Detachable Collars

[JonnyO]

Hello everyone, I apologize if this topic has been posted already. I have recently acquired an old box of Cluett, Peabody & Co. Arrow detachable collars. I don't own any detachable collared shirts but there was more of a significance to buying these, I was born in Troy, NY and have lived just outside the city my entire life. I have a deep love for Troy and its history so I felt I needed to bring these back home from Maryland. After a quick chat with my mom about these she told me that I had a couple of great aunts that worked at the Cluett Peabody factory bringing a deeper meaning to them. On top of that, they are ironically my size.

Now that the babbling is over, here they are, does anyone know how old these may be? The seller said possibly between 1900 & 1920.

 

[splintercellsz]

No idea on collars, but my friend, those are way too cool!!!

~J

 

[Nick D]

They don't look like c. 1900 collars, looks more like the '30s, probably, with the lower stand and the soft roll. They seem to be in very good condition.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Very impressive!

Now you just need to buy yourself some shirts to go with em!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Nice collars. If you look for a shirt you might find some in the UK. I think they are called tunic shirts there.

http://www.tmlewin.co.uk/Regular-Fit-White-Poplin-Tunic-Shirt/34097,en_GB,pd.html?start=1&q=tunic
http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/shirts/collarless-white-poplin-tunic-shirt-sh200.html

 

[cookie]

Hello everyone, I apologize if this topic has been posted already. I have recently acquired an old box of Cluett, Peabody & Co. Arrow detachable collars. I don't own any detachable collared shirts but there was more of a significance to buying these, I was born in Troy, NY and have lived just outside the city my entire life. I have a deep love for Troy and its history so I felt I needed to bring these back home from Maryland. After a quick chat with my mom about these she told me that I had a couple of great aunts that worked at the Cluett Peabody factory bringing a deeper meaning to them. On top of that, they are ironically my size.

Now that the babbling is over, here they are, does anyone know how old these may be? The seller said possibly between 1900 & 1920.

Pure Boardwalk Empire. Nucky would be right at home! Luxire could do the rest aka the actual shirt.

 

[JonnyO]

Thank you for the input and compliments gentlemen. FFF, thanks for the links, they're a big help!

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Nice collars and a nice keepsake, which could readily be worn today with the right shirt.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Are they your size?

 

[JonnyO]

Are they your size?

They are indeed, which really put the icing on the cake. I'll be looking to purchase a shirt from one of the links you gave me over the next couple of days.

 

[Shangas]

High hats and Arrow collars,
White spats and lots of dollars,
Spending every dime,
For a wonderful time...

If you're blue and you dunno,
Where to go to,
Why don'tcha go,
Where fashion sits?
Puttin' on the Ritz...

I did a bit of research on this company for a blog-posting I did once. I doubt collars like that would be newer than about 1940. By the late 30s, early 40s, tunic-shirts (shirts without collars) were really becoming old-fashioned, and shirts with collars sewn on were becoming more common and popular (although personally I think they're detrimental to the shirt).

 

[Jamesbeat]

You probably already know this, but I'll say it anyway just in case it prevents you or someone else having an accident:

A lot of these old shirt collars were made of celluloid, which is extremely flammable, in fact it is chemically related to smokeless propellant used in modern firearms.

I've read that a lot of nasty accidents used to happen with these collars and I don't doubt it.

To give you an idea of how flammable celluloid is, I made a video of me setting fire to some.

People often use heat to determine the composition of straight razor scales. Different substances give off different smells if warmed briefly with a flame.

This is useful for telling the difference between, say, real ivory or bone, but some celluloid was produced to mimic ivory, so this test is not safe (which is why I made the video).

I received a razor that had useless damaged scales, so I lit a fragment of it to demonstrate how easily this stuff catches fire.

Note that even though I dropped it in water, it still wants to keep burning, as it is a pyrotechnic substance (provides its own oxygen during combustion).

If a celluloid collar caught fire while you were wearing it, dousing it with water would likely not work.

Enjoy the fireworks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqoT8qL8Iww&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Shangas]

Old-style celluloid, such as the stuff used on straight-razors, and fountain pens in the 20s-40s, was indeed very flammable. That video is an excellent example of just how combustible it is.

I've heard stories from pen-collectors who destroyed vintage fountain pens like that. They heat the pens up to expand the plastic, so that they can pull the pens apart to repair them and clean them. On the odd occasion, the celluloid will get so hot (from overenthusiastic heating) that it'll just burst into flames!

That said, weren't these old-fashioned collars also just made of cotton, which was then held in-place by just basically drowning it in laundry-starch to keep its shape?

 

[Cobden]

I think Arrow only made cotton collars, and most of the collars ones find nowadays are cotton and date from the post celluloid era.

Still, exploding collar syndrome is worth bearing in mind when looking at such things

 

[Shangas]

If I'm right, celluloid collars were more common in the Victorian era. Would that be correct? For the most part, I believed that collars were just cotton, made rigid with copious amounts of starch.

 

[Cobden]

About 1890's to early 1900's was the celluloid era; it didn't really last that long on account of them being extremely uncomfortable, and I'd image a prejudice against a collar that can give you third degree burns, and I don't think they ever surpassed natural materials in popularity. Early collars were usually linen, but cotton gradually became more and more popular as the Victorian age moved on

 

[Jamesbeat]

I've heard stories from pen-collectors who destroyed vintage fountain pens like that. They heat the pens up to expand the plastic, so that they can pull the pens apart to repair them and clean them. On the odd occasion, the celluloid will get so hot (from overenthusiastic heating) that it'll just burst into flames!

Did I mention that I used to collect fountain pens?
Believe me, it doesn't take much heat!
Touch the stuff with a flame, and it goes up.
I lost a very nice pen to this when I was new to collecting, in fact that's how I knew about the risk with straight razor scales

Good to know that the later collars were just starched cotton, I had a nightmare vision of a forum member immolating themselves with a collar and a cigarette so I thought I'd warn people!

 

[Shangas]

I learned about it in a documentary on the Victorian era. For a brief period at the end of the 19th century, celluloid collars were popular (or were at least manufactured...dunno about popular!), but that this had pretty much died out as soon as it arrived, in favour of the more traditional starched cotton collar that most people kept wearing, well up to the 1930s and 40s in some cases.

And no, you didn't mention, James, that you collected fountain pens. But yes, those early celluloid fountain pens, while they're VERY pretty...are extremely flammable! I've heard more than my fair share of disaster stories where people have incinerated their prized antique fountain pens through bodgey restorations.

I use hot water to expand the plastic. NEVER dry heat. Hot water will get the plastic wet and warm. Dry heat will just set the damn thing on fire!

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I'd concur that these are likely to be 1940s in date, from the shape, and almost certainly cotton. According to Esky they achieved something of return to vogue in the mid 30s.

 

[Evan Everhart]

I personally Prefer celluloid collars to either linene or linen, or starched cotton! They never lose their shape, last forever, are hard-wearing, and impossible to stain. Just stay away from fires! Hah! But yes, I recall reading an Edwardian article on Firemen being banned from wearing celluloid collars after some....Ahem, "mishaps".....I do personally own and wear all of the above listed varieties of detachable collars, so I know from first hand experience.