Dr H
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,007
- Location
- Somerset, UK
Hello Everyone - I recently posted this in VLJF (see there for more images)
I recently bought an original civilian ‘A-2’ from John Chapman and have just managed to take some photos in reasonable light to show here. Some of you may have seen it before as it’s included in JC’s jacket CD. I often trawl old posts and recalled reading that John had offered this jacket (along with several GW jackets) to offset costs of materials back in December 2008.
John's original post read:
‘Original Doniger Civilian A-2 (42) Light russet capeskin:
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/civvie_doniger/
I've had this jacket for a while. It's made of a softer leather like capeskin, or cabretta, and it has the exact shape of a WWII Doniger contract A-2. The snaps are civilian, but the Talon zipper is like a WWII model, though with light tape. There is a small snag in the leather under the name tag. The jacket has seen much use, but the lining is quite solid with no holes. The cuffs have some small holes along the folded edge, and the waistband has a tiny one in the back.
Chest under arms: 23.5"
Back under arms: 23.5"
Front along zipper: 23"
Back shoulder width: 19.75"
Sleeve length with cuffs: 27"
Price: $350.00 with shipping additional by location.’
The GW jackets went quickly, but this one wasn’t mentioned again. At that time I was very new to the hobby and thought it would be too big for me (I hadn’t twigged that a wartime 44 equated to a modern 42). When I obtained a copy of JC’s CD saw the jacket illustrated there and determined to follow it up. I know that John habitually takes a wartime 46 (presumably a modern 44) and the jacket looked just a touch snug on him so it might be worth an e-mail. In short, John still had it, the measurements looked well for me, and the deal offered was a very, very good one.
The photographs were taken this morning outside under cloudy skies. The jacket is notionally russet in colour, but looks similar to worn examples of the mil spec goatskin in sunlight, darker almost mid seal in poorer light.
A private purchase/wartime example of this jacket (bearing pilot’s wings and rank stripes on the epaulettes) is shown in ‘Suit Up’ and, according to the author, the jacket was made in 1942. That example is much paler/faded tan/brown, showing evidence of wear (and incidentally is similar in colour to the original capeskin A-1 shown on Gary Eastman’s website). Importantly, that example does carry its original white manufacturer’s label – McGregor Sportswear – with a red/green script and border. The more observant will see that this one is incorrectly tagged as a Bronco (John added this when he obtained the jacket as it was lacking its label). As we’ve already read in bjoy’s excellent summaries of manufacturer’s histories (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9856&hilit=doniger) on VLJF, McGregor Sportswear was a commercial trading name for David D Doniger. bjoy reports that ‘The US trademark database has the McGregor name as being first registered in 1938 with Doniger reporting on the application its first use in commerce as February, 1923. (That ought to be definitive, but other sources say it was used even earlier.)’ I bought (and eventually sold) a GW Doniger 42-21539-P as a daily wearer and so became very familiar with the pattern and this civilian jacket is essentially identical to that with some differences that I’ll highlight. In fact, although the GW Doniger needed to be a size larger for me to wear comfortably (and not in a trim military fit), I regretted not having it still, as was pretty comfortable. It is a reasonably wide (comparatively round-) shouldered pattern, with wide armholes, rotated/inset sleeves and a roomy, longer torso.
The first important difference is that the mil spec 42-21539-P jackets were made exclusively in goatskin – there is also a no name W535ac29971 that is believed to have been produced by Doniger in 1942 and Andrew Swatland (Roughwear) has compares these two jackets in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6438&hilit=doniger); in contrast, the civilian jackets are capeskin. Having owned jackets in horsehide, goatskin (several) and capeskin, I’ve become a firm convert to the lighter hide. It has all the appeal of goatskin (without the stronger odour).
For a fuller description of the Doniger pattern, see http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2detail2.html.
Of the two mil spec designs, this appears to resemble W535ac29971 most closely: the collar ends are typical Doniger: more pointed than most designs, but broader than the 42-21539-P design, which suits me fine). The sharply angular pocket flaps are also marginally more shallow here (again very similar to the W535ac29971 design with rounded pocket edges).
Otherwise, the features are near identical: there is no collar stand, Dot nipple snaps at collar and pockets (with uncovered snaps to the rear), a hanger attached with an open box stitch. The epaulettes are of moderate width with box stitching at the shoulder following the curvature of the collar ) the top shoulder seam is placed centrally under the epaulette). The way in which the jacket is constructed with inset, rotated sleeves, the top stitching resembles USN jackets (quarter inch offset from seam joint). The hardware is slightly different: the mil. Spec. jackets have black anodized riveting, whereas this does not. Both military contracts (42-21539-P and W535ac29971) have bell Talon zippers. In the civilian version, the zipper is a double marked, rectangular ‘Hershey bar’ Talon.
