Democracy

[LizzieMaine]

 

[Ticklishchap]

white people already largely run everything. Old white men, to be more precise. Very rich old white men, too. But who gets to say who's white in the first place? The Irish weren't counted as white when they began arriving in large numbers before our civil war.

I have made a number of visits to the US over the years and my impression, as a European visitor, is that American society is in essence matriarchal and that the culture is dominated by white women, to such an extent that it is barely possible to escape their influence.

 

[MisterCairo]

I have made a number of visits to the US over the years and my impression, as a European visitor, is that American society is in essence matriarchal and that the culture is dominated by white women, to such an extent that it is barely possible to escape their influence.

Lizzie, your thoughts?!

 

[BlueTrain]

I have made a number of visits to the US over the years and my impression, as a European visitor, is that American society is in essence matriarchal and that the culture is dominated by white women, to such an extent that it is barely possible to escape their influence.

I would say you have a mistaken impression.

Ironically, the Western states were historically more liberal in some ways and the first state to give women the right to vote was Wyoming, in 1890. All of the states that gave women the right to vote before WWI were western states.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Damn, where's *my* chocolates?

 

[Fading Fast]

Damn, where's *my* chocolates?

Two thoughts:

1. That is a very funny scene
2. I can't believe this thread hasn't been shut down (I haven't responded recently because every response I've had, no matter how ameliorated, would have been political even if masked a bit).

 

[LizzieMaine]

It helps to have a sense of humor about it all.

"Mad Mad Mad Mad World" is one of my favorite pictures, and I can watch it over and over again and it's just as funny as the first time. All the great schtick comics of the 20th Century in one package. Now that's democracy.

 

[BlueTrain]

That's democracy? Well, I don't know. They used to call something like that a "laff riot." Maybe even "zany."

 

[Fading Fast]

It helps to have a sense of humor about it all.

"Mad Mad Mad Mad World" is one of my favorite pictures, and I can watch it over and over again and it's just as funny as the first time. All the great schtick comics of the 20th Century in one package. Now that's democracy.

I run hot and cold on it - sometimes I love it, sometimes it has too much slapstick in it for me (all depends on the day, my mindset), but what an outstanding cast. And I will never think of the letter "W" without thinking of this movie.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And it does show that this idea of America being a hag-ridden matriarchy is a very old comedy trope -- you'll find that idea being expressed over and over again in popular culture far back into the 19th Century, in stage acts, in plays, in comic strips and humorous short stories, in radio and television and movies, and in cartoons. Here's another choice example.

The thing is, though, is that the studios that produced these productions, and the directors who directed them,and the writers who wrote them were entirely male.

 

[Fading Fast]

And it does show that this idea of America being a hag-ridden matriarchy is a very old comedy trope -- you'll find that idea being expressed over and over again in popular culture far back into the 19th Century, in stage acts, in plays, in comic strips and humorous short stories, in radio and television and movies, and in cartoons. Here's another choice example.

The thing is, though, is that the studios that produced these productions, and the directors who directed them,and the writers who wrote them were entirely male.

It's a trope I've missed. I remember that scene from "It's a Mad..." and always thought the point was that the Brits had no idea about America - that the matriarchal nag/hag thing was some crazy British idea showing how much they didn't understand their breakaway spawn.

 

[Paisley]

I would say you have a mistaken impression.

Ironically, the Western states were historically more liberal in some ways and the first state to give women the right to vote was Wyoming, in 1890. All of the states that gave women the right to vote before WWI were western states.

My grandmother bought her own homestead in Wyoming--must have been in the 1920s. I agree the interior West is more libertarian than the rest of the US.

 

[BlueTrain]

My grandmother bought her own homestead in Wyoming--must have been in the 1920s. I agree the interior West is more libertarian than the rest of the US.

As it happens, my (almost) former boss, who semi-retired a couple of months ago, is married to someone from Wyoming, who still owns a ranch there. He, however, grew up in what was Northern Rhodesia. I think they met in Vienna.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I will say though, that the point about "white women" is not too far off the mark, to my thinking. Bourgeois feminism has a real problem with addressing the concerns of working-class women and women-of-color, and this is something that only seems to get worse as the years go by. Second-wave feminism of the 1970s was overwhelmingly devoted to the concerns and issues of college-educated middle-class white women to the exclusion of practically all else. Those of us who grew up in that period and found ourselves working in factories or behind store counters found very little support in the feminist communities of that period, and that attitude has only ossified as the women of that generation have grown older: if you're not "breaking glass ceilings," if you're just struggling to get by, you're an afterthought, or you're not a thought at all.

Intersectionality of gender, race, and class isn't just a modern academic buzzword, it's a reality that feminism is going to have to confront as the boomer-bourgeois feminists depart the scene and a new generation takes their place.

