Degree inflation

[prof500]

The job title thread made me think of "degree inflation" -- where they require higher and higher degrees to qualify for a job interview, even if the degree has nothing to do with the work involved. I know there are "justifications" like a degree shows work ethic, etc. But often it's because the hiring manager is too lazy to look at people individually, and just wants a way to screen out whole masses of applications at once. I think this is bad for society.

The worst example I saw was when I was living in Ohio -- they were advertising for someone to work in the sewers, *4-year college degree required*.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Oh yeh!!!...

The airline industry is rife with this sort of thing. A 'major' airline here in the Phoenix area (based elsewhere) has just assigned their Phoenix and Tucson operations to a "person" who has a degree in Home Economics of all things!!!... passing up others with decades of practical, hands-on, industry related experience. This sort of thing is the rule rather than the exception!

-dixon cannon

 

[ClassicIsBetter]

Though I am paying a nice chunk of change for a Masters in Accounting, I must say I agree with you. Some fields require Masters or higher. I have a Bachelors in Business, but that has not gotten me anywhere. I have 2 theories about that. 1) Hearing impaired. No company hires a "disabled" (though I'm as close to normal as normal can be) unless they receive a tax break or some other benefit. People like me are utterly useless, despite a 142 IQ and a proven work ethic. 2) Very shy. Very difficult for me to become aggressive in the case of job hunting. I barely make enough money to survive (less than $30k a year). All of my non-college degree friends make far more than I do. It's a joke, it's more about who you know.

 

[Rosie]

I touched on this in another thread. There seems to be higher requirements for positions these days. My brother is an officer and has been one for about 15 years. When he started, though he had his bachelors, he didn't need it at all, just had to be able to pass the written, psychological and physical exams. Now, that same position, with a lower starting salary mind you, requires at least 60 college credits. [huh] Will this really make someone a better officer? I don't know. Teachers who have been teaching for over 10 years had far less requirements than my generation of educators does. Every year the requirements increase. Are we better teachers than they? [huh] It's getting a bit silly actually.

 

[Lady Day]

I have two and in my field experience trumps the paper. But often these places want 4+ years of exprience for entry level positions

On craaaaakkk!

If I hav 4+ years of exprience under my belt, Id want WAY more than what an entry level gig paid.
No one wants the task of training and dealing with a mistake here or there. They want the person to come in and start craking out the work without training. Its so so sad.


LD

 

[Samsa]

I think that this phenomenon is due to two things. First, that college degrees are just not worth as much - objectively. I am too young to have gone to college in the earlier part of the century, but my perception is that an undergrad degree in the 40's or 50's required more rigorous study than it does now - probably because back then, less people were able to afford college, so the incoming freshmen were wealthier (and more educated). Now, college kids have to both complete their studies, hold part time jobs (most of them), and all the while deal with the stress and emotional baggage of "dating" (not exactly the same thing that it was in the 1940's or 50's).

The second reason is related to this - since so many people have college degrees (especially those whose parents were boomers), they automatically mean less. It used to be that a college degree set you apart from the rest - now that's not the case. In order to stand apart from the crowd, you need a graduate degree.

 

[Rosie]

I think that this phenomenon is due to two things. First, that college degrees are just not worth as much - objectively. I am too young to have gone to college in the earlier part of the century, but my perception is that an undergrad degree in the 40's or 50's required more rigorous study than it does now - probably because back then, less people were able to afford college, so the incoming freshmen were wealthier (and more educated). Now, college kids have to both complete their studies, hold part time jobs (most of them), and all the while deal with the stress and emotional baggage of "dating" (not exactly the same thing that it was in the 1940's or 50's).

The second reason is related to this - since so many people have college degrees (especially those whose parents were boomers), they automatically mean less. It used to be that a college degree set you apart from the rest - now that's not the case. In order to stand apart from the crowd, you need a graduate degree.

I *kind of* agree with you but, only about 20% of Americans hold a four year degree, even less hold a graduate degree. When broken down into specific areas it becomes less of the population ex. only 4% would have a degree in english or math or science, etc.

I do think people were better educated years ago even when they had comparable degrees.

 

[Rosie]

I have two and in my field experience trumps the paper. But often these places want 4+ years of exprience for entry level positions

On craaaaakkk!

If I hav 4+ years of exprience under my belt, Id want WAY more than what an entry level gig paid.
No one wants the task of training and dealing with a mistake here or there. They want the person to come in and start craking out the work without training. Its so so sad.


LD

This is sooooooo true, I have the BFA and MFA (which is a terminal degree as you know) and it makes no bit of difference. That's why I'm doing what I do now.

 

[carebear]

Of course, a high school diploma from a public school sorta implied that the bearer read and write at a 12th grade level back then too, and the general curricula covered a bit more.

