Detroit in ruins

[Foofoogal]

The one and only main drawback on any of these old homes for me anyway is the safety of the neighborhood or lack of or perceived anyway.

I don't care how beautiful a place is if one has to brandish their gun like the ok corral on a nightly basis.
Very sad but true and most of them are in areas as such.
When we first moved here we fell in love with an unreal house and would of bought it but this factor played a huge role.

 

[bumphrey hogart]

It's always the same old thing,where's the money coming from?We had a series on telly here recently which was essentially a rescue a building reality show. People would make a small documentary,giving the reasons they believed their building should be saved and then the public were given the opportunity to vote for the one they wanted to save.It was heart breaking,some of these structures were over a thousand years old and their only chance of survival was if enough people spent their quid and voted for them.
It went all over the country and of course every single one of them deserved to be renovated.There just isn't the money,and that's before you involve any idiots/criminals/politicians.
The only thing you can honestly do is save what you can,depending on your wealth and if that's taking your own 1908 home and restoring that for future generations,or if it's buying an art deco hotel and restoring that as a business,or any of the other billion ways you on your own,or with a few friends could try and save something.We'd never save everything,but if enough of us tried to save a bit I think we would surprise ourselves.
I can't think of any better qualified men and women, with a love for and understanding of, history in all it's facets.All great projects have demanded someone getting off his a**e and getting something done,there are enough people sitting playing their x-boxes or watching soap operas,who else is going to look after the past if we don't?
Sorry if this has gone off-topic and turned into a bit of a rant,it's just one of my pet things.I'm always trying to breathe new life into an old object,with our love of vintage and antiques I'm sure it's what the vast majority of us spend our spare time doing.From taking that old hat or leather jacket and spending the time to make them almost new,the thread recently about spit and polishing,the time and patience to do that properly! If you look at most threads they're about taking the time and putting in the work to create something,very often from something vintage that without the work would have ended up in the bin.
I bet we'd be staggered by the amount of antique and vintage finds that without the hard work by members of the FL would now be so much landfill. I just think if you can make the opportunity to think that bit bigger and be part of a group that helps to save one of these properties,or cars,trains,trams and the list goes on and on,what a wonderful way to demonstrate your love for this old stuff, and what a way to leave something for the future,because let's face it,from all I've seen on this thread,if we don't get involved there doesn't appear to be anyone else queuing to make sure something's left for posterity.

 

[Foofoogal]

Over the time I have been on the lounge and even before my date shown under another name there have been a few threads on this.
Like me posting the link to the older homes for sale I have never understood why there is not a forum here or something for things like this. Many people just do not know about some of the places or homes for sale. I know it is hard to find old homes in regular home listings.
I looked for several years and know what I am talking about. How can anyone buy them if they do not know where they are. There are specialized sites with them for sale but hard to find.

 

[rue]

It's always the same old thing,where's the money coming from?We had a series on telly here recently which was essentially a rescue a building reality show. People would make a small documentary,giving the reasons they believed their building should be saved and then the public were given the opportunity to vote for the one they wanted to save.It was heart breaking,some of these structures were over a thousand years old and their only chance of survival was if enough people spent their quid and voted for them.
It went all over the country and of course every single one of them deserved to be renovated.There just isn't the money,and that's before you involve any idiots/criminals/politicians.
The only thing you can honestly do is save what you can,depending on your wealth and if that's taking your own 1908 home and restoring that for future generations,or if it's buying an art deco hotel and restoring that as a business,or any of the other billion ways you on your own,or with a few friends could try and save something.We'd never save everything,but if enough of us tried to save a bit I think we would surprise ourselves.
I can't think of any better qualified men and women, with a love for and understanding of, history in all it's facets.All great projects have demanded someone getting off his a**e and getting something done,there are enough people sitting playing their x-boxes or watching soap operas,who else is going to look after the past if we don't?
Sorry if this has gone off-topic and turned into a bit of a rant,it's just one of my pet things.I'm always trying to breathe new life into an old object,with our love of vintage and antiques I'm sure it's what the vast majority of us spend our spare time doing.From taking that old hat or leather jacket and spending the time to make them almost new,the thread recently about spit and polishing,the time and patience to do that properly! If you look at most threads they're about taking the time and putting in the work to create something,very often from something vintage that without the work would have ended up in the bin.
I bet we'd be staggered by the amount of antique and vintage finds that without the hard work by members of the FL would now be so much landfill. I just think if you can make the opportunity to think that bit bigger and be part of a group that helps to save one of these properties,or cars,trains,trams and the list goes on and on,what a wonderful way to demonstrate your love for this old stuff, and what a way to leave something for the future,because let's face it,from all I've seen on this thread,if we don't get involved there doesn't appear to be anyone else queuing to make sure something's left for posterity.