The knits are very unusual: a two-tone olive/brown wool that I’ve not seen before – similar to the knits that JC uses for some of his jackets but subtly different. The cutter’s label – still retaining traces of a varnish/shiny surface has survived and I’ll keep the pocket snapped shut and unused to preserve it.
For the record, the statistics of the jacket:
Civilian McGregor/Doniger
Weight = 1.2 kg
(this compares with 1.0 kg for an ELC A-1 in capeskin, 1.2 kg for a goatskin Perry A-2 and 1.36 kg for a horsehide Perry A-2). Although it’s actually heavier than the A-1, it feels lighter as the design is more relaxed.
Shoulder width = 48 cm
Pit-to-pit = 58 cm
Front length = 59 cm
Back length = 64 cm (from top of back panel to bottom of waistband)
Arm length = 69 cm (including knitted cuff)
Epaulettes = 17 cm
Otherwise, pictures speak for themselves – the grain is just incredible, especially the back.
The jacket will be used as a regular daily wearer (sleeves need to be shortened slightly for me, but I’ll lose no sleep over this as it doesn’t have a military heritage). It’s in very good, sturdy condition – some small nicks here and there (which will be stabilized using a suitable flexible leather cement if the skin is lifting) and a couple of moth holes to darn, but otherwise perfect fit. The zipper works smoothly and the lining is in almost mint condition. JC is sending over a Doniger/44 label for me to sew in – if a McGregor label/cloth jacket with the label ever came up I’d replace it, but I’ll be happy to replace the Bronco label and use it as is.
It is the most comfortable jacket that I’ve ever worn, bar none (I simply don’t feel that I’m wearing a jacket) – even more so than my A-1. I recently sold both my wartime Perry A-2s (I don’t show jackets, they all get regular wear) and I was feeling increasingly uncomfortable about this and I’m glad to say that this is a suitable salve to my conscience! It still retains its J Chapman name tag – I don’t normally tag my jackets, but I’m going to leave it on: it’s suitably weathered and part of the jacket’s history now.
I recently bought an original civilian ‘A-2’ from John Chapman and have just managed to take some photos in reasonable light to show here. Some of you may have seen it before as it’s included in JC’s jacket CD. I often trawl old posts and recalled reading that John had offered this jacket (along with several GW jackets) to offset costs of materials back in December 2008.
John's original post read:
‘Original Doniger Civilian A-2 (42) Light russet capeskin:
http://www.goodwearleather.com/photos/civvie_doniger/
I've had this jacket for a while. It's made of a softer leather like capeskin, or cabretta, and it has the exact shape of a WWII Doniger contract A-2. The snaps are civilian, but the Talon zipper is like a WWII model, though with light tape. There is a small snag in the leather under the name tag. The jacket has seen much use, but the lining is quite solid with no holes. The cuffs have some small holes along the folded edge, and the waistband has a tiny one in the back.
Chest under arms: 23.5"
Back under arms: 23.5"
Front along zipper: 23"
Back shoulder width: 19.75"
Sleeve length with cuffs: 27"
Price: $350.00 with shipping additional by location.’
The GW jackets went quickly, but this one wasn’t mentioned again. At that time I was very new to the hobby and thought it would be too big for me (I hadn’t twigged that a wartime 44 equated to a modern 42). When I obtained a copy of JC’s CD saw the jacket illustrated there and determined to follow it up. I know that John habitually takes a wartime 46 (presumably a modern 44) and the jacket looked just a touch snug on him so it might be worth an e-mail. In short, John still had it, the measurements looked well for me, and the deal offered was a very, very good one.
The photographs were taken this morning outside under cloudy skies. The jacket is notionally russet in colour, but looks similar to worn examples of the mil spec goatskin in sunlight, darker almost mid seal in poorer light.