It's dicey whether that bachelor's degree can be counted on to guarantee that same competence in math and English anymore.

 

[Quigley Brown]

Being a photojournalist experience out in the field will beat a Masters any day.

 

[RaasAlHayya]

Carebear, I think you hit the nail on the head. It seems that degrees are requiring less and less competency, so employers are having to compensate. Bleh.

--Leslie

 

[Pilgrim]

I think it's a mixed bag. I've lived most of my life in university towns, and the educational level skews quite high in those areas - all a high school diploma will get you is a job flipping burgers.

Having been in higher ed for 26 years at three Division-1, Research-1 universities, I don't see that college level study has gotten measurably easier than when I was an undergrad in the late 1960's and early 1970's. However, that was a period of considerable societal change and my college experience may not have reflected the experience a few years earlier.

I know that the faculty I interact with have sound quality expectations for their students in terms of competency and performance. Unfortunately, there are some areas in which some faculty feel they have had to back off their expectations. One of them is writing. Kids are not coming out of high school with writing and language skills comparable to those of 30-40 years ago, that's for sure. My personal belief is that this is not due to mass failure of public schools, but the fact that kids don't read very much anymore. Reading is such a basic element of building familiarity with language that failure to read automatically compromises language skills.

OTOH, the kids I see going through high school (one daughter graduated last spring, the other graduates next spring) have math skills at much higher levels than kids in my generation. They're doing stuff as sophomores that was only found in optional, high-achiever senior classes when i was in high school. But from what I hear, this is not true across the US - some districts are weak in this area.

My belief is that nothing the schools do can replace a culture and social structure that doesn't value or support learning. If parents and the culture around kids don't advocate and support their acaddmic progress, schools cannot compensate - but they become the whipping boys for the failures of the culture and society in which they exist.

As for grade inflation - there is probably some, but there is also the fact that although less than a quarter of the US population has a Bachelor's, there are so many more people now than there were 30 years ago that this still means there is a big pool of people holding Bachelor's degrees. If I had the option between hiring someone with and without a Bachelor's, all other things being equal, I'd take the person with the degree. They are probably better rounded, have a broader world view, and a wider range of competencies.

 

[Jack Scorpion]

We still got it better than Japan. There, all that matters is what school you go to and the highest degree you get. It doesn't even matter what skills or area of expertise you have. You go to a good school and you get hired by some random company and get paid millions without interviews or experience required.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I *kind of* agree with you but, only about 20% of Americans hold a four year degree, even less hold a graduate degree.

Degree inflation is an excuse for employers to pay their employees less.

.

 

[Rosie]

Degree inflation is an excuse for employers to pay their employees less.

.

How so?

 

[ClassicIsBetter]

How so?

Well, since still more people have degrees than not, if employer requires one and you don't have a degree, you could still get the job if they like you. They'll just pay you less since you didn't "meet the requirement." I've only been out of college 5 years though, I'm sure the more experienced guys will give you a better answer. That is my opinion though. For the record, I think I get paid about the same as those around me, despite being the only one with a 4 year degree.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

That's exactly what I was hinting at, Classic, only without your excellent explanation. Thanks

.

 

[Paisley]

The funny thing is, I have an engineering degree and I make a lot more money doing word processing--secretarial work, no college degree required--than I did in most of the engineering jobs I had in the late 90s. (I wasn't the only engineer who applied for this job.) I wouldn't get out of bed now for what they paid me.

Employers put a lot of engineers on contract, cut their wages in half and eliminated their benefits back then. They laid them off as soon as jobs were finished. Now they complain that they can't find enough engineers to come and work for them.[huh]

 

[ClassicIsBetter]

The funny thing is, I have an engineering degree and I make a lot more money doing word processing--secretarial work, no college degree required--than I did in most of the engineering jobs I had in the late 90s. (I wasn't the only engineer who applied for this job.) I wouldn't get out of bed now for what they paid me.

Employers put a lot of engineers on contract, cut their wages in half and eliminated their benefits back then. They laid them off as soon as jobs were finished. Now they complain that they can't find enough engineers to come and work for them.[huh]

My father is an engineer also. What kind of engineer though? My father got his Electrical Engineering degree from Georgia Tech, his Masters in Bus. Admin from University of South Carolina. He is a regional sales manager for a company that sells research and analytical equipment. He makes barely into six figures. Though his job does not have much, if any, elecitrical engineering aspects to it (according to him), you'd need that degree to work with that kind of equipment. Depends on what career path you take in reference to your degree. However, I think it's very safe to say that most people do not enter the field they majored in.

 

[Rosie]

Wow, thanks, never thought of it that way. Almost no one I know, self included is working in the area they majored in but for most of them, self included, it just sort of happened that way. They couldn't get a job in psychological field or whatever so went on to business management or photography or etc. and stayed.