I could cry with joy after reading this. Thank you so much for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't find the words :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[rue]

http://www.unitedcountry.com/HistoricProperty/Arkansas/results.htm

$20,000.00 will buy a lovely home.

Fort Smith has many gorgeous old homes like this.

Thank you Foofoo. I didn't know about that one.

There's also this: http://www.historicproperties.com/index.asp

 

[rue]

Over the time I have been on the lounge and even before my date shown under another name there have been a few threads on this.
Like me posting the link to the older homes for sale I have never understood why there is not a forum here or something for things like this. Many people just do not know about some of the places or homes for sale. I know it is hard to find old homes in regular home listings.
I looked for several years and know what I am talking about. How can anyone buy them if they do not know where they are. There are specialized sites with them for sale but hard to find.

I agree that there should be a forum for this. I'll nominate Foofoo since she's been here longer. Whomever you choose, please choose someone. It could be under good and services

 

[Foofoogal]

Yikes, not me but I would be willing to find links to older homes. I am a whiz at research IMHO.
I already help moderate "The Haul" on Auctionbytes though not as busy as it used to be.
I read and joined your blog Rue. Amazing blog. What a neat story about you and your honey also.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

What I find bizarre is the waste. Buildings will always become obsolete or unused and delapidated, but the fact that people and the state simply walked away without clearing them first or at least stripping the useful, valuable or confidential items is just awful. Never mind the beautiful fixtures and fittings, to leave a whole library of books to rot is a crime, especially in this age of austerity. Couldn't they have been redistributed or donated?
And speaking of the criminal, what about the police station? Leaving all that confidential information would just never happen here, it's crazy.
The whole thing looks post-apocalyptic.
I know that pictures never tell the whole story and that most of Detroit will not be like this, but the fact that ANY of it is, is shocking.

My thoughts exactly. I grew up in the suburbs of Cleveland Ohio. My parents luckily had the wisdom to move 25 miles away from the city as they witnessed it's decline and the rise of crime and poverty.
The decline in this country's auto industry, and related industries,is the most direct cause of these problems. Selling it all out to China has only made matters worse. Corporations have prospered, but the majority of American workers have seen their jobs sold out to communist China. Industry has, and always will be the backbone of any nation's economy. America seriously needs to reinvent it's industries, and fast!

 

[rue]

Yikes, not me but I would be willing to find links to older homes. I am a whiz at research IMHO.
I already help moderate "The Haul" on Auctionbytes though not as busy as it used to be.
I read and joined your blog Rue. Amazing blog. What a neat story about you and your honey also.

Awww... thank you Foofoo for checking out my blog I'll be taking it down in a bit as I'm sure you know, but I'll pop back up sometimes

You could totally do it, you know. It's not like it would take much time anyway, since the market isn't exactly hot right now lol

 

[DanielJones]

Afer some thought on this I suppose there is some modicum or reason to abandon some of these places. Public safety being one of them. In the case of the old theaters the fire suppression system and the electrical, combined with age probably made the place a public safety hazard. I'd hate to see a fire break out in an old dry place with a load of people in it. With the churches, well it could have been the thinning attendance of the faithful, which leads to less tithing, in turn means less money for building up keep. So, the place is too hazardous or not worth keeping open because nobody is attending. The libraries and schools are the same thing, lower educations scores lead to less funding, and no money means no up keep. So they close.

