Diamond Clothing Buco J100 review.

[navetsea]

:deadhorse
maybe if we beat a dead horse long enough,

it would make a amazingly beautiful grain on its hide and a juicy steak :essen:

 

[Superfluous]

Great thread!

Just because the originals had imperfections does NOT mean that one shouldn't worry about imperfections in the (much more expensive) reproductions.

The jackets many here patronize are considerably more expensive than the original vintage pieces. Given the greater expenditure, one has every right to insist upon quality that surpasses the original.

Separately, echoing PWG's observation, there is a difference between an occasional errant stitch and manufacturing defects/shortcuts. With bench made products, an occasional errant stitch is to be expected (although certain bench manufacturers have fewer than others). However, using mismatched components is a different issue.

Not all jacket manufacturers are equally skilled in their craft. For example, Julie at Aero has made many more jackets than anyone else at Aero; therefore, not surprisingly, her skill set is more advanced than others at Aero, and her finished product reflects her greater experience. On the other end of the spectrum, Diamond Dave readily admits that he has made relatively few jackets by comparison. Of course, there is not a direct correlation between the number of completed jackets and one's skill set. Some are more naturally gifted than others. Some learn faster than others. Some are simply more careful and detail oriented than others. Some apply more rigorous standards/tolerances and refuse to accept deviations that are acceptable to others.

With the exception of glaring defects, we rarely notice these imprecisions after the first week or two of ownership. They quickly fade away. I have renovated three houses. During construction, I am highly aware of even the slightest imprecision, and I drive my contractors nuts demanding superlative craftsmanship and details. After the construction is complete, wear and tear quickly takes its toll and the initially perfect finishes quickly become beat to hell. Yet, I rarely notice or care. That which mattered greatly to me during construction fades away into the background. I quickly accept a house rife with dings, dents, scratches, and countless imperfections throughout.

Ironically, one expects -- and perhaps even hopes -- that his/her repro leather jacket will, through wear and tear, develop a patina and appearance worthy of its vintage counterpart. Nevertheless, when it is new, we want it to be perfect -- just like we want our house to be perfect at the end of a renovation, even though we know all too well what will follow.

 

[Benj]

Superfluous, I completely agree with you. It's what I said in what quoted, no? Did I put one two many negatives in there?

 

[Benj]

Butte, not trying to convince anyone to worry about it. I'm just overly sensitive because I feel that in forums too often makers are considered to be above fault, and I feel that vintage character is a lame cop-out.

 

[ProteinNerd]

Great thread!


For example, Julie at Aero has made many more jackets than anyone else at Aero; therefore, not surprisingly, her skill set is more advanced than others at Aero, and her finished product reflects her greater experience. On the other end of the spectrum, Diamond Dave readily admits that he has made relatively few jackets by comparison. Of course, there is not a direct correlation between the number of completed jackets and one's skill set. Some are more naturally gifted than others. Some learn faster than others. Some are simply more careful and detail oriented than others. Some apply more rigorous standards/tolerances and refuse to accept deviations

I'm not trying to be argumentative however my premier half belt made by Julie has one sleeve 0.5 inch longer than the other surely that is a bigger imperfection than some uneven stitching?

 

[Carlos840]

Some are simply more careful and detail oriented than others. Some apply more rigorous standards/tolerances and refuse to accept deviations that are acceptable to others.

To me, this is the problem here... The jacket is really well made, i just think there was a certain amount of "this is good enough" involved.

The first jacket i received actually had even more obvious problems, the lining at the bottom was badly folded and stitched and hung a centimeter beneath the edge of the leather.
The stitching at the end of the sleeves was not great and had multiple thread loops showing.
I mean, just have a look at the first jacket that ProteinNerd received:

How could one look at this and go "yep, i'll send him that, the pockets are great, it all looks good!!!"

To me this just shows a lack of attention to detail. Which is not a massive deal if you don't care about detail, but i paid $1400 for this jacket if you take into account paying customs twice and shipping the first one back, i somewhat care.
I don't care enough not to enjoy the jacket, but i think it's important enough to be mentioned.

 

[Justhandguns]

Ok, for your reference, this is my Size 40 J-100 here. This was one of the earlier jackets made by Dave with a special request of a red lining.


Sorry about my flashy bed sheet........ No problem with pocket alignments.


The lining at he bottom is indeed slightly hung outside the leather, maybe by 1-2mm. This was spotted by my sharp eye parents when they unpacked the jacket for me, possible because of the red lining is easier to spot against the black leather.


The Buco badge is right in the middle of where it should be. I think this is very important as I have seen several top-end A-2 missing this mark by some margins.


I think the argument is still whether the jacket is worth it's price tag.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Sorry Handguns not sure I follow. Do you mean - is it worth the money given the hit and miss nature of the workmanship? If yes then I agree. I wouldn't pay that amount in the first place but if I did and found sloppy work I would be ******.

Mistakes are easier to overlook in cheaper goods and what we think is a mistake or deal breaker in a purchase is clearly subjective. But the bottom line is there is evidence of sloppy work here. What is done next depends on the individual. And I'm sure some people - based on this and other examples - will avoid this product.

 

[Justhandguns]

Sorry Handguns not sure I follow. Do you mean - is it worth the money given the hit and miss nature of the workmanship? If yes then I agree. I wouldn't pay that amount in the first place but if I did and found sloppy work I would be ******.

Mistakes are easier to overlook in cheaper goods and what we think is a mistake or deal breaker in a purchase is clearly subjective. But the bottom line is there is evidence of sloppy work here. What is done next depends on the individual. And I'm sure some people - based on this and other examples - will avoid this product.

Yes, Seb, that was exactly what I meant.

 

[Monitor]

Diamond Dave readily admits that he has made relatively few jackets by comparison.