 

[Paisley]

I'm a college-educated middle-class white woman, and I don't even understand what present-day feminists are talking about. Most articles I read about the problems of women of my socio-economic background make me wonder where they find these people. Liberal-arts educated trust-fund babies in New York City? ETA: I guess I'd be in a different socio-economic class, being a gringa from Denver.

 

[2jakes]

“(1)Mrs. Violet Anderson claims to have smoked her first on may 19, 1910...
in the attic of her grandfather’s farmhouse.
(2) Cynthia Irene Bell behind the old barn out back on Jan. 4. 1912. It was cold.
(3) Myrna F. Phillips confesses she smoked March 4 or 5, 1911, out in the country,
where only a squirrel and a bird could see her.
The others offered “no comment”.
Now there’s a new slim filter that’s all your own ladies.”

 

[LizzieMaine]

Whenever I see that ad campaign I want to kick the Boys right in their "T-Zone."

As far as women's issues are concerned I recommend reading Mary Inman's "In Woman's Defense" (1941) and Elizabeth Hawes' "Why Women Cry" (1943). Both pre-date the bourgeois second wave, and both really focus on issues facing working-class women, issues that are still waiting to be resolved. Inman's work, especailly, has been widely misrepresented by bourgeois feminists -- the article on Wikipedia about her is a joke, written by someone who obviously hasn't actually read her work, let alone understood it.

 

[2jakes]

Whenever I see that ad campaign I want to kick the Boys right in their "T-Zone."

I had reservations posting .

Kidding aside...
Grew up with five sisters & what they’ve had to go through in life.
Not sure if I could’ve survived it in one piece.

 

[BlueTrain]

There was an interesting article published in the local paper the other day written by a novelist. The point of the article was that, essentially, nobody really understands much of anything about any of the lower, working classes. The working class people are mostly invisible, although to some extent, that's probably a cultivated point of view.

The irony and ridiculousness of the issues surrounding women working outside of the home should be obvious to anyone with eyes. Except for the point made above. Working people are virtually invisible, especially women, apparently, unless they are on stage and less than fully dressed. Even then they aren't people; they're things, like toys.

Women have always been in the work force and in the view of some working men, factory work is women's work. Oh, they didn't work the foundries and steel mills but they worked in clothing factories and textile factories. So did children, by the way. Chances are, many would also have been recent immigrants. Because of that, it may not be so surprising that men objected to women doing jobs previously done exclusively by men, like mining, truck drivers and even in the armed forces.

 

[scotrace]

There are so many problems in American society that will have to be addressed at some point it's pretty daunting. But in the main, the problem of what to do in a democracy with too many people and too few jobs will probably take up much of the latter 21st century gab. I heard a South Korean economist speak about this coming problem recently. He said that increasingly, most jobs need no human to perform them, leaving a large body of people with nothing to do for income. It isn't that they are lazy, or uneducated, or from a cycle of poverty; their condition is entirely due to external forces. And they should have the possibility of living a decent life.
Some kind of state-guaranteed, minimum income for all may be an inevitable part of the future world.
As it is, the poor are shunted off into the margins and brutally punished, economically, for daring to be so. It's as though there must be Something Wrong With You if you are trying, with varying success, to make ends meet on too little income, no matter how hard you're working.
The poor pay more out-of-pocket for everything. The young woman with the 15 year old wheezing automobile, barely kept running, just trying to get to her minimum wage job and back every day, gets slapped with a catastrophic bill to bring the car into emissions compliance. The prosperous neighbor with the sweet new Buick is left alone. The family who can barely, barely keep the lights on by seasonally running behind in their account balance, has to pay more than their better-off neighbor for power. Late fees are an added tax on the poor, and an easy revenue stream for everything from banks to cell phone companies and they serve no purpose but making a miserable person's life worse.
The poor pay more for shoes, buying the only cheap garbage they can afford and replacing them at a clip that adds up to a greater expense than a good pair. But they have no choice but to spread the expense over time. Same for tires. There's a successful business segment which exclusively sells tires with "a little tread left" for $10-20 to people who can't pop for $100 or more each when they blow out.
These are things we rarely discuss, and they're grossly unfair to people who are already fighting to stay alive. Then we point and blame when they end up hauled before the courts for this or that nuisance infraction-- and made poorer with unpayable fines. Then they lose auto insurance because it's pick this or that to pay, whichever will keep the meddling government off their back for now.
Health insurance is a pipe dream. The biggest worry about a serious illness is who will get stuck paying the funeral expenses.
They get sucked into "the system" faster than any other segment, filling out endless forms and facing piles of paperwork to keep creditors at bay or try to get help. That means their privacy in invaded much more deeply than is true for others as they surrender questionably necessary information that puts them very much On The Grid and in the crosshairs.
And don't get me started on the Prosperity Gospel peddlers. Live and pray right for cash and prizes from Jesus. The bitterly cruel flip side is that those who struggle are in their situation because they're sinful.
Grrr... I need more coffee.