What gets me though in the majority of those photos is the abandoned trappings of the building. It's like they walked out an couldn't care any more. The furniture, fixtures, the books and equipment could have been either auctioned off or donated to defer some losses as they walked away. The books in the library could have been donated to local area schools or other libraries that don't have the funds to get more books. They could have been auctioned off as well, and being that it was a public library, the funds could go back into the coffers. The school equipment too could have been donated to lesser endowed schools that don't have the funding to get that kind of stuff bur are still in business to educate.

Now the one thing that really got me was the police station office. Really? They couldn't have boxed it all up and taken it to the new station? Even if there wasn't a new station somewhere, the files and photographs are still relevant & useful. The government agency either was too lazy and didn't care or didn't have enough funds to spring for a Ryder truck and a storage unit? The fixtures of the one theater that Duke Ellington performed at could be recovered, restored and used elsewhere too.

So, in the end, I suppose some building need to be torn down & replaced, but only if it cannot be recovered at all. That is unavoidable. But, to see all the trappings therein go to waste like they do to be destroyed by vandals over time because they sat there too long seems a huge waste. Books can get a new life and use elsewhere, the furniture can be auctioned off & restored to some sheshe hotel, restaurant or other home and business. Why let it rot & mold like that? It seems that there are enough people out there that will and do "pick" this kind of stuff to pass on. Fixtures can be donated to Habitat for Humanity, and it's a tax write off. Plus they will come and remove it & haul it off. The wood work in some of the places can be salvaged and reuse in new modern projects, be they a business building or a residence. The stuff just needs a little cleaning and a careful removal to be reused. i just saw so much in those photographs that could be salvaged and used again. That is the true heartbreaking part. Our disposable society it too willing to throw things away even if it has a story to tell. It makes it all a Lost Civilization.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[sheeplady]

Either let those places become ghost towns or tear then down, clear the land and be done with it. Until next time the cycle begins.

The problem is that we have done this before and lost. Where I live the city launched a huge urban renewal effort in the 1960s and 1970s. Tore down entire blocks- from downtown to the ghetto. What happened?

We got new buildings that stand empty. The rot that our cities are dying from has nothing to do with the cost of renovating old buildings. The taxpayers got robbed to tear down the old buildings and build new- the old could have stood empty just as well. If we cleared every empty building in my current city of Syracuse we would have blocks of empty lots. I would bet money on that 90% of those lots would stay empty for the rest of my life. The suburbs here aren't growing- nothing is growing. This is not something new- the industrial settings have been dying since 1970.

This goes beyond cost- it has to do with deeply ingrained politics and culture. The politicians sold us a dream of "renewal" a long time ago- and I believe they sold us out at the same time.

 

[bumphrey hogart]

As has been touched on earlier,I think a lot of this is about space.In the US there is always somewhere to move to,there's so much room,so if an area becomes unpopular the well to do just move elsewhere.Leaving the poor and the problems behind,unfortunately leaving any history behind too.
In the UK we just don't have that space,so we can't just leave it behind,there's nowhere to go.Also,possibly because we've been around longer as a country,there is a totally different attitude to 'old stuff',it appears,in the US,fixtures and fittings just get discarded.It seems everyone wants new,(obviously the esteemed members of the FL are exceptions),here there is a huge business in recycling everything.We have what's called 'reclamation yards' and these are normally large areas, including big barns or sheds where you can find anything. From tiny Georgian tiles to railway sleepers,old roof slates,oak floor boards,in fact anything you could imagine.One of the funniest I came across was a lions head toilet,this thing was huge,imagine sitting on top of a fully glazed lions head,mane,paws and a snarling face jutting out from between your legs,and the cistern and sink all matched! Unfortunately the bath was missing,what I'd have given to see that,it would have been the size of a swimming pool.
You can find amazing,one-off,beautiful things and with a bit of imagination create real stand out,eye-catchers.Friends of ours bought two railway sleepers, had them planked and made the biggest kitchen table you could imagine,both of the sleepers were well over an hundred years old,the patina and grain was astonishing,what would have happened to them otherwise,left to rot,chainsawed for firewood? If you think about the history of railways in the US it gives it even greater significance,just imagine if you could get hold of a couple of the original east/west line sleepers,what a talking point that would be!
That was what really struck me about the photos,ok so maybe the building was beyond repair but everything in there? Just imagine one of those art deco chandeliers in the right room,you would base the whole theme of the room,if not the house,around it,and the most important thing,it would survive.
My other half and I spend our time renovating all kinds of stuff,from the cheap pine dresser base we got from the local tip that now after a good paint job and antique brass handles looks like it was great,great grandmothers, to the plaster frame got from a car boot,that now,with careful rubbing back with fine sandpaper,painting with an original 18th C colour,now looks like it's been handed down in the family for generations.
The point is,this stuff should at least be given a chance to survive,so it might have to be split up,(few buildings could take all of those chandeliers),but at least it just wouldn't be left to rot,and as I said in my earlier post,if we don't,who will?