Well then, if he's still perfecting his skill, why aren't these jackets being sold at an apprentice price tag? If the guy is still learning his skill, I don't want to be paying a premium for a trainee made jacket.

We all at a good laugh at that shoddy cafe racer at Alexander Leathers page, one that was displaying errors similar to the first jacket PN received.

 

[navetsea]

I don't get it why all these jackets don't have a leather lining along/ around the hem line at least up to waistline level, because that way fabric lining will never hangs out, and the most wear of the lining is around the belt line and hip where the lining comes in contact with rougher materials like your jeans and your belt+ belt loops + your wallet + key chain, etc.
can't you ask for that, is there any reason against that?

in all my jackets I asked for it, and it is a great feature, also function as extra kidney panel on the back.

 

[jacketjunkie]

It's probably not as obvious when the jacket is worn open, as these jackets usually are. And there's probably a few hundred bucks worth of materials in that jacket, I guess I'd also try to sell it to cover expenses, but not charge much more than just that and clearly label it as second Quality missproduction.

 

[Carlos840]

It's yours for $699.00 Posted in the USA!

 

[nick123]

There are really two ways of thinking about selling that misaligned pocket jacket.

1) We're not going to sell it because it's an oddball with a rather large error
2) We are going to try to sell it at a discount because it's still a good jacket minus the imperfection.

Both aren't wrong. I see no evil selling it.

 

[Justhandguns]

I don't get it why all these jackets don't have a leather lining along/ around the hem line at least up to waistline level, because that way fabric lining will never hangs out, and the most wear of the lining is around the belt line and hip where the lining comes in contact with rougher materials like your jeans and your belt+ belt loops + your wallet + key chain, etc.
can't you ask for that, is there any reason against that?

in all my jackets I asked for it, and it is a great feature, also function as extra kidney panel on the back.

I think it is the original design of the J-100 jacket, well, more of a racing shirt, that is why the lining fabric runs full length towards the seam of the leather. I would like to see someone with the RMC J-100 with close-up pictures.

 

[dan_t]

A brand is built on many elements.
Quality & consistency of product, service standards, value for money, uniqueness of offering etc all contribute to how consumers value your offering compared to the competition.
Asking comparable prices to the competition automatically assumes you can meet them at the basic standards.

 

[ButteMT61]

The first one with the pockets misaligned would have gone back - 100%
Just so we're clear...

 

[Edward]

Seb, it's because their QCs are immaculate. Not that any of us here are obsessed with those brands though. And thanks to Carlos840, talking about price and product perfection ratio, I think Lewis Leathers are the best. But as always, some of the fellow members think that they are 'sissy' fashion jackets, unfortunately, I must add (Starting to sound like Master Yoda, I am.....).

Jigs, I've not run across that attitude to Lewis. I can't see them being favourably reviewed by the likes of Stu Lost Worlds, but they're ddefinitely serious jackets for all they're lighter than the average vintage-repro MC type. Still got my eye on a Lightning (though I'll be wanting the 1958 spec, with no outer logo and no additional zip pocket on the left sleeve...).

I don't get it why all these jackets don't have a leather lining along/ around the hem line at least up to waistline level, because that way fabric lining will never hangs out, and the most wear of the lining is around the belt line and hip where the lining comes in contact with rougher materials like your jeans and your belt+ belt loops + your wallet + key chain, etc.
can't you ask for that, is there any reason against that?

in all my jackets I asked for it, and it is a great feature, also function as extra kidney panel on the back.

It was very in vogue for folks in these parts when ordering from Aero under Lauder era management to add that feature. It was done away with when Ken came back to running Aero in 2012 as he felt it was unnnecessary (impliedly, I got the impression he felt it was a bit of a gouge on the customer, as they were charging £50 more for it). It also makes it a much more complicated affair to reline a jacket if it wears out (other than where it's protected by the leather strip, obviously). A lot of the motorcycle jacket repros (including Aeros) do have a panel on the back reare of the jacket, as that's where more wear happens when courched over a bike. I've had jackets with and without them - I've not noticed a significant difference either way, tbh. I imagine if I was offered it 'for free', I'd be tempted to go for it, but it's not something I'd consider paying an extra £50 for. [huh]

 

[ButteMT61]

Linings going to the hem will possibly drop in time. I have the leather strip on my Aero HBD, and I wish I had it in the Ventura. Of course if you have a jacket with knits such as an A-2, A-1, etc., it doesn't matter. The Aero looks like new - made in 2011. The Ventura I had to have fixed by JC - which he did for free well after most makers would tell you to take a hike.
The other two remaining jackets - a GW Perry and a LW "A-1" style jacket both have knits and therefore won't have the issue.
It adds weight and heft to the jacket, but it surely keeps the lining from going below the hem, which to me is worth it.

 

[Benj]

To me this just shows a lack of attention to detail. Which is not a massive deal if you don't care about detail, but i paid $1400 for this jacket if you take into account paying customs twice and shipping the first one back, i somewhat care.
I don't care enough not to enjoy the jacket, but i think it's important enough to be mentioned.

Man, I am sorry. Customs is a bitch. Another thing I want to mention people is to not regurgitate (not you, just in general) that Japanese products are overpriced.... If you buy them for what they are truly worth, aka Japanese rrp. My RMC Buco was $1350 shipped to my door.

I think it is the original design of the J-100 jacket, well, more of a racing shirt, that is why the lining fabric runs full length towards the seam of the leather. I would like to see someone with the RMC J-100 with close-up pictures.

What closeups are you looking for?

Also, Carlos, are you ok with the thread turning into what it has? I don't want to contribute more if you'd prefer a new thread on expectations and makers is started (not a bad idea...)