A private purchase/wartime example of this jacket (bearing pilot’s wings and rank stripes on the epaulettes) is shown in ‘Suit Up’ and, according to the author, the jacket was made in 1942. That example is much paler/faded tan/brown, showing evidence of wear (and incidentally is similar in colour to the original capeskin A-1 shown on Gary Eastman’s website). Importantly, that example does carry its original white manufacturer’s label – McGregor Sportswear – with a red/green script and border. The more observant will see that this one is incorrectly tagged as a Bronco (John added this when he obtained the jacket as it was lacking its label). As we’ve already read in bjoy’s excellent summaries of manufacturer’s histories (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9856&hilit=doniger) on VLJF, McGregor Sportswear was a commercial trading name for David D Doniger. bjoy reports that ‘The US trademark database has the McGregor name as being first registered in 1938 with Doniger reporting on the application its first use in commerce as February, 1923. (That ought to be definitive, but other sources say it was used even earlier.)’ I bought (and eventually sold) a GW Doniger 42-21539-P as a daily wearer and so became very familiar with the pattern and this civilian jacket is essentially identical to that with some differences that I’ll highlight. In fact, although the GW Doniger needed to be a size larger for me to wear comfortably (and not in a trim military fit), I regretted not having it still, as was pretty comfortable. It is a reasonably wide (comparatively round-) shouldered pattern, with wide armholes, rotated/inset sleeves and a roomy, longer torso.
The first important difference is that the mil spec 42-21539-P jackets were made exclusively in goatskin – there is also a no name W535ac29971 that is believed to have been produced by Doniger in 1942 and Andrew Swatland (Roughwear) has compares these two jackets in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6438&hilit=doniger); in contrast, the civilian jackets are capeskin. Having owned jackets in horsehide, goatskin (several) and capeskin, I’ve become a firm convert to the lighter hide. It has all the appeal of goatskin (without the stronger odour).
For a fuller description of the Doniger pattern, see http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2detail2.html.
Of the two mil spec designs, this appears to resemble W535ac29971 most closely: the collar ends are typical Doniger: more pointed than most designs, but broader than the 42-21539-P design, which suits me fine). The sharply angular pocket flaps are also marginally more shallow here (again very similar to the W535ac29971 design with rounded pocket edges).
Otherwise, the features are near identical: there is no collar stand, Dot nipple snaps at collar and pockets (with uncovered snaps to the rear), a hanger attached with an open box stitch. The epaulettes are of moderate width with box stitching at the shoulder following the curvature of the collar ) the top shoulder seam is placed centrally under the epaulette). The way in which the jacket is constructed with inset, rotated sleeves, the top stitching resembles USN jackets (quarter inch offset from seam joint). The hardware is slightly different: the mil. Spec. jackets have black anodized riveting, whereas this does not. Both military contracts (42-21539-P and W535ac29971) have bell Talon zippers. In the civilian version, the zipper is a double marked, rectangular ‘Hershey bar’ Talon.
The knits are very unusual: a two-tone olive/brown wool that I’ve not seen before – similar to the knits that JC uses for some of his jackets but subtly different. The cutter’s label – still retaining traces of a varnish/shiny surface has survived and I’ll keep the pocket snapped shut and unused to preserve it.
For the record, the statistics of the jacket:
Civilian McGregor/Doniger
Weight = 1.2 kg
(this compares with 1.0 kg for an ELC A-1 in capeskin, 1.2 kg for a goatskin Perry A-2 and 1.36 kg for a horsehide Perry A-2). Although it’s actually heavier than the A-1, it feels lighter as the design is more relaxed.
Shoulder width = 48 cm
Pit-to-pit = 58 cm
Front length = 59 cm
Back length = 64 cm (from top of back panel to bottom of waistband)
Arm length = 69 cm (including knitted cuff)
Epaulettes = 17 cm
Otherwise, pictures speak for themselves – the grain is just incredible, especially the back.
The jacket will be used as a regular daily wearer (sleeves need to be shortened slightly for me, but I’ll lose no sleep over this as it doesn’t have a military heritage). It’s in very good, sturdy condition – some small nicks here and there (which will be stabilized using a suitable flexible leather cement if the skin is lifting) and a couple of moth holes to darn, but otherwise perfect fit. The zipper works smoothly and the lining is in almost mint condition. JC is sending over a Doniger/44 label for me to sew in – if a McGregor label/cloth jacket with the label ever came up I’d replace it, but I’ll be happy to replace the Bronco label and use it as is.
It is the most comfortable jacket that I’ve ever worn, bar none (I simply don’t feel that I’m wearing a jacket) – even more so than my A-1. I recently sold both my wartime Perry A-2s (I don’t show jackets, they all get regular wear) and I was feeling increasingly uncomfortable about this and I’m glad to say that this is a suitable salve to my conscience! It still retains its J Chapman name tag – I don’t normally tag my jackets, but I’m going to leave it on: it’s suitably weathered and part of the jacket’s history now.