 

[LizzieMaine]

This goes beyond cost- it has to do with deeply ingrained politics and culture. The politicians sold us a dream of "renewal" a long time ago- and I believe they sold us out at the same time.

I think that hits it right on the head -- the last couple of generations feel less and less of a stake in the culture that built those beautiful old buildings, so why should they care about maintaining or preserving them? If it doesn't suit the short-term agenda of whatever interest group they're affiliated with, who needs it? We've created a society that's been taught to reject the idea of a unified American culture that we all have a stake in preserving, and we see the results of this cultural fragmentation all around us. "Why should *I* care about preserving *that*? It doesn't mean anything to *me.*"

 

[W-D Forties]

That's the thing Dan - the sheer waste! As soon as a building is empty in the UK the salvegers move in and anything of worth is stripped, from door and windows, fireplaces, light fixtures, flooring, to the smallest light switch. If it's not done by professional teams, Joe Public tends to get in there and do it for them! Architectural salvage is big business here. Is this not the case in the US, or is it something to do with political obstacles to firms who would strip these buildings?
It's really the library and the police station that get me, the waste and sheer disregard for personal information. All of those reports on the floor are someones life (or death).

 

[Foofoogal]

For the record for those across the pond many, many salvage yards exist here in the USA. Even old barns that are torn down bring a premium price for the wood.
America in relationship to the rest of the world is still "new."
The East Coast has much older buildings then say Southern places.
I cannot even imagine places like the OP put not being redone in Texas.
As a dealer I save what I can but on a smaller scale but have known many salvage dealers. Doorknobs etc.

On a personal note: When I went to South Carolina, North Carolina and across to Idaho I could not even believe there were such "old" places in the USA as I was used to Texas.
Then when I went to Scotland I was stunned and I mean stunned. Ancient was the word.
When I went to Hanover Germany the city was mostly newer and very, very well taken care of since they lost a big chunk of it due to WW11 but I did get to go to a very, very old church.
I think the main thing is many truly do not have a reference point of this in the USA.
Truly. We are not used to or exposed to old things and so it is the very same to many as an old pair of shoes in the closet. We eventually want a shiny new pair as everyone else has a shiny new pair.
Hope this makes sense.
------------
I do not read or watch Harry Potter but have seen commercials. Until I went to Scotland I completely thought it was all set design and dark and did not like it at all.
Then in Scotland I was floored as it looked just like this and I was standing on the set and it dawned on me it really was a place that looked like this and I saw then the beauty of it all.
Standing on the corner across from the welcome center in Edinburgh and watching people go to and fro I thought to myself. " Can you imagine people live and see this every single day."
I would go nuts after about 6 mo. due to the darkness and oldness but this is what the people are used to.
It is what people are accustomed to really wherever they live.

 

[MissMittens]

It's true, I used a reclamation company in Virginia to get fllooring I needed to restore a wide-planked Victorian floor, and for door knobs, hinges, etc. I would agree that it's in its infancy compared with the UK though

 

[1961MJS]

The problem is that we have done this before and lost. Where I live the city launched a huge urban renewal effort in the 1960s and 1970s. Tore down entire blocks- from downtown to the ghetto. What happened?

We got new buildings that stand empty. ...

