Depressed by the modern world

[AtomicEraTom]

I think the term 'living in the Golden Era' is subjective.

I grew up out in the middle of nowhere on a farm, all the people in my life were people who had lived through the Golden Era. Everybody was old farmers, my parents were the youngest adults for miles. All our neighbors were born between the turn of the century and the 1940's.

My whole life was influenced by these people and what they taught me. I worked on their farms, spent time with them socially, sometimes, even moreso than with my own parents. Those values, those beliefs, and that way of life was and is what I believe in.

I don't know if you know much about rural America, but things don't change as rapidly as they do in the cities. My childhood was much like every other farm kid's childhood in generations prior. The only thing perhaps more modern is that we had the 'farmer five' as it was called. That was all the TV channels available over the rabbit ears.

Though the Golden Era is just a date in text to many folks who can't see past such confines, in many places the world hasn't changed so much from 75 years ago, and why should it? That life still works, if you're willing to work with it.

Does the modern era truly suck all that badly compared to others, or are we all just escapists and non-conformists? Based on how many of the people posting in this thread never lived for a second in the golden era, I could say the latter hypothesis is most appropriate. Surly there are issues in the modern world that were much less of a concern back in those days (like the growing decline in family life and values, for example), but the Golden Era definitely had its own share of major problems that I'm sure nobody on this forum would want to experience if they had the opportunity to travel back in time to those days.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And that's all it's ever going to be. You can't have quality if it's fast and cheap, and if you want quality, it's gonna be neither fast, nor cheap. The thing is, nobody KNOWS what quality is anymore, so manufacturers can bullshit their way through life screwing people over. We're living in a world of cheap "Made in China" junk that breaks the moment you take it out of the box.

Exactly so. And it's not that China couldn't build quality as well as America once did -- it's that nobody *wants* quality -- real quality -- anymore. A world based on evanescent technological gimcrackery has no place and no room for quality because they know and you know that overpriced smartphone you're slavering over today will be tossed in the trash or at best in the back of a drawer once the new model comes out in a year or so. Some call that progress, but not me. That's being led around like a monkey on a string, not progress.

I have a Western Electric telephone sitting on my desk as I type this, made for the Bell System -- the single most enduring technological force of the twentieth century. It was built in 1929, but some of the individual components used to build it date back fifteen or twenty years earlier. It was slightly modified by the Bell System in the late 1930s with a new-style transmitter and receiver, but it was designed to be modifiable -- in the field, with no tool more sophisticated than a flathead screwdriver -- rather than replaced and discarded. And I can pick up the receiver and hear a dial tone and dial a number and talk to whoever I need to talk to. It's every bit as functional and useful and practical for me as it was the day it was built -- if I wanted to be bothered, I could, within about fifteen minutes time, using nothing but that same flathead screwdriver, attach a touch-tone button pad to this phone and have access to all the automated switching features that are such a big deal today, on a phone built in the first months of the Hoover Administration. I could even attach it to a dial-up modem and use it to connect to the Internet. As it is, I am connected to the internet right now using the same copper-wire-pair telephone line system that was first installed on my street in 1905.

That's how I define "quality," and a civilization that could create such a device was truly progressive: it got the maximum use out of its resources over the greatest period of time while making it possible to easily "upgrade" that device to reflect the evolution of the base technology. And yes, I believe, with no apology whatever, that this approach was smarter, better, and more practical in every way than the approach that exists today.

