rocker look, you will like that one...about to post pix in a few moments of the eastman on my review thread, and i am amazed (to me anyway) how much different it looks on me than the dominator, tho they are very similar jackets...the eastman luftwaffe totally has an old timey, meaning 40s, look that, nevertheless, is not at all antiquated...the lewis had a wonderful 60s quality to it...both great, just depending on what direction one chooses

as for uswings, i've said it before, i think their mil spec a-2 is the sharpest current made post war milspec a-2 around, i've got one...but this idea that they can jump on the 'luftwaffe jacket' premium maker bandwagon, and not even have the guts to call it a luftwaffe, or even a german pilot jacket, is laughable...i know they might get flack from the some segments of the public, but we all know the love of these jackets is not an endorsement of the philosophies of those who wore them...besides, even though it's known as a luftwaffe jacket, or the hartmann as the one uswings is attempting (poorly) to replicated, they were after all french motorbike jackets to begin with, so stop with the fear of calling it by it's name...even if you need to qualify it with it's prior french heritage

heck, i'm jewish, am as liberal on social issues as they come, but i love the jacket and am fascinated by the heritage...i think the fact that uswings' jacket is such a badly designed hartmann (judging by the pictures of it) goes along with their being afraid to even call it by the name it has garnered in history...

but that's my opinion ;D

ok, now to post those pix on the REViEW thread for my new eastman luftwaffe...yeah, luftwafffe