True, but I think what we (forget who else though) were getting at was to demolish the buildings that can't be saved, or shouldn't be saved. The lots would be leveled, you want new building, you build one using YOUR money not the taxpayers.

Later

 

[DanielJones]

That's the thing Dan - the sheer waste! As soon as a building is empty in the UK the salvegers move in and anything of worth is stripped, from door and windows, fireplaces, light fixtures, flooring, to the smallest light switch. If it's not done by professional teams, Joe Public tends to get in there and do it for them! Architectural salvage is big business here. Is this not the case in the US, or is it something to do with political obstacles to firms who would strip these buildings?
It's really the library and the police station that get me, the waste and sheer disregard for personal information. All of those reports on the floor are someones life (or death).

That's exactly it. The salvage of anything of worth within the buildings. Like I said before, the buildings were most likely closed down for safety reasons or lack of attendance within them. But once it is closed down, call the pickers and salvagers. There are plenty of companies like that across the US that would jump at the chance to pull out all the furniture and fixtures. Of course not all items will go to the same buildings but they can still bet used just the same. A custom home builder that uses antique elements and accents would love a chance to go through and pick these buildings. Imagine one of the ornate fireplaces pulled from the old hotels added to a new home. Maybe not the guts of the fireplace but at least the surrounding wood or stonework.

I know of a few places around my County that have used stuff from Hearst Castle. Stuff that was never used. A winery in our area has a parquet ceiling from one of the Hearst Castle that was never used. This place is made with salvaged trappings from European abbys and East Coast Churches. Real vintage stuff went into the construction. About 80% of the building is made from salvaged materials from all over the world. That project gave new life to stuff that would have otherwise been relegated to a trash heap or left to rot where they laid. Plus, it gave an opportunity for work to the craftsmen & artisans that knew how to work with this stuff.

In one of my past homes I salvaged enough bricks from a demolition of an old brick & mortar service station that was demolished nearby to build a complete brick patio. They put up a sign after the structure was knocked down for folks to come and take what they wanted in the bricks before it got hauled off. They gave it a week. I was the only one going over there day after day to load my truck up with bricks. Shame they only gave a week, I could gotten more to create a path around the yard to boot.

I know that buildings will get torn down for one reason or another, be it a safety issue or just too hard to renovate. But just about everything inside that can be salvaged should be given a second chance at a new life elsewhere that can be.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[rue]

I agree that if the buildings can't be saved that they should let people take what is salvagable, but in the case of this house:

they won't let us take anything and we've asked several times. The owners built a huge brand new home up the hill from it and here that one sits rotting with beautiful things inside shakeshead

 

[sheeplady]

True, but I think what we (forget who else though) were getting at was to demolish the buildings that can't be saved, or shouldn't be saved. The lots would be leveled, you want new building, you build one using YOUR money not the taxpayers.

Later

Mike, I do agree with you- we need to have discussions like this. I guess the point I am trying to make is that many of these instances are occuring within larger cultural and political dramas. I honestly do not think that my city could have this discussion now, if they will ever be able to if things continue.

I wrote up a really long response to try to tell you what I mean. But the gist of what I am getting at is that in many of these communities people's basic needs are not being met- I'm talking food, job, roof, safety. Some people feel so disillusioned, so broken, so fearful, and so mistrustful that any discussion of using tax money for any purpose other than basic needs (and even then) would be met with anger. It doesn't matter how good or noble or inexpensive or important or little money it is. And on top of it, these places don't have the tax money to begin with.

And the reality is that no corporation wants to move into the city and do it on their own dime either- rehab or even build new or bulldoze. So for these forgotten places, there is no taxpayer money and there is no private money. And when the US economy improves again, almost everybody will go on their merry way and forget how "the other half"- the Detroits of the US- lives. This is really pessimistic, but I've seen a lot of "interventions" in my life and unless the "interventions" become drastically different, people get really up in arms, or some miracle happens- this is how it will be.


Oh, and totaly unrelated but about taking things- in some parts of the US criminals come and steal your pipes and wiring (from occupied homes). If you are particularly unlucky, they might even try to do it while you are home. Copper is going high, apparently.