 

[bulldog1935]

no reason to be depressed, and I disagree with flat absolutes.
I know many people who want quality, include myself among them, and there are many quality-made American products, and Japanese and European products as well. They tend to be in internet boutiques and are hyped on bulletin boards just like this one. http://www.chapmanbags.com/
Hand made fly rods, benchmade reels, knives, canvas bags for any need. Bicycles. http://www.rivbike.com/
http://www.acornbags.com/products.html
Firearms.
http://www.ebbets.com/
I bought a couple of fungo shirts from Ebbetts field. They were custom-made by Duofold, they're merino wool lined with linen, are comfortable beyond words, and priced to compete directly with Duofold merino wool long johns, but are a better product for several reasons.
Hats and clothing - hyped right here.
It's out there.
There is mass consumption, and there is quest for quality. And they can live together.
Pursue what interests you.
And don't be depressed.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The main difference is that if you want quality today, it's an expensive boutique item for the elite, not an everyday item of commerce for we of the hoi-palloi. You could go online and get a fine, durable bicycle for a few thousand dollars. Or, in the world I was born into, you could go down to the Western Auto and get one for thirty bucks. You can go online and spend fifty dollars for a pair of custom-made imported virgin wool socks, when you used to be able to walk into your local downtown department store and get a pair of sturdy woolen union-made-in-the-USA socks that would last you for years for less than a dollar. Quality was the default, not an expensive upgrade. Cheap junky merchandise was sold on the "off price" counter, not at the front of the store.

I'm not depressed, just sick of the betrayal of what I grew up believing in.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

no reason to be depressed, and I disagree with flat absolutes. ...

And don't be depressed.

Your first statement is a contradiction.

Your last statement is a demand.

The stuff in between is your opinion.

 

[bulldog1935]

I bought my daughter a very nice Chinese made bike for $450 - it was inexpensive enough and nice enough that I could afford to make it special for her, and have added nice components each Christmas since

When you bought a $30 bike, you also bought a $12,000 house.

All things being equal, we're getting better products now for the same CPI.
if you want to do the math:
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/

I guess I don't have patience with women and depression, and outgrew my nostalgic angst at 19

I do business with people all over the world. I'm not stuck with what my local Craigs Hardware offers, though I give them as much business as I can.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I guess I don't have patience with women and depression, and outgrew my angst at 19.

19 year olds lack patience and tend to say things like the above.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I guess I don't have patience with women and depression...

"We've come so far."

Seriously, a working-class family fifty years ago could afford to outfit its children with quality union-made-in-the-USA bicycles with real brazed frames. I owned one. It's still in my garage, as straight and usable as it was when it rolled off the line. A working-class family today is in no position to spend $450 on such an extravagance. So they end up settling for the spot-welded Chinese junk from Wal Mart that'll snap in half as soon as the kid runs it thru a pothole. I've seen it first hand. I've also seen the thousand-dollar smartphones that break when you drop them on a carpeted floor -- and the blase look of "hmph, whatever" on the face of the kid that dropped it.

Not convincing me, sorry.

 

[tridentine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuHPQwp4BcA[video=youtube;vuHPQwp4BcA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuHPQwp4BcA[/video]

Bishop Fulton Sheen: "Hope for a Wounded World".

By the by, This is not an evangelizing or proselytizing method.
Rather this message can apply to everyone.

Please give the good Archbishop a try.

Hope.

 

[bulldog1935]

yeah well, the glass is half full, and the retro glasses are rosy beyond words.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It isn't "retro" if you actually lived it.

 

[bulldog1935]

we can get into politics here about whether the unions hung themselves before or after Jack Welch opened pandora's box.
socio-political issues and how they impacted family economics in the 60s and 70s
and we can deal with today and make our personal choices - I don't watch tv shows, I don't buy all the consumer crap most consumers want.
I provide for my daughter as best as I can, encourage her, entertain her, and be the best example of integrity that I can for her.

I still ride my 37-year-old lugged bike made in England in the same country that produced Lance Armstrong's cooling system.
I was happy to be able buy something that my daughter could do the same for a realistic price.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I absolutely agree with you on one important point: there's no point in letting the modern world depress you. If you're depressed, you're letting it win -- you're taking whatever they shove in front of you. Depression is not helping you cope. Depression is not fighting back.

What you do need to do, if you don't like the way things are, is get angry. You've got to get *mad,* not Howard Beale arm-waving mad, not radio talk show moron mad, not dress up like an idiot and march around in the streets mad, not pointless "stick it to the man" mad, but focused, directed, intelligent anger -- a healthy kind of anger driven by a determination not to get swindled, not to accept a dish of crap and think it's good for you, the kind of anger that will give you the firmness and the determination not to be plowed under, and to fight back however and whenever you possibly can.

Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change. -- Malcolm X

 

[Feraud]

Being depressed is a good sign that something is wrong. Best thing to do is try and identify the problem and fix it. There is the opportunity to ignore as much of society as we find depressing.

All things being equal, we're getting better products now for the same CPI.
if you want to do the math:

Adjusted cost aside can you identify these "better" products? I've not experienced better quality in terms of clothing, shoes, kitchenware, tools, office supplies, electronics, and other miscellaneous doodads.

As was mentioned quality today is the exception not the norm. Here in the U.S. we pay good money for garbage and have to pay significantly more for quality. That adds up for the average working person trying to raise a family.

 

[bulldog1935]

I'll let you do your own math, but will answer you with just one example.
when was the last time you adjusted the points and carburetor on your automobile.
Tasks that used to need monthly attention on autos are non-existent now.
You can drive your car now 100,000 miles with only changing the oil - not even changing the plugs.
The quality of an automobile being produced today is light years ahead of 55 Chevys, in spite of nostalgia.

Are 55 Chevys cooler? Of course.

Being depressed about something beyond your control is a waste of life.

 

[sheeplady]

I guess I don't have patience with women and depression, and outgrew my nostalgic angst at 19

Being depressed about something beyond your control is a waste of life.

This is a very unkind thing to say... to all sorts of people.

Quite frankly, some people here think life was better back then and want to go back. Some people here think life is better now and want to stay here. Some people here think there are good things from back then and good things from now and want to stay here. It's all a matter of opinion. You're not going to change anybody's viewpoint by arguing with them on this point. You have a right for your viewpoint and for giving reasoning for your viewpoint, just like everybody else. But arguing why everyone else is supposed to think like you is not going to change anybody's mind. When it's clear that it won't, continuing to argue your point and make dismissive comments (like the ones above) makes you look like you don't respect other people's opinions. Believe me, everybody here has a viewpoint on this and you're not going to change any of our minds.

 

[bulldog1935]

there ain't no getting back

hey, I fish rods and reels from 1915 (and people send them to me from all over the world to repair), I don't want to fish anything made today, but I don't want to go back.
That would be self-destructive.

and I promise not to quote you out of context

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'll let you do your own math, but will answer you with just one example.
when was the last time you adjusted the points and carburetor on your automobile.
Tasks that used to need monthly attention on autos are non-existent now.
You can drive your car now 100,000 miles with only changing the oil - not even changing the plugs.
The quality of an automobile being produced today is light years ahead of 55 Chevys, in spite of nostalgia

I drove 300 miles this summer in my '41 Dodge with one of the pistons in the oil pan. Try that in a Toyota.

As far as the adjustments and maintenance go, well, my family made a good living for forty years doing those adjustments and that maintenance -- just one of the many things that contributed to a dignified, contented working class.

 

[Feraud]

Yep, there are certainly cars that require less tinkering than in the past. It seems a moot point in a society that wouldn't dignify itself to keep a car for over 100k. It's ironic the infrequent tinkering our vehicles require is offset by the mentality to ditch them after a few years.
I read an article recently that new car ownership is at "record high levels" at around a whopping 6 years. Second hand cars aren't held as long.
If one thinks too hard about this disposable mindset you can almost find it depressing.

 

[bulldog1935]

never wanted a Toyota.
But summer before last, drove 2020 miles in 10 days in my F150 hauling 5 people and a popup up and down mountains and over deserts.
In 1941 you wouldn't have made that trip without several repair stops, and here we are a year and two seasons later, and my truck still hasn't been in the shop yet.

My uncle made a good living with a service station, and while I'm sure your family was contented over the fact that everyone with an automobile was beholden to them, everyone with an automobile was discontented for the very same fact.

speak for yourself. My prior GMC drove 240,000 (and is probably still driving in Mexico)
170,000 on my alfa romeo